DOA4's demo and other questions

Moneyspider_Todd

Active Member
Hi!!

In order to avoid necroposting and also in a way to motivates more movement here, I decided to leave this thread for questions about the Great Dead or Alive 4.

1.- Is there any documented differences between DOA 4.0 and DOA 4.1?
2.- The Trial/Demo of DOA4 comes six months after the official release of the game. Do you know if this version was based in the 4.0 or 4.1 of the final game?
3.- Do you know if there was any plans back in the day for any expansion pack (like the hurricane packs of ninja gaiden or the booster pack disc of DOA3) for DOA4?
3.- Is there are any hidden/unused/scrapped stuff in the data info of the game?

Well, those are my question. If you don't know about anything im asking and just wanna talk about DOA4, it's also welcome :)

Greetings!
 

JAG THE GEMINI

Active Member
The only GREAT game in this franchise is DOA3.1/.2
There were changes listed back then, someone still might have access to the DOA4-4.1 changes
An expansion pack was not planned afaik
 

Moneyspider_Todd

Active Member
I beg to differ. DOA4 is the perfection of every concept created in DOA2U and DOA3 combined in terms of gameplay, modes, characters and stages.

Also, it has free battle mode, something i'm really grateful they added on it.

but hey, thanks for your comment. :)
 

JAG THE GEMINI

Active Member
DOA4 was A heavy mind and guessing game cluster, way inferior to DOA3's guaranted damage set ups ect.
If Ein hasn't been in DOA4 who he was(nearly awesome), I would have never played this game hundreds of hours in a highly competitive way..
Your welcome :cool:
 

CyberEvil

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Very few people here hold DoA4 in high regard because it’s not very good in comparison to a few other entries. At all.
 

Awesmic

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Hi!!

In order to avoid necroposting and also in a way to motivates more movement here, I decided to leave this thread for questions about the Great Dead or Alive 4.

1.- Is there any documented differences between DOA 4.0 and DOA 4.1?
2.- The Trial/Demo of DOA4 comes six months after the official release of the game. Do you know if this version was based in the 4.0 or 4.1 of the final game?
3.- Do you know if there was any plans back in the day for any expansion pack (like the hurricane packs of ninja gaiden or the booster pack disc of DOA3) for DOA4?
3.- Is there are any hidden/unused/scrapped stuff in the data info of the game?

Well, those are my question. If you don't know about anything im asking and just wanna talk about DOA4, it's also welcome :)

Greetings!
1) I dunno about 4.0, but there was at least a document of frame data based on the 4.1 patch in Tecmo's old website before the merger (the address escapes me ATM, can anyone else direct to it?). As far as I know, 4.1 removed whatever unholdable stuns there were in 4.0, such as the limbo stun.

2) I believe it was based on 4.1, given the timing.

3) AFAIK, Kokoro's kimono from the game's attract mode was unused. But with a little modding wizardry, the assets can be extracted and used in the actual game. Christie was also going to have purple lipstick and matching fingernails to go with her revealing blue blazer outfit (her Costume 1, I believe), but for whatever reason, this didn't make it to the final game.

DOA4's reasons for not being as competitive as other entries were for the following reasons:

1) Lack of reward in the wall game. In DOA3 (and now DOA5), you got free damage off a wall stun, guaranteed. In DOA4, you could use holds even if you got wall stunned, leaving little to no fear of corner pressure even then.

2) No unholdable stuns to guarantee a combo. After the 4.1 patch, just about every unholdable stun was removed, making your only option for guaranteed damage punishing unsafe moves with command throws. Beyond that, you were in constant fear of a lucky hold at any given time playing the stun game, rendering strategic pressure almost moot.

3) Everything tracks. There is no true sidestepping in the game, so attacks that should be linear automatically retrack, which makes the game feel more like a 2.5D fighter sometimes outside of positioning yourself to certain areas when at a distance.

