DOA5LR "I'll Try My Best!"Naotora Ii Gameplay Discussion

[HoodsXx]

Was in the lab and found some setups. The 4H+K at max range is kinda really risky so I found other alternatives. Being

4H+K 6H+KK (FT)
4H+K 4K2K (Psuedo FT)
4H+K PP2K (Psuedo FT)

While I was looking into this move more I found an uunholdable.

4H+K 4H+K ~ 236K (Unholdable)*This only works if you tech to the side*

I'll post more stuff later.

Edit: Forgot to mention this as well. Would be an amazing option to train people's wakeups.

9K by itself let's you get 2K (not grounded) and set up a WUK situation being that 6K4KK will beat out mid WUK's and if they start using lows because you trained them to. You can now use 6KKK to go over the low WUK situation. Enjoy Oh! Before I forget. If they tech 2K leaves her at 0 as does 9P (empty jump).

 

[Nikotsumi]

The 9K/KK6K tech is pretty good, and if they tech before the 2K she's actually left at +5 frames!!!
The distance is also good enough to make you always connect a K/4K/6P afterwards.
Also, if you don't wanna deal with WU kicks after the 2K hits, you can still 2K again (+16) or 2P (+23) to force them up, though 2P creates way too much distance and the advantage is kinda wasted.
This is gold.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Ok, since Naotora has no guaranteed stuff outside of PP2K2K, I was searching for a good way to make her end up behind the opponent since she has some good guaranteed stuff from it.

I've been messing around with 9P (not 9PK or 9P2K) vs wake up kicks from a long while now and what I found out is this :
If you preempetively jump (right before you see the oppoenent move to do a WU kick) she'll end up behind the opponent without her being back turned, giving her enough advantage to guarantee P+K into a 6KKK6K launch, sometimes she'll still be back-turned, but if notice it fast enough and quickly press H, P+K or the 6K string will be guaranteed anyway.
Now how does it work? only if she's near her downed opponents of course, and their feet have to (partially) face the sides (otherwise that little jump wouldn't be enough to cover the necessary distance to get behind them). She has to basically be glued to them, hence why I always do multiple mini-dashes before doing 9P. So it can only work after :
T (not sure on this one since I rarely use it) - 4T - K6KK - all of her holds except for the mid P and low K ones. It's a must for me after her low P and mid K hold, it almost always works with these one, might be due to the positioning or something.

Now, this are all the possible cases I've experienced :
-If you jump too late... nope, this shouldn't never happen since you have to jump before the wake up kick. (she'll get stunned btw.)
-If you jump way too early and they do the WU kick, you'll get floored, fine.
-If you jump and they delay the wake up kick, you can still block/hold it.
-If you jump and they wake up without the kick, you'll be back at neutral.
I'm not saying this is 100% reliable or anything, because it's not, though I'm surprised it's working quite a lot of times, even more than I expected.
I've always thought that her 9P was a good move, but now I can say that the jump is arguably one of her best tools, if not the only one.

Edit : It was a pain to reproduce it on the AI because of its instat WU kick, but here's what it looks like.

 

[KasumiLover]

Ok, since Naotora has no guaranteed stuff outside of PP2K2K, I was searching for a good way to make her end up behind the opponent since she has some good guaranteed stuff from it.

I've been messing around with 9P (not 9PK or 9P2K) vs wake up kicks from a long while now and what I found out is this :
If you preempetively jump (right before you see the oppoenent move to do a WU kick) she'll end up behind the opponent without her being back turned, giving her enough advantage to guarantee P+K into a 6KKK6K launch, sometimes she'll still be back-turned, but if notice it fast enough and quickly press H, P+K or the 6K string will be guaranteed anyway.
Now how does it work? only if she's near her downed opponents of course, and their feet have to (partially) face the sides (otherwise that little jump wouldn't be enough to cover the necessary distance to get behind them). She has to basically be glued to them, hence why I always do multiple mini-dashes before doing 9P. So it can only work after :
T (not sure on this one since I rarely use it) - 4T - K6KK - all of her holds except for the mid P and low K ones. It's a must for me after her low P and mid K hold, it almost always work with these one, might be due to the positioning or something.

Now, this are all the possible cases I've experienced :
-If you jump too late... nope, this shouldn't never happen since you have to jump before the wake up kick. (she'll get stunned btw.)
-If you jump way too early and they do the WU kick, you'll get floored, fine.
-If you jump and they delay the wake up kick, you can still block/hold it.
-If you jump and they wake up without the kick, you'll be back at neutral.
I'm not saying this is 100% reliable or anything, because it's not, though I'm surprised it's working quite a lot of times, even more than I expected.
I've always thought that her 9P was a good move, but now I can say that the jump is arguably one of her best tools, if not the only one.

This sounds really good!! I think this also happened to me once, when me and Render were doing one of our Naotora mirrors a long time ago, I tried to do a WU kick but he 9PKed over it(I was like ) and he P+Ked me and he tried to go for a different set up. But I didn't realize you could still be forward facing!

What I usually do which I probably need to stop is after I 9PK above the opponent I go for BT 6P>6PK>6PK4K or just BT 6P>6PKK on heavier opponents or even BT 6K>236K~K, but now I'll try to get that standing forward facing tech in my muscle memory since it sounds better for open space areas.

