Petition for a better netcode?

XxNoriakixX

Well-Known Member
Nah i said that because i might stop playing doa5 because without competition the time i spent with this game feels a bit wastet..and the money for her outfits..

I really hope that they will get the netcode right in the next game.. Doa just feels right gameplay wise and it is still my fav. fighting game besides Tekken..i still have my doa2 kasumi in black bikini poster lol
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So everyone that lives in a place that the game isn't popular should just forget the game exists and go away?

No, but you are not giving a valid reason on your part. The game is actually playable online. You said it was "unplayable" which was incorrect because by that logic people wouldn't even had the slight interest to play the game for daily times with friends on the net or attend events if they can't even develop a match up within the net or simply just to play. For "you" it's unplayable but I will agree that the game isn't perfect within the net and I been knew that once vanilla first hit the stores. I want them to improve on that and they did over the following two upgrades, which was better than nothing. Not the best, but it has been an upgrade on that part. Do I want them to try more? yes absolutely, but people have tried again and no answer on their part this time, so people are left to the conclusion that they can't do anymore as well as having no proof that they don't care about improving it even more. What if they no longer have the power to make such things when they are grasped by a higher up? did you take that into consideration? Team NINJA is a sub company after all.

I can't see a reason besides "they don't want to do it" here, there is not a single side that would lose if DOA5LR had better netplay in general.

When exactly did you play DOA5LR? how long have you been around like serious question here? have you played DOA5 vanilla? shit was atrocious pre-patch and you'd get disconnected 70% of the time as soon as it hits the character select screen which was far worse than 5U and Last Round. They improved what they can over the years but you are literally asking what seems to be a grand exaggeration of things. Don't even get me started on those god damn Vita players which never returned once 5U hits because of obvious reasons connection-wise and obvious reasons upgrade-wise.


We are in a generation where we can have almost lagless connections between two different continents in fighting games. It is not justifiable for a fighting game to not have a decent netcode at least.

You are asking a fighting game to break barriers here. It's not run by a true dedicated server if you are looking for something as close to lagless (which is also impossible since lag exist anyway "because you are playing online"). It's ran in a lobby with two players relying on their connection to run a match together. This isn't a AA company that has the people to create some sort of dedicated server. Also to mention that making a true dedicated server will cost them money over time. Team NINJA isn't a AAA company of games here.

We haven't reached the age where we can play JPN players from within the net because let me tell you, those dudes are laggy as hell, but you can't exactly blame them when you are trying to connect to them from across the damn globe. You can't exactly improve on something like that. It's not within hardware situation as well as your initial network isn't grand of things either. You are giving current gen far too much credit here.
 
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XxNoriakixX

Well-Known Member
Well are ArcSys and their team red and blue aaa devs? Soul calibur had a decent connection, Vf and Tekken too (ok maybe BandaiNamco has enough resources) but the thing is the netcode isn't just dependend on dedicated servers, it has to be developed and coded just like every other aspect of a game.

It has to do with programming and not being greedy or lazy like TN. The best servers won't help you if you are a bad programmer.. And even if they are a sub-studio.. They make enough money from all the dlc and Nioh also looks like an aaa game.

We all like TN in some way but we should not defend or accept everything. If they mess up they should live with the consequences/financial loss and learn from it.

Yes they can ban us for being annoying etc but sooner or later people will move on to other projects. Capcom messed it up too with their barebone fighter V and now people are more and more interested in guilty gear for example. These guys raised their voice and did not support them anymore and now capcom is slowly waking up
 
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DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Well are ArcSys and their team red and blue aaa devs? Soul calibur had a decent connection, Vf and Tekken too (ok maybe BandaiNamco has enough resouces) but the thing is the netcode isn't just dependend on dedicated servers, it has to be developed and coded just like every other aspect of a game.

It has to do with programming and not being greedy or lazy like TN. The best servers won't help you if you are a bad programmer.. And even if they are a sub-studio.. They make enough money from all the dlc and Nioh also looks like an aaa game.

We all like TN in some way but we should not defend or accept everything. If they mess up they should live with the consequences/financial loss and learn from it.

Yes they can ban us for being annoying etc but sooner or later people will start to move on to other projects. Capcom messed it up too with their barebone fighter V and now people are more and more interested in guilty gear for example. These guys raised their voice and did not support them anymore and now capcom is slowly waking up

ArcSystem Works isn't AAA. A triple A company is like the Call of Duty series, The Witcher, Batman Arkham series, GTA etc. Games that amass a ton of players like babies being born each day. If there's anything that's close to that, possibly Street Fighter, but even their latest edition isn't that great when they announced 8-frame delay netplay by them (Ono).

Sometimes it isn't about development costs but whoever they have for such a small team. I am not defending TN for what they do because there are tons of stuff till this day that still annoys me by them, but some of the stuff people request for is just exaggeration levels that even they can't possibly handle. It is still unknown on their intentions unless people directly ask them, but people will fear they'll just talk out their ass into lying about the game's net when perhaps they could be telling the truth? no one knows because none of us have any proof to that matter. I am not against improving the game's net but I am not that crazy for exaggeration levels, especially with current gen as well.

