Community A Message From Tom Lee and Why You Should Make It Out to a Tournament

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
My worry with France is that the tournament main language is naturally french. They should try to make it to thing in UK since then mostly Europeans can go to there. Most of us speaks English too but not french. I can see spending time with other players can be hard if people don't speak the same language. Also UK is in perfect place if you look at the player map.

Couple of wrong excuses here to not participate.

- Language is not a barrier for participating. English is spoken, with a strong accent that's true but you won't be lost. Bring some friends with you and come .

- Player's map doesn't reflect all of European DOA's players location. FSD is english so the map reflect that. So UK and english spoken is overrepresented here. I think that Europeant DOA centroid would be switzerland. Moreover for you, you have the Eurostar that goes direclty inside Paris.

Don't misunderstand me, i would like that UK scene exist. But don't take your fear of foreigners overwhelm you to not participate in tournament.

My regret is that Europ has not enough popular scene. Germany could have one, or italy.
 
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Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Somebody really, really has some issues if they believe all that shit.
If by having issues you mean holding on to hope to go with practice and dedication to beat top players, then sure, they're guilty as charged.

I hope people have more of those "issues".
 

TheRealCoxinator

Well-Known Member
A lot of people probably think that if they go they will still play like this
kermit-the-frog-flail.gif
win because they are button mashing bitches, then get punched in the face.
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
You can never tell with Awesmic. He has a very self-defeating attitude and feels every argument is placed on him. It's just the way he is and you eventually learn to tune it out.

I thought he was being sarcastic.

To be fair, sure Awesmic was way over doing it, but there's been several times I can recall where I've seen an open lobby with several of the top players in it, I join only to get kicked for literally no reason, even some of my friends had the same exact encounter with the same people. Why make an open lobby if it's gonna just be for people you obviously deem "worthy" of facing? Why not just make a private lobby? It's rude, and borderline egotistical, makes me question how these players act in real life.

Call 'em out. Mark times and names, and call them out on it. "Top players" could be anyone from Manny (which i doubt he would do this) to some random clown with a ruby rank. Preferably go to them in private, first, because a community flame war ends up messy. Also, evidence helps.

The issue is, on one hand, that kind of stuff starts trouble. On the other hand, without documentation, you're just spewing hot air.
 

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
Call 'em out. Mark times and names, and call them out on it. "Top players" could be anyone from Manny (which i doubt he would do this) to some random clown with a ruby rank. Preferably go to them in private, first, because a community flame war ends up messy. Also, evidence helps.
The issue is, on one hand, that kind of stuff starts trouble. On the other hand, without documentation, you're just spewing hot air.
Nah, it's not Manny, if it was, I'd be surprised too, considering he's been quite nice to me in the past.

Anyway, I'm just not that type of person to go out of my way and take pictures of being kicked, and making a big deal out of this. Plus, even if I did take pictures, someone could just say "well how do I know that was my lobby you got kicked from?" blah blah... in the end it's just not worth the trouble IMHO. If they feel this way then w/e.

The point is, this "elitist" attitude seems evidently real from my experiences considering it's been the same lobby multiple times I've been kicked before even playing. If anything, it actually disappointed me.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Lopedo will kick people for days. He makes an open lobby simply to see who is available and will show up. But that doesn't mean he is obligated to let everyone stay.

But this kind of mentality is to be expected from some people. On my end, people will never kick me for having a lack of skill or not being good enough. Instead, I will get kicked for being too good and dominating the hell out of a room. That's what will happen if I go jumping around in lower level players rooms -- which are about 95% of the rooms available at any given time, I might add.

So while its funny that top level players kick lower level players, saying they are elitist isn't a very viable insult considering that low level players do the same thing to high level players for the exact opposite reason.

The reality is that most players are just looking for a reasonably challenging matchup, and the game doesn't provide a very good method of finding that matchup. Rankings are a joke that a lot of people dont bother with. I've always tried to fight people who are just a little bit better than I am, and work my way up in that manner. Where I am now, thats difficult. There is a lot of fight-dodging at high level and you end up playing the same people every night in private lobbies because nobody else can keep you awake.

Just how it goes...
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
Lopedo will kick people for days. He makes an open lobby simply to see who is available and will show up. But that doesn't mean he is obligated to let everyone stay.

But this kind of mentality is to be expected from some people. On my end, people will never kick me for having a lack of skill or not being good enough. Instead, I will get kicked for being too good and dominating the hell out of a room. That's what will happen if I go jumping around in lower level players rooms -- which are about 95% of the rooms available at any given time, I might add.

So while its funny that top level players kick lower level players, saying they are elitist isn't a very viable insult considering that low level players do the same thing to high level players for the exact opposite reason.

The reality is that most players are just looking for a reasonably challenging matchup, and the game doesn't provide a very good method of finding that matchup. Rankings are a joke that a lot of people dont bother with. I've always tried to fight people who are just a little bit better than I am, and work my way up in that manner. Where I am now, thats difficult. There is a lot of fight-dodging at high level and you end up playing the same people every night in private lobbies because nobody else can keep you awake.