I've also come to the conclusion that 6H+KKK is one of Naotora best CH attacks, sure it's good for the low but the first hit will never really get a NH stun if you being realistic. It's great in stuns especially after 6P and 3P since it'll instantly knock them down and guarantee the rest of the string, and it's great to do over running K and running P since it leaves you at -8 and you got a follow up to watch out for.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Doing 9PK to go above the opponent is not a bad thing to do generally, assuming they whiffed the WU kick, sometimes you could get a guaranteed BT4P, however it depends on each different scenario. Advantage varies, sometimes she's at advantage, other times she's at disadvantage. The thing about 9P and variations (9PK, 9P2K) used on wake up is that they're not that reliable cause it heavily depends on the situation.
They're still good though imo, they give her something that not everyone only a few characters in the roster can do.

 

[KasumiLover]

Guys I think I found something actually USEFUL this time for Naotora!! This isn't a glitch or anything, check this out, details are in the description:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/dead-or-alive-5-last-round-naotora-4kk-tech.12471/media

Also i discovered something else, you know how PP and KK jails and how an opponent can easily just try to jab you before the third hits of both? Well at least for the 9 framers, you can perform a sort of tick hold immediately if you think your opponent will try to 5P you after one of the jail strings for an easy 72 damage hi counter hold! No timing! :-D

 

[KasumiLover]

Don't use her 8P anymore, 7P has 0.01 more reach so I think it's personally a bit better to use. It's still weird

 

[Nikotsumi]

Don't use her 8P anymore, 7P has 0.01 more reach so I think it's personally a bit better to use. It's still weird

Wait, do you mean the 8P that comes out if you input 7P has (slightly) different properties? It's definitely weird, it makes me wonder if that's the case even with inputs such as 7K/1K/1P.

 

[KasumiLover]

Wait, do you mean the 8P that comes out if you input 7P has (slightly) different properties? It's definitely weird, it makes me wonder if that's the case even with inputs such as 7K/1K/1P.

I tried those and their inputs are always the same range, idk if it has different properties but it has a bit more 0.01 reach to it which I think means it's better to use the 7P input over 8P, I know it sounds like a very tiny miniscule range change but you never know I guess when you'll need that extra range. It just seems strange that it has better range but maybe they purposely did it for when she backs up since she doesn't have any actual retreat options like Kasumi and Mai's 7P, just her 9P which is more for approaching

 

[The Spine]

So, my approach of Naotora is that she is completely fundamentals based in the sense that she focuses on staying at a r1f distance (somewhat) and mostly wants to whiff punish. However, given how DoA can be so volatile, maybe that just isn't the correct one? What should be our goal given the lackluster tool set?

 

[KasumiLover]

She imo can play at long range, mid range and even close range. Close range is risky since she only has her 11i high kick and 11i jab to keep up and she does have her 4K which is 12i and beats out 12i low punches, plus the delayed 4KK can avoid some stuff too. I also like 4P+K a bit more since it can avoid some jabs

 

[The Spine]

Isn't her jab slower than most of the cast's? Also, long range?

 

[KasumiLover]

Her jab is slower than a good number of the cast but it's one of her few moves she can use up close safely, plus her second jab after that is 10i so if you do it up close it jails like her KK but if you do it from a distance you're a psudeo 10 framer

And yeah she has her ii stance and her running attacks she can use that cover a decent distance from long distance, and you can also blend her run into her 9P fairly seamlessly

 

[Nikotsumi]

Naotora can fight at close range, but it heavily depends on the match-up. Against slow or not so fast characters? Sure, but I do not recommend to fight up close againsts characters who have a i9 jab and i11 mid. I also avoid to fight up close those who have special sidesteps and characters with good crushes like Helena.
Oh and you could also mess with those who use punch parries too, as her fastest moves are kicks.

As for long range, I disagree. What does she have for this situation? 236K, 6KK, and arguabily 9KK? Unfortunately all of them are linear mid K's that are slow as hell, two of them are unsafe too. They can pretty much just block and wait for you to do these moves and punish accordingly.
Her stance doesn't cover that much distance outside of IFC P, which is imo a good move because it launches and it's safe, however it's still one of her slowest move. I use her stance at lot, but at mid range (a bit further than the r1f distance).
Didn't count IFC P+K/running P because that move is 95% risk, 5% reward.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Got back into DOA and found an interesting oki tech with Nao.
K string without the last K (KKKKKKK) both in neutral and juggles > 2P/2K. It eliminates wake up kicks.

Downsides :
-You can't just mash the string during juggles like one usually does (or at least I do).
-You'll be at disadvantage if they tech. It's better to use 2P since she'll be only left at -2 VS the -9 off 2K.
-You have to hit them again (2P/2K) to actually tech them up.
-By not finishing the string you lose the knockback, which is something you generally want if you're playing as Naotora.

In short : It's not as good as the 9K/KK6K > 2K setup lol.

 

[KasumiLover]

Ooh that's nice! I never thought it could be used that way! Is 2H+K possible with it too because I know if you use that for KK6K or 9K they'll be forced up without having to hit them twice as long as they don't tech up themselves even tho that's unlikely since most players I would assume wouldn't do that because they expect you to finish the string and do KK6KK or 9KK

 

[Nikotsumi]

Nah, 2H+K is not possible here, unless you want to take a WU kick in the face xD
With 9K/KK6K it's possible because of the little bounce the move causes.

 

[The Spine]

I really feel that if Naotora had a backflip and a 7K, I'd be much happier.

 

[KasumiLover]

I really feel that if Naotora had a backflip and a 7K, I'd be much happier.

I think her final strike from KKK4K or 6KK4K or KKKK6K should be her 7K, it would be a high GB that can be used as a launcher or a GB like Leifang. And a backflip that looks visually like 4H+K would be cool too

 

[The Spine]

I think her final strike from KKK4K or 6KK4K or KKKK6K should be her 7K, it would be a high GB that can be used as a launcher or a GB like Leifang. And a backflip that looks visually like 4H+K would be cool too

I want a dumb 7K like Christie's.