3) Lack of character individuality due to the universal offensive hold system. In previous entries, offensive holds (throws 12 frames or higher that could go through certain attacks) were exclusive to grappler-class characters like Bass and Tina. In DOA4, everyone has a high and a low offensive hold. The problem with this is that like all strikes in the game, these offensive holds also track the opponent, and the overall game meta felt similar for every character as a result. Slower characters such as Bass struggle with this mechanic now being shared across the roster. Thankfully, this was corrected in DOA5 onward.

If there's anything good I have to take away from DOA4, however, it was that the ground game was arguably more consistent and easy to understand. You could position force techs the way you want when you want because it was similar for every character (2k, then any low to force tech in a certain direction). Personally, I would want this take on the ground game system back for the next installment of DOA.
 

Forlorn Penguin

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Awesmic pretty much nailed explaining why DOA4 was really bad. Additionally, I'd like to mention that another thing that made DOA4 so awful was the poor stage design. Almost every stage in DOA4 is terrible for one reason or another. There are several stages that feel more like they belong in Super Smash Bros. with how the stages actively attack the players, but in addition to this, the stages also feel like they punish you for utilizing the environment, which is absurd. What I mean by this is that, as far as I recall, every stage transition in the game in which you knock your opponent down stairs or over a ledge, leaves you standing right next to them, suddenly putting you on the defensive and forcing you to deal with their wakeup options.

And lets also not forget about Experimental Playground, with its inconsistent layout due to moving partitions, or Ninja Hideout with its asinine ceiling obstructions that completely shut down Tengu's only decent juggle. Yeah, DOA4 was just plain awful, sadly.

Anyway, to answer your original questions:

1) Yes, there is a list of changes made in the 4.1 patch. You can also view changes in the frame data on the wiki here.

2) I don't know which version the demo is based on, but like Awesmic said, it's reasonable to assume that its based on 4.1, due to the time of its release. You can just test some things from that change list while playing the demo to confirm it.

3) No, there were never any plans for DLC, at least not any that were made public.

4) In addition to what Awesmic mentioned the scrapped content, another thing that I'm aware of though is that there existed another version of Jann Lee's yellow jumpsuit that had the sleeves rolled up to around his elbows that is not normally available in the game for whatever reason, but can be made accessible through modding. Also, I'm not positive about this, but I think that Alpha-152 was originally planned to be playable, but the idea was abandoned before the game was finished. And Master Chief was originally supposed to be the guest character, but Bungie declined that idea and worked with Team Ninja to create SPARTAN-458 instead.
 

Moneyspider_Todd

Active Member
to being honest and after years of playing it none of the problems you've pointed are really bad for me. Stages are pretty good and different in between them, and the wake up attack adds more pressure to beign alert and don't just spam taunts or just wait. Speed has been always the name of the game in DOA (well, until DOA5), so, it's make sense. I guess some of you can drop the FGC thing and the "competitve" scene but to beign honest, i've never been into that and the elitist crap existing there.

But hey, thanks for your answer. It could be useful for me and my friends that's keep playing DOA4.
 

grap3fruitman

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Standard Donor
So is everyone just going to shit on DOA4 without answering his questions? And I have the reputation of “resident hater”? Okay...

