Characters "....I cannot let you pass!" Naotora Ii for beginners Guide|LR Ver.
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KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Yup, I've also seen a person around called Giannola who mains Leifang IIRC. Not sure if (s)he plays Naotora, but it might be worth tagging him/her.
Gotcha! (@Giannola!) Oh and can you possibly tag me in the Character expert list thread? I can't find it in my watched threads sections ~_~
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Talk about a 2-1! @Corposant @NukNuks @Fullmetal If you guys can, care to elaborate on the Naotora vs. Leifang MU? Oh and anyone who sees this, feel free to provide insight if your main(s) have some experience and general knowledge regarding the MU. :-D
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KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
vs. Matchup rating: 1-3
Matchup difficulty: HARD
Explanation: Marie Rose can be very troublesome for Naotora. They both have very similar strike speed so Naotora doesn't win in the speed department. As mentioned before, Naotora relies a lot on her high kicks to start pressure. Marie Rose, however, has access to plenty of crushes to deal with her kicks, such as 3P+K Flower Wheel P, 1P, 2P, 3H+K and BT 2K. Another problem arises when we look at the nature of the fighting style of Marie. She is defense-oriented, which means she uses her defense to start pressure and her own offense. Marie's 4P+K Rondo parry is excellent at R1F and counters all high and mid punches. Naotora's useful punches all get eliminated by just that parry. She can also follow up from her parry with her nasty BT OH blender. Speaking of OHs, Marie has a 66T OH which deals nicely with Naotora's pressure. It has some good range too. A smart Marie player will take advantage of her parry and OHs and force Naotora into using only kicks and being more defensive.
Moreover, since Naotora's strings are relatively static, Marie can anticipate and react to the upcoming strike with an expert hold to deal some heavy damage. Marie is also very safe to play which makes it hard for Naotora to properly punish her with throws. Marie also has a very annoying Minuet hop, but Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal very well with the hop. Naotora has full tracking strings such as 6H+KKK which are safe on block. They completely mess up Marie's Minuet.
A Naotora player most likely doesn't want to deal with Marie up close. The key here is to stay at a distance and make use of Naotora's spacing tools. Marie has a hard time closing the gap and is very predictable in doing so: She either closes the gap with 66K or 3H+K (both mid kicks, and 3H+K is unsafe) or Flower Wheel with a potential follow-ups. All follow-ups from Flower Wheel are unsafe and can be punished properly by Naotora. Another common gap closer is 66T, which can be punished by throwing, since throws beat holds.
Summary:
- Similarities: Strike speed, other than that pretty much everything is different. Naotora is pure offense and Marie is pure defense.
- Advantages for Marie: Crushes, Rondo Parry and OHs to deal with Naotora's offense, expert holds, safe to play.
- Advantages for Naotora: The ranged game, predictability of Marie at range, Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal with Marie's Minuet thanks to some of her naturally tracking strings.
Very nice analysis! I actually read this twice over, you did great in breaking down the gist of the MU! :-D I'll put it in when I get the chance after the Rig one, which means that's 5 fighters already summed up!(I'd honestly put it in tonight, but I'm getting a bit drowsy and may fall asleep while typing XD)
Matchup rating: 1-3
Matchup difficulty: HARD
Explanation: Marie Rose can be very troublesome for Naotora. They both have very similar strike speed so Naotora doesn't win in the speed department. As mentioned before, Naotora relies a lot on her high kicks to start pressure. Marie Rose, however, has access to plenty of crushes to deal with her kicks, such as 3P+K Flower Wheel P, 1P, 2P, 3H+K and BT 2K. Another problem arises when we look at the nature of the fighting style of Marie. She is defense-oriented, which means she uses her defense to start pressure and her own offense. Marie's 4P+K Rondo parry is excellent at R1F and counters all high and mid punches. Naotora's useful punches all get eliminated by just that parry. She can also follow up from her parry with her nasty BT OH blender. Speaking of OHs, Marie has a 66T OH which deals nicely with Naotora's pressure. It has some good range too. A smart Marie player will take advantage of her parry and OHs and force Naotora into using only kicks and being more defensive.
