The Art Style and Graphics Discussion

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
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Yeah, but it's art design is less inspired and more generic/boring. I would say Horizon has better visuals.

Well, visuals are a subjective matter after all...
In what way do you find Horizon's visuals less generic/boring? Are you talking about the fantasy and sci-fi influences and settings, whereas Uncharted is influenced by normal life and real life settings? Because both art styles are actually similarly stylized. None of them is going for that gritty realism, that for example Hellblade is going for. Both Uncharted and Horizon are imo very colorful, bright and have that sort of soft CGI look. Many actually already started complaining that Sony's first party games start looking samey stylistically, may that be a coincidence or deliberate.

Edit: Also after watching that gameplay demo myself again. Alone the animations during gameplay in Uncharted are unmatched in any other game. So smooth, life-like and full of variation. Hardly any jarring transitions or repetitions.
 
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Brute

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I cringe every time someone feels compelled to state that something is subjective. Saying that Hellblade is "gritty realism" when it has flashing strobe effects, floating neon symbols and astral ghost people is subjective in defining what constitues "realism." "Oh, but what I meant is that if those things were in the world(/mind if you're an edgelord), that's the look Hellblade was going for." Well, then one could argue that Uncharted is what the "gritty real world" would look like if people were prettier and there wasn't as much dust on everything. At the end of the day, someone can always dispel any input by relegating it to subjectivity, but it's a worthless effort since obviously the point of a discussion is to present one's own perspective, which is inherently subjective. So yes, it's my subjective opinion that Horizon has better visuals than Uncharted, just as it's my subjective opinion that Nioh has better visuals than Life of Black Tiger.

Horizon had a vision; Uncharted has a budget. Horizon brought something new to the table that was imaginative and inventive. Uncharted tries to impress you with shit you've already seen a million times but now polished with superior tech. I'm fully aware someone could pull out a concept art book for Uncharted and point to every button on Elena's shirt and how it was all carefully considered by some art school grad with half a head of rainbow-colored hair, but you can do that for pretty much every game (at least with that budget), and if the result is that it looks pretty plain then it doesn't really matter. And to me, subjectively, Naughty Dog's games always look very fucking plain.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
After temporarily snagging an xbox one S from my uncle I decided to try out the one and only 100% exclusive it has that i was interested in

Sunset Overdrive

Its a damn fun game and feels like a mix of jet set radio and saints row 4. Its amazing looking only held back by its 900p res

Pics
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Argentus

Well-Known Member
Horizon had a vision; Uncharted has a budget. Horizon brought something new to the table that was imaginative and inventive. Uncharted tries to impress you with shit you've already seen a million times but now polished with superior tech. I'm fully aware someone could pull out a concept art book for Uncharted and point to every button on Elena's shirt and how it was all carefully considered by some art school grad with half a head of rainbow-colored hair, but you can do that for pretty much every game (at least with that budget), and if the result is that it looks pretty plain then it doesn't really matter. And to me, subjectively, Naughty Dog's games always look very fucking plain.
all of this. Realism doesn't impress me anymore. At all. Art Style and design are more important nowadays, imo.

being "realistic" was only an important thing when we were just starting to get the tech to pull it off. nowadays its just the standard, and there's not "huge leaps" anymore. Just minor details being fleshed out as we go along.

also i can vouch for the art grads with raindbow colored hair haha. I ran out of money before I could become a grad myself, but people I went to school with STILL look like, well, they went to an art school.


And to me, subjectively, Naughty Dog's games always look very fucking plain.
well except for Crash Bandicoot.

I don't even REMEMBER any other games by naughty dog off the top of my head. i mostly associate them with Crash.

After temporarily snagging an xbox one S from my uncle I decided to try out the one and only 100% exclusive it has that i was interested in

Sunset Overdrive

Its a damn fun game and feels like a mix of jet set radio and saints row 4. Its amazing looking only held back by its 900p res

Pics
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yeah that's one of the very few Xbone exclusive games i'd actually want to play (the other being the Rare collection). Looked like a lot of fun.

Also, i don't know if she's a default or character creator, but that chick looks awesome.
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
all of this. Realism doesn't impress me anymore. At all. Art Style and design are more important nowadays, imo.

being "realistic" was only an important thing when we were just starting to get the tech to pull it off. nowadays its just the standard, and there's not "huge leaps" anymore. Just minor details being fleshed out as we go along.

also i can vouch for the art grads with raindbow colored hair haha. I ran out of money before I could become a grad myself, but people I went to school with STILL look like, well, they went to an art school.

"All of this"?

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Yet you were the one going on again and again in this thread how Horizon looked too "realistic" in style and "boring" to you. You do realize that Brute just argued Horizon had some kind of "vision" is even "imaginative"?