1.- Is there any documented differences between DOA 4.0 and DOA 4.1?
2.- The Trial/Demo of DOA4 comes six months after the official release of the game. Do you know if this version was based in the 4.0 or 4.1 of the final game?
3.- Do you know if there was any plans back in the day for any expansion pack (like the hurricane packs of ninja gaiden or the booster pack disc of DOA3) for DOA4?
4.- Is there are any hidden/unused/scrapped stuff in the data info of the game?
1. There are a number of gameplay changes (2 in 1s were removed, ground game changed... somehow) but I don’t think it’s well-document anywhere. The character balance changes are documented officially as two sets of frame data, one labeled offline (4.0) and one labeled online (4.1). But I don’t think there’s a list that says Kasumi’s x is no longer y or something. Too bad there’s no good DOA wiki, huh?
2. Okay, this is weird: it’s based on a beta version but it has the 4.1 balance changes. It has the old character select layout and icons. If you download it and hack it, all the files are in a different structure and there are no AFS files (everything’s unpacked). I think Team Ninja went and updated an old trade demo version after the fact instead of making a demo out of the final.
3. Nothing was announced. I can’t recall if Itagaki even hinted at it and he’s usually big on pushing technology so I feel like he would made a big deal about any possible DLC.
4. Kokoro’s pink and blue kimonos can be made playable. But I’m sure there’s hidden stuff still looking to be found. While hacking, we accidentally unlocked some of Bass’s DOA3 moves and even the DOA1 parry animation. Those old moves are in there and I’d like to see them. I know for a fact that Hayabusa has a handstand (different from 1/2/3) and a bunch of different attacks in TGS and X05 builds of DOA4. Remember Jann Lee’s beta voice? I wonder if you can still find that. Matt did a great breakdown of the old initial DOA4 trailer that talks about different gameplay changes. No clue where that is. I certainly encourage anyone that’s interested to start digging for beta stuff. You’re bound to find something.
 
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Forlorn Penguin

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Premium Donor
So is everyone just going to shit on DOA4 without answering his questions? And I have the reputation of “resident hater”? Okay...

Awesmic and I did answer his questions.

But damn, I didn't know that old data from previous games was lingering around in there. I always wondered why they removed Hayabusa's handstand. And Jann Lee had a different voice in an earlier build?
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
In the beta, grabbing people in stun reset the stun, the ground bounce was more pronounced, offensive holds didn't have any extra initial animation, there was a high-level get-up kick. Just made a Youtube playlist with some of the old footage. I'll add more to it when it's not 5AM. Who's theme song was this? I extracted the songs (back in the day) in the final version and it's not leftover. There's more footage I need to pull from IGN and Gamespot - I know there's a video out there with a beta version of Hayate/Brad's theme (I mix them up) and more direct feed footage with different moves. There's plenty of weird unused moves in the videos already posted. Kasumi had like a weird flip-kick that faked out people, she also had an extra string off her (I think) :2::K::K: that was a high and hit super fast. Here's Jann Lee's earlier voice. Zack had more juggle potential.
 
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Awesmic

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Speaking for myself, I am not "shitting on DOA4". I listed possible reasons why most people didn't enjoy it on a competitive level compared to other installments.

I personally will always have DOA4 as a title with a special place in my heart despite its flaws. It was the game I started with when I got involved with the competitive community, after all. But after playing DOA5 and seeing certain changes from DOA4 for myself, I have a better understanding of the objective views for DOA4 back then.
 

Mark Of Blades

New Member
Well the opinions Always are different and that's valid, for me ..I'm still in love with Doa4 is classic, it may not be perfect, but is really fun to play . About the hidden content, well as you all said before , you can get the extra costumes with mods like Kokoro's Kimonos, or Helena's opera dress, and more , about the Jann Lee's yellow jumpsuit that Forlorn Penguin mentioned is not an extra cs of Jann Lee, it's actually a modded version of the playable One. You can remove the logo on the back and the area near the arms so you can get the sleeves rolled up "illusion", + that cs of Jann Lee is really "lite" so you can inject it and replace the 1cs of him. And get two versions of that costume.

Another thing is that Doa4 is the "last" of the consoles versions that still got the classic Models 3D of the characters that has been replaced since doa5.

XD and Kasumi 's hair in Doa4 and previous DOAs is long and beautiful. But in doa5 .-. They cut it off for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I like DOA5 , DOA5U and The Updated DOA5LR . Kasumi, Phase 4, and Alpha 152 are always my favorites, But DOA4 is still a classic like DOA2U Or DOA3 And its a very great game like the others in the DOA Games series.
Well that's my opinion,if anyone thinks different it's valid too.