Moreover, since Naotora's strings are relatively static, Marie can anticipate and react to the upcoming strike with an expert hold to deal some heavy damage. Marie is also very safe to play which makes it hard for Naotora to properly punish her with throws. Marie also has a very annoying Minuet hop, but Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal very well with the hop. Naotora has full tracking strings such as 6H+KKK which are safe on block. They completely mess up Marie's Minuet.
A Naotora player most likely doesn't want to deal with Marie up close. The key here is to stay at a distance and make use of Naotora's spacing tools. Marie has a hard time closing the gap and is very predictable in doing so: She either closes the gap with 66K or 3H+K (both mid kicks, and 3H+K is unsafe) or Flower Wheel with a potential follow-ups. All follow-ups from Flower Wheel are unsafe and can be punished properly by Naotora. Another common gap closer is 66T, which can be punished by throwing, since throws beat holds.
Summary:
- Similarities: Strike speed, other than that pretty much everything is different. Naotora is pure offense and Marie is pure defense.
- Advantages for Marie: Crushes, Rondo Parry and OHs to deal with Naotora's offense, expert holds, safe to play.
- Advantages for Naotora: The ranged game, predictability of Marie at range, Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal with Marie's Minuet thanks to some of her naturally tracking strings.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I'll happily break down some more matchups for the characters I know.
Also, even if I have broken down a matchup already, others are free to give their own opinion about the same matchup. I'd be interested for example what Nikotsumi thinks of the Nao-Marie matchup and if we think along the same lines or not.
That'd definitely be interesting, he should be back on around the same time tomorrow so that'll fit nicely. I'll hack at the phase 4 MU tonight and see how that goes in the meantime and I'll ask BBoy his thoughts too, he did say I could come to him if I had any questions regarding Phase 4 luckily. :-D And I'll ask Render-sensei his insight on the Rachel MU too as well.Thanks! I'll happily break down some more matchups for the characters I know.
Also, even if I have broken down a matchup already, others are free to give their own opinion about the same matchup. I'd be interested for example what Nikotsumi thinks of the Nao-Marie matchup and if we think along the same lines or not.
Nikotsumi
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you stated.
Matchup rating: 1-3
Matchup difficulty: HARD
Explanation: Marie Rose can be very troublesome for Naotora. They both have very similar strike speed so Naotora doesn't win in the speed department. As mentioned before, Naotora relies a lot on her high kicks to start pressure. Marie Rose, however, has access to plenty of crushes to deal with her kicks, such as 3P+K Flower Wheel P, 1P, 2P, 3H+K and BT 2K. Another problem arises when we look at the nature of the fighting style of Marie. She is defense-oriented, which means she uses her defense to start pressure and her own offense. Marie's 4P+K Rondo parry is excellent at R1F and counters all high and mid punches. Naotora's useful punches all get eliminated by just that parry. She can also follow up from her parry with her nasty BT OH blender. Speaking of OHs, Marie has a 66T OH which deals nicely with Naotora's pressure. It has some good range too. A smart Marie player will take advantage of her parry and OHs and force Naotora into using only kicks and being more defensive.
Moreover, since Naotora's strings are relatively static, Marie can anticipate and react to the upcoming strike with an expert hold to deal some heavy damage. Marie is also very safe to play which makes it hard for Naotora to properly punish her with throws. Marie also has a very annoying Minuet hop, but Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal very well with the hop. Naotora has full tracking strings such as 6H+KKK which are safe on block. They completely mess up Marie's Minuet.
A Naotora player most likely doesn't want to deal with Marie up close. The key here is to stay at a distance and make use of Naotora's spacing tools. Marie has a hard time closing the gap and is very predictable in doing so: She either closes the gap with 66K or 3H+K (both mid kicks, and 3H+K is unsafe) or Flower Wheel with a potential follow-ups. All follow-ups from Flower Wheel are unsafe and can be punished properly by Naotora. Another common gap closer is 66T, which can be punished by throwing, since throws beat holds.