Here Brute literally just lols at you when you can't even notice that Horizon looks superior to Andromeda.
The Art Style and Graphics Discussion
The Art Style and Graphics Discussion

On another note:
WWE2K18 proudly presents its new lighting and skin shader engine:


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Yeah, the waxy look from before is mostly gone, but the models are still weirdly off. This is a prime exapmple of the the uncanny valley, I guess. Trying to look as realistic as possible, still failing, and looking very creepy in the end.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
Nahh that's just WWE wrestlers in general lol

They actually resemble their real counterparts this time at least lmao Randy and Lesnar look wrong in the last game
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Nahh that's just WWE wrestlers in general lol

They actually resemble their real counterparts this time at least lmao Randy and Lesnar look wrong in the last game

Do you by chance know in what framerate these games run on console? 30fps or 60fps? If you disregard the uncanny valley effect of the models, the game looks actually pretty nice. High polygon models, great texturing, shading and lighting and a lot going on in the background of the stages with all the fully modelled people cheering. Does imo a lot more and better than what Tekken 7 manages to do with its low polygon characters, blurry textures and sterile backgrounds. A reason could be that Tekken runs in 60fps and these wrestling games only run in 30fps though.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Yet you were the one going on again and again in this thread how Horizon looked too "realistic" in style and "boring" to you. You do realize that Brute just argued Horizon had some kind of "vision" is even "imaginative"?

Yes, I personally find Horizon boring as well, that's well established at this point, get over it. Nothing about it (other than those pics of like underground cyber cities or whatever that was) caught my interest.

What I was agreeing with, is that "realistic" isn't a selling point in and of itself anymore. If the end result is still boring, it really doesn't matter how technical and high end the graphics are.

anyways, back on topic. Still playing Digimon, managed to get Mastemon, and god DAMN she looks cool. graphics themselves are Vita level, but the DESIGN is amazing imo


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kind of annoyed because the wings are too "solid piece" and those green and blue bits are supposed to be glowing light, as per the original art

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Chapstick

Well-Known Member
I've never seen a character with a half angel and half devil theme before
Do you by chance know in what framerate these games run on console? 30fps or 60fps? If you disregard the uncanny valley effect of the models, the game looks actually pretty nice. High polygon models, great texturing, shading and lighting and a lot going on in the background of the stages with all the fully modelled people cheering. Does imo a lot more and better than what Tekken 7 manages to do with its low polygon characters, blurry textures and sterile backgrounds. A reason could be that Tekken runs in 60fps and these wrestling games only run in 30fps though.
Since my bf plays the WWE games I've seen a fair share of them, they run at 60fps. I wouldn't give them too much credit though because these games aren't technical marvels by any means. A lot of move animations look bad and most of the wrestlers who aren't big names/are dead (can't face scan a dead person) look like crap compared to people like Triple H or The Rock. Audience members are also noticeably low quality. I think all the budget in the 2K WWE games goes to the faces of a handful of currently popular wrestlers and the family members of the guy who owns the company :/

What I find kind of amusing is Triple H never looked like himself in the wrestling games until he married the CEO's daughter and became COO
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
I've never seen a character with a half angel and half devil theme before

Since my bf plays the WWE games I've seen a fair share of them, they run at 60fps. I wouldn't give them too much credit though because these games aren't technical marvels by any means. A lot of move animations look bad and most of the wrestlers who aren't big names/are dead (can't face scan a dead person) look like crap compared to people like Triple H or The Rock. Audience members are also noticeably low quality. I think all the budget in the 2K WWE games goes to the faces of a handful of currently popular wrestlers and the family members of the guy who owns the company :/

What I find kind of amusing is Triple H never looked like himself in the wrestling games until he married the CEO's daughter and became COO
Sarcasm?

It's not the first time Digimon did this, as she's basically a female counterpart to Lucemon Falldown Mode
latest

hhnng I could go on a huge spiel on all the classical references incorporated into that character. I'm a HUGE mythology buff, it's why I still love Digimon so much.


(I'm trying to get both, but stat requirements to get lucemon are INSANE, and Mastemon requires fusing two digimon together, so it's really, really, tricky to get both of them at the same time, until I can recruit Ladydevimon to the city because one of the NPCs lets you use other NPCs for fusion instead of your own. Not as powerful as fusing your own, but eh)
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
hhnng I could go on a huge spiel on all the classical references incorporated into that character. I'm a HUGE mythology buff, it's why I still love Digimon so much.

Oh, please do!