BTW you can Make New Css in DOA4 by using a swapping and re-texture metod. :)

https://i.imgur.com/1ovOhRo.jpg
 
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Matt Ponton

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DOA4, the game where if you want to have the advantage, get hit. Unless getting hit is an instant juggle without environment... then the juggling player has the advantage due to guaranteed untechables and force techs into safe options.

But damn, I didn't know that old data from previous games was lingering around in there. I always wondered why they removed Hayabusa's handstand. And Jann Lee had a different voice in an earlier build?

Many of the old animation data is still in the characters. Leon's animation data in DOA5 still has his four part combo throw from DOA3 for example.
 

usagiZ

Well-Known Member
In the beta, grabbing people in stun reset the stun, the ground bounce was more pronounced, offensive holds didn't have any extra initial animation, there was a high-level get-up kick. Just made a Youtube playlist with some of the old footage.

There's plenty of weird unused moves in the videos already posted. Kasumi had like a weird flip-kick that faked out people, she also had an extra string off her (I think) :2::K::K: that was a high and hit super fast. Here's Jann Lee's earlier voice. Zack had more juggle potential.

Thanks for these videos, it's nice to see more of x05 DOA4.
The weird move from Jann Lee looks like they gave him a string off of the jump punch? That's something that's never existed in DOA before.

Many of the old animation data is still in the characters. Leon's animation data in DOA5 still has his four part combo throw from DOA3 for example.

When making the movesets, they probably just kept the animations they -might- use in the files. Helena in DOA5 has "new" moves that already existed in her DOA2 data. Alpha-152's weird overhead scorpion kick existed in DOA3 Kasumi's data. They definitely re-purpose old animations whenever they get the chance - as they should tbh.

That fake out flip-kick from x05 DOA4 Kasumi was later reused in Phase-4's moveset (without the initial lunge part) as her :K: during Chifu. It's probably still in her DOA4 data, too.
 
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usagiZ

Well-Known Member
I had a quick look in DOA4 Kasumi's data to find that fake-out kick, and found a few things.
(Side note: I used DOA Online to sift through the animations, but it's DOA4 Kasumi's animation file)
bsyAZKb.gif

This move was actually mapped to :6::F+K: in the character.bin
It was supposed to do 38 dmg and had basically the same properties as Ein's :4::K:
Kz19o1r.gif

This was an unused low ender to the :K::K: string. She has a ton of other options from :K::K: so it makes sense that this was cut.
iSmQBvM.gif

This looks like a chargeable version of her DOA3 elbow.
Vuh57dh.gif

In the E3 2005 trailer she does a wall run attack against Kokoro.
Would've been interesting to see that make it to the retail version
It really seems like they might've been a bit rushed and removed a lot of things at the last second -- like the amount of unused string mixups that were cut. When they patched it to 4.1, they added a few things back in.

I could maybe put together a short tutorial on how to sift through the animations with DOAO if someone else really wants to do that. You can look through DOA4's animations if you convert the files, but I'll probably just include the converted mots to avoid that step lol.
 
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Matt Ponton

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i wouldn't be against looking. Right now all i have is blender motion files from the DOA5 PC version to sift through.
 

usagiZ

Well-Known Member
i wouldn't be against looking. Right now all i have is blender motion files from the DOA5 PC version to sift through.
Oh D: Someone converted the motions? Does DOA5 use the same animation format?
The dream is to convert custom animations to mot format for use in game, which'll never happen.

Ok, I'll put together the tut then - It shouldn't take very long. Viewing the motions is actually pretty simple, just tedious, as I've probably said too many times.
 

grap3fruitman

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This move was actually mapped to :6::F+K: in the character.bin
It was supposed to do 38 dmg and had basically the same properties as Ein's :4::K:
Holy shit these are amazing. Thanks for sharing. Your method gives notation and other data too? I kind of want to figure out how to finally perform Jann Lee's hidden taunt that only the CPU could seemingly pull off.
 
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