They make money from all that DLC but it's not directly going into just the game's funds itself. KOEI could take that cash and then store it for further use while providing their wage for the Team NINJA employees because it's business and it's a job.

They don't ban you for being annoying. They ignore everyone because they are annoying (at least for the typical general right reasons and not truly everyone, but yeah to some parts of it). People move on because of what they feel which some of it can be understandable. At least it's not the ones that try to move on and come right back to DOA5LR because it's the only game they can play.

As for the bad programmer part, probably not or probably. Can't speak for that because maybe it's true or not. People literally have tried in the past to constantly contact TN about the netcode and they tried to work on it, just not what people expected or unsure on how to properly handle such portions when they know this also varies on people's connections themselves.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
Dedicated servers in fighting games? wtf are you guys smoking, servers in fighting games are only used for matchmaking. The fights happen in peer-to-peer because it's the best thing to do lag wise, playing through servers would make everything worse.

P2P = connection goes from A to B = low latency = good
Server = connection goes from A to X to B = high latency = bad
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Tag could use some work, but let's be totally real here, Tag isn't considered a true mode for competitive play however I would be surprised if they did. Doubt it though.
 

jecolandia

Member
Tag could use some work, but let's be totally real here, Tag isn't considered a true mode for competitive play however I would be surprised if they did. Doubt it though.

No, I'm not talking about competitive in tag team mode, I'm suggesting better quality for fun in tag team. competitive or not, actually tag team mode still so bad.
 

Sotherius

Well-Known Member
You are giving current gen far too much credit here.
As far as i know, Killer Instinct has a netplay so good that you have official tournaments with intercontinental battles, but don't quote me on that.

But i didn't want that much to be honest, i just wanted to have playable matches.

No, i started getting into DOA the beginning of this year.

I just want to find a solution that isn't forgetting that this game exists, i tried different ISP's, paid for dedicated links, complicated net setups, got the game in a different more used and more common platform, but nothing seems to give me real DOA matches.
 

Seigen

Well-Known Member
Go to www.speedtest.net and check your ping with different US based servers. High? Of course, they're far away so you'd have lots of lag even if you'd play with them on PC; netcode refinements won't help much with lag caused by large distances between players.

IMO the online experience would be much improved if everybody would ditch their high latency jittery wifi connections and get a quality wired one. But apparently 90% of DOA players hates Ethernet cables.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Go to www.speedtest.net and check your ping with different US based servers. High? Of course, they're far away so you'd have lots of lag even if you'd play with them on PC; netcode refinements won't help much with lag caused by large distances between players.

IMO the online experience would be much improved if everybody would ditch their high latency jittery wifi connections and get a quality wired one. But apparently 90% of DOA players hates Ethernet cables.
Or can't play wired because of how the router is set up, my ps4 is in my room and the router we did have was positioned in the living room about 7 seconds away
 

Seigen

Well-Known Member
Not familiar with KI but no game is immune to distance lag; transcontinental gameplay will always be plagued by input delay simply because those input signals have to travel large distances with a finite speed; the signal route can be optimized with a better netcode, but even netcode optimization has its limits and it sure won't compensate for slow and jittery internet connections.

http://www.speedtest.net/articles/what-is-jitter/
 

Sotherius

Well-Known Member
won't compensate for slow and jittery internet connections.
Certainly not, but what KI has achieved with its netcode is heaven for online play really. transcontinental tournaments being held with no problems, the online scene being more than powerful enough to keep the game alive, and so on.

You can't eliminate online lag, but DOA's netcode is way below what i would consider average today, don't know about 3d fighters, but fighting games in general.

And you don't need to link articles, i think most people here know what is latency and what is jitter.
 

Sotherius

Well-Known Member
Me? No, i don't have a xone or a good pc. But there are too many reports that hold that argument, that KI netcode is good enough to allow transcontinental matches fine.

Heck, with my current internet i had better matches with GGPO netcode against people from canada (i live in brazil btw), than i had matches against brazilians on DOA 5 LR, and ggpo is pretty much the lowest acceptable for a 2d fighter.

Now, i can't tell if this is 3d fighting games being too behind on the netcode subject, but in any case, DOA's netcode is not even close to good, and i firmly believe that if you had a dedicated staff and budget put into working on that, they could get much better.
 
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WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
does anyone actually have a concrete contribution to the improvement of their code other than "amg teem ninja fix lag" uhueahue
try calling rooms something like "Europe only" instead of "Fighting Online!", may help


@Sotherius you said that:
- Killer Instinct has excellent netcode
- yet you have never played Killer Insinct
- and GGPO is the "lowest acceptable"
dude KI uses GGPO and GGPO is possibly the best netcode available in the fighting game genre. Some reasons that probably drive developers away from it may be:
- it's proprietary, middleware, with a license that has a cost, which is probably not that expensive though for a company like TN since indie games such as Skullgirls and Divekick could afford it
- the game needs to be built from the ground up to support it. The devs would need to pull off a MKXL for this to happen, which is unlikely
- so they just resort to re-using their old existing in-house delay-based netcode from DOA2U/DOA4 they're familiar with
 
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Goarmagon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Our best bet is to bitch at them and make sure they dont fuck up DOA6's netplay with inferior netcode. The dream is dead for DOA5
 
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