DOA5LR Ayane Newbie

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Controlling space is showing you are comfortable in the areas of space you're at, while also making it an objective for the opponent to figure out how to approach you.

The other thing about whiffing comes down to the question of good whiffing and badly whiffing. Good whiffing is whiffing a move at the right range(s) and you are not going to be punished for it (doing it when the opponent is not looking for what you're doing in particular). Badly whiffing is whiffing moves with at incorrect moments with poor spacing.

Going against a character that some better range in certain things than you is to just learn when they like to use that move. Looking for it, and making adjustments to stop it or punish it when you know it's coming. Also Ein does not have greater range than Ayane, when people are zoning, they are generally relying on moves that have good range so that's hard to approach if you don't know what to look for. The best way to deal with zoning is to get within their strike range but not necessarily commit to much, or anything.

Doing so allows you to see how soon they press a button and which button they generally go for. And how often they press a button(s) in their strike range. This is how you can develop your whiff punishment based on the actions the opponent is making.

As for the Hayate match up, I'll actually come back to that with more detail since I'm in the middle of training at the moment.
 

Makeshift

New Member
I've improved but find getting a rhythm vs better players hard.

Below are 2 games vs Hayate to show roughly how they go (I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong in this MU). Really see that I need to stop using 4P as much. Should I just hit jab instead? Feels like if I do then someone can mash buttons onto it and get through.

The IcyMist X guy was on a 255 match streak by the time I played him and in the first match he "great"ed me 2/3 rounds. The last set of his Hitomi shows what I mean by I'm never sure when to push buttons: it feels like every time I push them I get counter hit and if I don't then he just dominates me with throws and momentum etc... Would really appreciate any other input, I will continue working on my ranged game, it has been a bit better in the easier matches with more space and the opponents less sure of their ranges.

 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Looks like I'm joining into the fray since I have taken a genuine interest in Ayane. I am willing to take my time to learn her and to develop her. @Makeshift, if you want to have some matches please hit me up so we might be able to have some Ayane mirrors soon.

LoL I knew you would eventually make your way here. :)
 

Makeshift

New Member
Good games today @KING JAIMY , there are a couple of videos above in the previous post from 13th Jul and a few Ayane mirrors here that I would really appreciate some critique on and what I should do to improve from here, @iHajinShinobi (now that you kicked ass at EVO!!!) and @Force_of_Nature

I realise that I shouldn't be dropping juggles (and hitting BT PPP4P instead of BT PP4PP8K) but I can't seem to consistently do it correctly online, so much easier offline. Anyway, all input welcome!

 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Watched all the videos. I can definitely see the flaws in my own play, although the lag is partly to blame for that.
 

Makeshift

New Member
Couple from last night with @KING JAIMY . As always, input welcomed from the Ayane gods. Can't understand why I keep dropping 66KK4, 4P-K juggles online :( Also need to never PPP4 again.

 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
@Makeshift you're actually getting better from a few weeks ago. I'm seeing some throw punishment and some whiff punishment. You're getting a better handle of your neutral game up close too, you're not looking as fragile up close as you once were. Keep playing, and continue to work on your juggles. That is pretty much all I have to say for now, at least.

Post up a new video when you're ready to and I'll see what's new by then.
 

Makeshift

New Member
@iHajinShinobi Thank you for the kind words and taking an interest. An annoying problem I seem to have at the moment is following up after 3H+K connects online, offline I can almost always get 3H+K~66~BT4K~BT7K but not online apparently. Same with my Stun~H+K~66KK4~BT4P-K juggle :-(

Been trying to work BT 3KKK/2K and 64T into my game but kinda got beat up a bit. Feel like its got worse over the last week. Also Hayabusa is a character which confuses the living daylights out of me. And all the Hayabusa streamers seem to do a lot of winning with him so it's not an ideal way to learn how to play vs him. Any input appreciated!

 

Makeshift

New Member
Last uploads for a while.

Good sparring @Toi Stori, all my replays of our games corrupted but well played. Still can't consistently connect 3H+K~66~H~66KK4~BT7K online or offline. Other than stopping PPP4, not dropping juggles and always 64T other than when punishing, could do with some guidance :(

 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
The main problem I'm seeing now is that you're struggling to establish any kind of spacing during the matches now. Each set, I saw attempts to play some spacing against the opponents but they weren't allowing you to do it. It's because they're not being given any reason to respect anything yet. The Jab and 2P usage are good, but you're misplacing of jab at range is starting to get you counter hit more often. It's very noticeable in the Jannlee match up at the very bottom.

Using jab at range for poking is actually rather difficult to do and really requires you to understand the range on it and your opponent's rhythm during footsies/spacing to make your use of jab at range very effective. I can do it really well since my footsies are strong, but poking that way will take time. It will be easier for you to use something like 5K, 6P, 3P or 3K to hit opponents at those same hittable ranges you're trying to with jab attempts.

6P and 6PK are good mids for you during footsies, and 6PK is much safer on block at -6 since it would be blocked at a distance, can't punish it. 6P is good because of 6PK and 6P3, allowing you to go into the forward spin if you so choose with 6P3 and you have follow ups.

That's pretty much the issue I'm seeing you have right now.

For a couple other tips; Against characters with a slower strike speed like Leon, your 2P low is very abusive in those match ups. It will force those characters to hold low, side step, block low or mash something out. Good use of 2P coupled with jab/PP (strings are optional) can help you keep some control up close in those match ups. Things like Jab > BT8P to create space can keep them honest as well since by doing so, it will keep your CQC neutral a bit more unpredictable (this is actually potent in every match up). You can use your 6P and 6K mids as well of course (and their follow ups if you choose to).

In those kinds of match ups, Leon is forced to fight for a neutral game up close against Ayane. 2P is a problem for him.

Keep practicing the 3H+K > 66KK4 BT7K combo, that is actually a tough one to hone at first glance. Its also hard to do online.

Last thing I'd recommend, is that if you're whiffing punishing with 4K, you can follow up with 4P to launch and juggle with the usual BTPP4PP7K or BTPP6P~K for 60+ damage. I think you whiff punished the Kokoro player with 4K once and didn't capitalize on it. 4K is one of Ayane's best moves for whiff punishing. You earn really good damage for doing so.
 

Makeshift

New Member
Thank you Hajin, I will switch to the mids for range poke and work on the footsies. I have found that if I get too 2p heavy then I just get crushed by mids, am I doing something wrong there or do I need to hold mid/go mid myself once I've baited them into going for it?
 
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