Just how it goes...

When people are afraid of loosing their game from fighting someone weaker, they aren't helping someone get to their level to keep them entertained.
 

TheRealCoxinator

Well-Known Member
When people are afraid of loosing their game from fighting someone weaker, they aren't helping someone get to their level to keep them entertained.
go back to my last comment on this. Replace think with know. Playing a game like this with some rando where people can easily abuse things and getting frustrated isn't worth it. IMHO this game and the naruto fighting games are in the same boat. Although naruto's a bit more of a larger ratio.
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
go back to my last comment on this. Replace think with know. Playing a game like this with some rando where people can easily abuse things and getting frustrated isn't worth it. IMHO this game and the naruto fighting games are in the same boat. Although naruto's a bit more of a larger ratio.

It's getting to the point that we know the lag issues will never be fixed. We need to stop using it as an excuse and learn how to adapt to it. It's funny how we say and are told to adapt to everything, then whine when it gets laggy instead of finding a solution. We can't cherrypick our attitudes (i whine about the lag, but i also whine about everything else, so it's still consistent, since i don't spout the whole "adapt" thing).
 

FakeSypha

Well-Known Member
I agree completely to what Tom Lee said. I can see pretty much the same thing going on here at Buenos Aires fighting game scene (which is pretty much USFIV right now). There are a lot of people with a closed mindset saying they're not going to tourneys because they're not going to win. Even when these fellas are like 30 mins away. Luckily, there are some other people who travel long distances from other provinces to play at Buenos Aires tourneys. Kinda restores the balance and hope. Kinda.

I'm trying to create a DOA scene down in Buenos Aires, Argentina. It's hard. I wish I could be anywhere near USA to get at least on some offline gathering.

Well, last year @Koompbala visited Argentina and we had a blast playing! Next time I'll try to gather more players :D
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
I agree completely to what Tom Lee said. I can see pretty much the same thing going on here at Buenos Aires fighting game scene (which is pretty much USFIV right now). There are a lot of people with a closed mindset saying they're not going to tourneys because they're not going to win. Even when these fellas are like 30 mins away. Luckily, there are some other people who travel long distances from other provinces to play at Buenos Aires tourneys. Kinda restores the balance and hope. Kinda.

I'm trying to create a DOA scene down in Buenos Aires, Argentina. It's hard. I wish I could be anywhere near USA to get at least on some offline gathering.

Well, last year @Koompbala visited Argentina and we had a blast playing! Next time I'll try to gather more players :D

Yeah it was fun I'd like to do it again. Show up around the same time frame too. That would give us a good amount of time. To get a handle on LR and MKX.
 

His Reverence

Papa Reverence, the Ayane Enthusiast.
Premium Donor
When people are afraid of loosing their game from fighting someone weaker, they aren't helping someone get to their level to keep them entertained.

losing*

With university comes unemployment! Here is hoping for a bit more time to spare, since I won't be dealing with a fulltime, 3rd shift, job.

NIU is also a fantastic place to force the game on a plethora of individuals.
 

Jyakotu

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Those in college usually have some video game club, which is an excellent way to get people interested in DOA. I do it in my university's FGC, which is primarily Ultra and GG right now with a dash of Smash. I have a few people to play DOA with, but I still usually just play by myself and online.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
When people are afraid of loosing their game from fighting someone weaker, they aren't helping someone get to their level to keep them entertained.

A lot of us don't feel it is our job to fight people we don't even have to actively think against. Nor do we find it productive for either party. Sure, it's a nice gesture and in small doses it could help someone, but all the time?

Personally I find that a low level player fighting a super high level player is a waste of time, unless its a tutoring session of some sort with actual instruction going on.

Low level players fight me, I beat them without trying. Next week, they try again, I beat them even harder because even the element of their randomness is gone from the equation.

The mountain is better climbed in increments. Fight people slightly better, not leagues better. That leads to incredible boredom on one side and frustration on the other. It does nothing for anyone.

The best thing to do is make your own rooms sometimes. That way you control who you fight.

I'd be a lot more willing to dump a bunch of time fighting random lesser skilled players if I thought it actually did help them improve. But if that was the case the vast majority of rooms out there wouldn't be full of bad players. The thirst for improvement won't let a player hold back if they truly have it. They'll find a way to get the matches they need.

There is nothing more painful than boring yourself to death trying to help someone who just doesn't get it and probably never will. Not everyone is like that of course, but most are. So I remove myself from the teacher situation, as do some others. If somebody truly has that hunger, they will eventually hit my radar on their own.
 
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Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I thought he was being sarcastic.
I was being optimistic in my own way, which is something I haven't tried in a while.