In the meantime, here's a few great shots of Hellblade's photomode:

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Digital Foundry by the way did a graphical/technical analysis of the game for PS4 and PS4 Pro:


It runs in 1080p resolution at 30fps (unlocked) on standard PS4, the PS4 Pro offers two modes: 1440p at 30fps (unlocked) and 900p at 60fps (unlocked).
The high resolution mode on Pro is nice and crisp and comes close in look to the PC version, the high framerate mode however looks very blurry, worse than on the standard PS4 even. I guess that's the price for 60fps. It's a little weird that all framerates are unlocked. Locked 30 or locked 60 would have felt more stable and smoother.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
The option to give the choice of res or fps is what the standard of all pro support should be. I switch between both modes using high res mode during exploration and cutscenes while switching 60fps during combat.

either way its a damn amazing looking game.

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Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I don't know, but Assassins Creed Origins looks imo pretty mediocre to bad... :/
Here's 18 minutes gameplay following one quest:


This is running on the XBOneX by the way, so it should already look better than what one will get on the standard XBox and PS4.
Animations, facial expressions and lipsync are terrible. The characters feel devoid of character and frankly any life. They creep me out. ME Andromeda immediately comes to my mind...
Apart from that the character models also look unattractive and the environments just look okay...
Yeah, most of this gameplay is set in the desert, but if you are in a desert and there's not much to show, they usually crank up the visuals in another way to still make it look interesting. Like really cool sand effects or lighting etc. This game will definitely not have a Horizon Zero Dawn type of wow-factor graphically.
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
I don't know, but Assassins Creed Origins looks imo pretty mediocre to bad... :/
Here's 18 minutes gameplay following one quest:


This is running on the XBOneX by the way, so it should already look better than what one will get on the standard XBox and PS4.
Animations, facial expressions and lipsync are terrible. The characters feel devoid of character and frankly any life. They creep me out. ME Andromeda immediately comes to my mind...
Apart from that the character models also look unattractive and the environments just look okay...
Yeah, most of this gameplay is set in the desert, but if you are in a desert and there's not much to show, they usually crank up the visuals in another way to still make it look interesting. Like really cool sand effects or lighting etc. This game will definitely not have a Horizon Zero Dawn type of wow-factor graphically.

Maybe it's unfair of me to judge the game based purely on the series it comes from but...I'm going to anyway. :p To me personally ( emphasis on personally ) I'm really not a fan of the AC series, The new game every year that are clearly rushed out with massive glaring issues and glitchs. The imo boring look of each game. Just none of it does anything for me. So when I saw this game I was already kinda unsure of it. ( It did look okay though at E3 ) But Ubisoft do love to present good looking games that then get downgraded before release so seeing it here it just kinda looks... meh.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Oh, please do!

Alrighty! Lucemon: Falldown/Fallen Mode

Lucemon. Luce meaning "Light" while simultaneously referring to Lucifer (which means "Light-Bringer", fyi), of Abrahamic mythology. Falldown mode refers to Lucifer's fall from heaven due to his pride, whereas the rookie form Lucemon represents Lucifer as his original angelic self, and the next evolution, Shadowlord Mode, is depicted as the Dragon of Revelation, with a crown of all the 7 Sins/Demon Lords, which represents Lucifer's total fall as Satan.

Falldown/Fallen referring to his being a Fallen Angel, especially considering his previous form, the rookie Lucemon, not only has 10 wings, putting him at a higher rank than Seraphimon, who is explicitly one of the Three Angels, and the one representing God's Wrath, and is closest to a biblical angel, but Lucemon (rookie form) also completely surpasses the Mega level Seraphimon in power, putting it as the mightiest angel of all. In fact, part of the mythos is that Lucemon's power is split BETWEEN the Three Great Angels, divided as Cherubimon (God's Wisdom), Ophanimon (God's Love), and Seraphimon (God's Wrath/Law).

Lucemon FM himself is fallen in that he is perfect balance of Light and Dark, it is both divine, and demonic. But "balance" does not mean "Harmony", and he is described as simultaneously loving all of god's creation, and desiring to destroy it all as a devil would.

One of it's special attacks is called "Paradise Lost", after the classic epic poem. Which, as the wikipedia summary succinctly puts it, "The poem concerns the biblical story of the Fall of Man: the temptation of Adam and Eve by the fallen angel Satan and their expulsion from the Garden of Eden. Milton's purpose, stated in Book I, is to "justify the ways of God to men"". (The actual attack itself is depicted as a launcher, aerial barrage, with a finale of the Kinniku Driver from Kinnikuman, a famous wrestling shonen series) .

Another attack is called Dead Or Alive, which, again i'm going to copypaste here for simplicity, is an attack that "Produces a three-dimensional magic circle as a glowing orb of holiness and evilness, within which it confines the opponent. When shut within this magic circle, it is a 50/50 decision whether the opponent is either completely annihilated or suffers great damage", which reflected Lucemon FM's dual nature of loving and destroying in equal measure.