Summary:
- Similarities: Strike speed, other than that pretty much everything is different. Naotora is pure offense and Marie is pure defense.
- Advantages for Marie: Crushes, Rondo Parry and OHs to deal with Naotora's offense, expert holds, safe to play.
- Advantages for Naotora: The ranged game, predictability of Marie at range, Naotora is one of the few characters who can deal with Marie's Minuet thanks to some of her naturally tracking strings.
Edit : Also, I would like to add that, while both environmental games aren't as dangerous as other characters, Naotora's is slightly better than Marie's : they don't have ceiling throws and have no way to get a guaranteed CB with the use of a breakable object (Marie's famous Flower Wheel K can be slow escaped) but Naotora can get a lot more of damage than Marie using the stages' special danger zones. This still doesn't change the fact that the matchup is definitely in Marie's favour.
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Nikotsumi
Well-Known Member
Ok, this is actually the first time I'm exposing my view on a matchup, feel free to correct me where/if I messed up.
vs
Matchup rating 2-2
Let's start talking about the similarities both characters have :
-Both have a limited move sets, this means they cannot mix up very much and thus can be easily held, though Naotora has longer strings than Ein and even though they hit on the same level and are unsafe, Ein has to respect them.
-Both have a good wall game.
-Both have almost no existent guaranteed options, Ein has 2 sit down stuns (8P and and 8K), that work only on normal hit and 8P only guarantees 3P/6K, on the other hand Naotora has 6KKK8K that guarantees a CB, but it's so telegraphed and thus can be easily held.
-Both have great zoning tools.
-Both have easy but damaging juggles.
Close range : Overall Ein's speed is better than Naotora having a 10i/13i/13i against hers 11i/12i/i14i. In neutral Naotora has to rely mainly on her mid 12i mid K or a high crush (2P or 2H+K) to start her offense, her 11i high kick can be crushed by Ein's 16i 1P and his 10i jab, that's why Naotora would want to rely on her high K.
Naotora can also be easily crushed by side stepping as she doen't have any tracking moves outside of her strings except for 2H+K, 6H+K, and 4P and most of them are highs, meaning that Ein once more can rely on his high crushes to start his offense.
Ein is safer than her, so Nao has to be careful when dealing with him at close range.
Long range :
Both characters have tools that can be used at long range. Naotora has 236K, 9K, Running K/P+K, 6K string and the Ii Family Creed options but almost all of them close the gap between her and the opponent and are extremely risky. On the other hand, Ein's tools beats most of Naotora's and allow him to actually keep the distance between him and the opponent (46P, 236P, 46K).
Naotora can do better at close range against Ein than at long range.
Holds/Throws : Nothing much to say here, Naotora's holds are super weak compared with Ein's.
The throw damage is similar, Ein's stronger throw (33T) deals a few points more of damage than Naotora's 66T. Both of them have throws that can deal extra damage using the environment (walls).
Unlike Naotora, Ein has access to OHs (66T and 3T ), that can be really helpful against her.
Environment : Both characters can take advantage of walls, though Ein's wall game is better than Naotora's, but she can do more damage than Ein using stages' special danger zones. Both characters do not have access to ceiling throws or a guaranteed CB through the use of breakable objects.
vs Matchup rating 2-2
Let's start talking about the similarities both characters have :
-Both have a limited move sets, this means they cannot mix up very much and thus can be easily held, though Naotora has longer strings than Ein and even though they hit on the same level and are unsafe, Ein has to respect them.
-Both have a good wall game.
-Both have almost no existent guaranteed options, Ein has 2 sit down stuns (8P and and 8K), that work only on normal hit and 8P only guarantees 3P/6K, on the other hand Naotora has 6KKK8K that guarantees a CB, but it's so telegraphed and thus can be easily held.
-Both have great zoning tools.
-Both have easy but damaging juggles.
Close range : Overall Ein's speed is better than Naotora having a 10i/13i/13i against hers 11i/12i/i14i. In neutral Naotora has to rely mainly on her mid 12i mid K or a high crush (2P or 2H+K) to start her offense, her 11i high kick can be crushed by Ein's 16i 1P and his 10i jab, that's why Naotora would want to rely on her high K.