If certain people actually read the last paragraph (let alone my follow-up post to @d3v), that would've been easy to figure out.
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
A lot of us don't feel it is our job to fight people we don't even have to actively think against. Nor do we find it productive for either party. Sure, it's a nice gesture and in small doses it could help someone, but all the time?

Who put you on your high horse? No one should have to feel feel privileged to fight with you. It is, however, a suggestion, and i highly recommend taking advantage of those with mics.

Personally I find that a low level player fighting a super high level player is a waste of time, unless its a tutoring session of some sort with actual instruction going on.

You could always be like "dude, i just kicked your tail 3 times in a row, when you think i'm gonna strike, you could totally block more."

Low level players fight me, I beat them without trying. Next week, they try again, I beat them even harder because even the element of their randomness is gone from the equation.

Then you tell them. This isn't nintendo, you can talk to people.

The mountain is better climbed in increments. Fight people slightly better, not leagues better. That leads to incredible boredom on one side and frustration on the other. It does nothing for anyone.

Yeah, which is especially true for the online training sessions, too. Walk away with a list of things to do, and you just end up frustrated when you come back and end up with the same list. However, that has alot to do with the learning curve of the game.

The best thing to do is make your own rooms sometimes. That way you control who you fight.

I'd be a lot more willing to dump a bunch of time fighting random lesser skilled players if I thought it actually did help them improve. But if that was the case the vast majority of rooms out there wouldn't be full of bad players. The thirst for improvement won't let a player hold back if they truly have it. They'll find a way to get the matches they need.

If that were the case, you'd find a way to get the players you need. To make things worse, you have more experience in the game and can't find 'em, so that noob has it rough. What if you had a noob offline to play with?

There is nothing more painful than boring yourself to death trying to help someone who just doesn't get it and probably never will. Not everyone is like that of course, but most are. So I remove myself from the teacher situation, as do some others. If somebody truly has that hunger, they will eventually hit my radar on their own.

And this is the issue. The game's got a bunch of frustrated teachers, who only want to teach on a specific level. There are people who want to leave that level that's lower than the people want to teach on, but there's no instructional material between ground and that level. People see things like cows videos then think they can hop into Team Best, then they smack into information overload. When too many people do this, the instructors get frustrated. The real issue is, no one has any idea how to go about teaching that intermediate area (i've been trying to break out of it for a while, but i'm not sure if i have or not yet). Worst part is, the fastest way to get out of that intermediate level is with very careful and specific instruction (the real issue is to handle the information overload: the level exists between reading all the tutorials and actually putting them to practice [let's face it, tutorial mode conditions are not controlled right]).

But, yeah, i know all about frustration. My programming tutorial on my website was made so i wouldn't deal with the lazy people who keep giving up. I have all the lessons done (it's now becoming outdated), but i made an offer that I'd post the rest of the lessons as soon as someone with absolutely no programming knowledge manages to pass a test on the covered material. It's been about 2 or 3 years now, and not one person who came to me asking for programming instruction managed to get through it. Mind you, i always told them that the setup they can skip and i'd gladly walk them through it, since there is no nice way to do it. The offer is up for you as well, especially since it'd be a learning experience. I did my best to prevent information overload or using the "magical fairy box" principle, but I have a feeling it's still going to sting a little. You'll find it under "learning materials" at http://kohlrak.sytes.net. Also, the Japanese section is where I ended up landing on your principle, and i'm still questioning whether or not i should remove that, because, in the end, i end up rambling more than i actually teach and i don't think i ever get around to teaching basic Japanese.

Lemme know if you ever find a practical solution to information overload, because then I have quite a few tutorials to rewrite.
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
Playing online is not a job. Nobody is obligated to waste time on their own personal time doing something unproductive. There is such a thing as a skill gap and running 3-5 matches with someone online won't close it. People want help, they need to find it in the right places and move up. You don't go to a martial arts studio and train one on one with the highest ranked person there. You get thrown in with the 5-year-olds starting out and work your way up.
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
Playing online is not a job. Nobody is obligated to waste time on their own personal time doing something unproductive. There is such a thing as a skill gap and running 3-5 matches with someone online won't close it. People want help, they need to find it in the right places and move up. You don't go to a martial arts studio and train one on one with the highest ranked person there. You get thrown in with the 5-year-olds starting out and work your way up.

Depends on the art. Go JKD and you usually here "you guys could use the review, so." But, alas, there needs to be an actual investment. If you're not going to win 3 matches and give a decent piece of advice, you aren't helping, and thus have no right to complain about the quality of matches. It's like people who complain about politicians, but refuse to vote.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
Man, remember NEC5? I showed up, played some 3.1 with Bill and y'all, got my butt kicked in our 10 man 3.1 tournament. I still remember Bill saying "Man, everyone wants to play my Hayate in DOA3!" "I'd like to fight your Leon..." "Alright man, no problem."

-Lmao, Yes Sir I do remember! I am actually trying to make it down for Winter Brawl. I also have to come down and see ya so we can get some old school training...damn I miss those :-(
 
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