Yet another attack is called Grand Cross, after the astrological idea of 4 planets aligning in a cross formation, where 10 superheated orbs arranged in a cruciform syzygy fire at the opponent

And in keeping with the "Fallen" aspect of Lucemon FM, not only is it the evolution of the most pure of all angels, but as per its demonic side, it is also the most powerful of the 7 Demon Lords, powerful demons who each embody one of the 7 deadly sins, Lucemon's being Pride (before the fall). And in keeping with how powerful he really is, the other Demon Lords are all Megas, while Lucemon FM is one stage BELOW them, as an Ultimate. But even as a Rookie he outclassed Seraphimon, the most powerful of the 3 Great Angels, whose corrupted form of Demon (a standin for the more monstrous depictions of Satan, the fallen angel) is another of the Demon Lords.



And then the actual design itself, is more obvious in its angel and demon wings, but on top of the classical "Golden hair, androgynous but beautiful face" depiction of an angel. I could have sworn the chest on his symbol was something specific, but I don't recall what.




This is the kind of shit i geek out over XD.
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Very interesting and informative video about the wonderful animation work in Shadow of the Colossus:


I'm so excited for the Shadow of the Colossus remake. :O It jumped immediately to the top spot of my most anticipated games in 2018. I never had the chance to play the game, because I didn't own any Sony console before the PS4. Still I was very informed about the game, having watched many reviews and analyses and having watched several playthroughs. Even without playing it myself, I could tell this game is a true piece of art. Now I will finally get to play it in the most gorgeous way it can look on PS4. A dream, that I didn't even knew I had, came true, lol.

Here's the E3 trailer for the remake again:


Here's also some screens:

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Argentus

Well-Known Member
Very interesting and informative video about the wonderful animation work in Shadow of the Colossus:


I'm so excited for the Shadow of the Colossus remake. :O It jumped immediately to the top spot of my most anticipated games in 2018. I never had the chance to play the game, because I didn't own any Sony console before the PS4. Still I was very informed about the game, having watched many reviews and analyses and having watched several playthroughs. Even without playing it myself, I could tell this game is a true piece of art. Now I will finally get to play it in the most gorgeous way it can look on PS4. A dream, that I didn't even knew I had, came true, lol.

Here's the E3 trailer for the remake again:


Here's also some screens:

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yaknow the oddest thing? Due to the hazy art style, it doesn't actually look that different from the ps2 version, that in no way is a bad thing, its a compliment to the original. Yes if you look closely at the rocks you can clearly see more detailed textures with bump/normal mapping, and higher detailed models, but due to the sheer scope and scale of the game, you don't see that when actually playing it. Like looking at these screens, i'm just seeing/remembering actually playing those parts on ps2 and ps3, and it looks virtually the same, and I LOVE THAT. Even now, that ps2 game is one of the most gorgeous games you'll ever play when it's actually in motion (as opposed to screenshots). Now granted, after playing this remake version it may be hard to go back to the ps2 version, as maybe this new version has things like motion blur and higher framerate, maybe even more content, but as far as straight visuals go, the point still stands.

It's kinda like back with the Mercenaries game. Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction, was a ps2/xbox game, which by default meant it had technically inferior graphics than the sequel, Mercenaries 2: World In Flames. But when actually PLAYING both of them, the first game looked LEAGUES better due to everything being more hazy, so it created a "less is more" visual trick where your mind and imagination fill in the gaps.
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So, I got Uncharted Lost Legacy today and these were the first pics that I took:

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These are all gameplay pics, no cutscenes. The game looks stunning, especially the use of colors. The game's visuals really pop.

Naughty Dog also clearly was inspired by Horizon Zero Dawn's photomode. You can now change facial expressions and the time of day in this game too. If a level is supposed to take place at night due to story reasons you are not able to change the time though.
 
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Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Where The Lost Legacy really shines though:

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The vistas are even prettier than in UC4 and most of that isn't just a plain and pretty background either, but it is fully explorable and climbable. Like the valley with the giant carved out of rock elephants here.
 
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Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
So, I got Uncharted Lost Legacy today and these were the first pics that I took:

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These are all gameplay pics, no cutscenes. The game looks stunning, especially the use of colors. The game's visuals really pop.

Naughty Dog also clearly was inspired by Horizon Zero Dawn's photomode. You can now change facial expressions and the time of day in this game too. If a level is supposed to take place at night due to story reasons you are not able to change the time though.

I'm ( hopefully ) gonna get the game soon to see but I'm guessing by changing the time its only while your in photo mode? Also the photo mode was a little annoying in UC4 to me so I hope its actually better in this one. :/
Also the graphics are insane! You can actually see every little wrinkle in the face and everything. I wonder if the facial features are as silly as the other one I saw with her winking? :p

I just wish I had it myself already lol, I want to be exploring it too!
 
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