Naotora can also be easily crushed by side stepping as she doen't have any tracking moves outside of her strings except for 2H+K, 6H+K, and 4P and most of them are highs, meaning that Ein once more can rely on his high crushes to start his offense.
Ein is safer than her, so Nao has to be careful when dealing with him at close range.
Long range :
Both characters have tools that can be used at long range. Naotora has 236K, 9K, Running K/P+K, 6K string and the Ii Family Creed options but almost all of them close the gap between her and the opponent and are extremely risky. On the other hand, Ein's tools beats most of Naotora's and allow him to actually keep the distance between him and the opponent (46P, 236P, 46K).
Naotora can do better at close range against Ein than at long range.
Holds/Throws : Nothing much to say here, Naotora's holds are super weak compared with Ein's.
The throw damage is similar, Ein's stronger throw (33T) deals a few points more of damage than Naotora's 66T. Both of them have throws that can deal extra damage using the environment (walls).
Unlike Naotora, Ein has access to OHs (66T and 3T ), that can be really helpful against her.
Environment : Both characters can take advantage of walls, though Ein's wall game is better than Naotora's, but she can do more damage than Ein using stages' special danger zones. Both characters do not have access to ceiling throws or a guaranteed CB through the use of breakable objects.
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Nice analysis! I read through it and I can't say that there's anything wrong with it, it seems like a solid MU rating! I'll also add on to this when I can enter it that Ein has his 17i 66T OH that can shut down her attacks at a distance if read right, and his 10i low OH can shut down her 2P, 2H+K and there BT counterparts, along with the third and fourth hit from PP2K2K and the second hit from 6H+KK and the 2K follow up from Ii Family Creed.Ok, this is actually the first time I'm exposing my view on a matchup, feel free to correct me where/if I messed up.
Matchup rating 2-2
Let's start talking about the similarities both characters have :
-Both have a limited move set, this means they cannot mix up very much and thus can be easily held, though Naotora has longer strings than Ein and even though they hit on the same level and are unsafe, Ein has to respect them.
-Both have a good wall game.
-Both have almost no existent guaranteed options, Ein has 2 sit down stuns (8P and and 8K), that work only on normal hit and 8P only guarantees 3P/6K, on the other hand Naotora has 6KKK8K that guarantees a CB, but it's so telegraphed and thus can be easily held.
-Both have great zoning tools.
-Both have easy but damaging juggles.
Close range : Overall Ein's speed is better than Naotora having a 10i/13i/13i against hers 11i/12i/i14i. In neutral Naotora has to rely mainly on her mid 12i mid K or a high crush (2P or 2H+K) to start her offense, her 11i high kick can be crushed by Ein's 16i 1P and his 10i jab, that's why Naotora would want to rely on her high K.
Naotora can also be easily crushed by side stepping as she doen't have any tracking moves outside of her strings except for 2H+K, 6H+K, and 4P and most of them are highs, meaning that Ein once more can rely on his high crushes to start his offense.
Ein is safer than her, so Nao has to be careful when dealing with him at close range.
Long range :
Both characters have tools that can be used at long range. Naotora has 236K, 9K, Running K/P+K, 6K string and the Ii Family Creed options but almost all of them close the gap between her and the opponent and are extremely risky. On the other hand, Ein's tools beats most of Naotora's and allow him to actually keep the distance between him and the opponent (46P, 236P, 46K).
Naotora can do better at close range against Ein than at long range.
Holds/Throws : Nothing much to say here, Naotora's holds are super weak compared with Ein's.
The throw damage is similar, Ein's stronger throw (33T) deals a few points more of damage than Naotora's 66T. Both of them have throws that can deal extra damage using the environment (walls).
Environment : Both characters can take advantage of walls, though Ein's wall game is better than Naotora's, but she can do more damage than Ein using stages' special danger zones. Both characters do not have access to ceiling throws or a guaranteed CB through the use of breakable objects.