DOA5U Bass Throw Punish Thread

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:akira:


:6::h::+::P:

:P::P: (+1)(-8) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::K: (+1)(-12) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::4::P::+::K: (-4)(-17) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:1::P: (-8) (:high:) (NT)
:4::3::P::2::P: (-1)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
WR :4::6::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:8::K: (-7) (:high:) (NT)
:6::6::K::K: (-15)(-20) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::+::K: (non-power blow) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::P::+::K::P: (-12)(-7) (:mid:)(:mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::6::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (T)
:4::6::6::P::+::K: (-32) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-7) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K::P: (-17)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:H*+K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::+::K: (-6)(-15) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::4::6::6::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::K: (+1)(-12) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:4::3::P::2::P: (-1)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
WR :4::6::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
*:6::6::K::K: (-15)(-20) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::+::K: (non-power blow) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::6::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (T)
:4::6::6::P::+::K: (-32) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K::P: (-17)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:H*+K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::+::K: (-6)(-15) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::4::6::6::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)



:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:P::K: (+1)(-12) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
WR :4::6::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
*:6::6::K::K: (-15)(-20) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::+::K: (non-power blow) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::6::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (T)
:4::6::6::P::+::K: (-32) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K::P: (-17)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:H*+K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::+::K: (-6)(-15) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::4::6::6::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)



:h::+::P:
:4::P::P::+::K: (-2)(-6) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:3::P: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::P: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::6::P: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::K::P: (-12)(-6) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:3::K: (-6) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::+::K: (-6) (:mid:) (NT)
:214::P::+::K: (-5) (:mid:) (T)



:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:
:2::K: (-11) (:low:) (NT)
SS :K: (-10) (:low:) (T)
:3::P::+::K: (-8) (:low:) (NT)



:3::h::+::P:
:2::K: (-11) (:low:) (NT)



TFBB
:4::6::6::P::+::K: (-32) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::h::+::K::P::4::6::6::P::+::K: (-6)(-12)(-24) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
 
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UncleKitchener

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Mila's list is complete. It just needs a bit of testing before it's finalized.

If anyone can review it in the OP and give some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.

Once I'm done with Mila, the next would be Bass. I'm open to suggestions as to who should be done afterwards, but I think I'd go for Jann Lee if I get no suggestions.
 
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UncleKitchener

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:mila:
Generally, the thing with the Mila MU and especially punishment is that you need a bit of experience because you also want to punish her guard-cancels and take down attempts and once you can identify those situations and get used to some of the timing on the throw punishment, you'll be fully fluent in terms of punishment when it comes to this character.


:6::h::+::P:

:P::K: (-5)(-7) (:high::high:) (NT)(T)
:P::P::P::P: (-5)(-7)(-11)(-9) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::6::P: (-5)(-7)(-11)(-11) (:high::high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: Last hit has good recovery, so either mash the punish or do it early)
:P::P::K: (-5)(-7)(-7) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::2::K: (-5)(-7)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::1::K: (-5)(-7)(-8) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P::P::P: (:h:) (-8)(-10)(-11) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:7::P::P: (:h:) (-11)(-9) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:7::P::1::K: (-11)(-8) (:high::low:) (T)(NT)
:6::P::P: (-11)(-11) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT) (Note: Last hit has good recovery, so either mash the punish or do it early)
:4::P::P: (:h:) (-12)(-9) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::2::K: (-12)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (:high::low:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::1::K: (-12)(-8) (:high::low:) (NT)(NT)
:3::P::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:K::P: (-7)(-13) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:3::K:(:h:):K: (-6)(-7) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T)
:9::K: (-15) (:high:) (NT)
:7::K: (no charge) (-7) (:mid:) (NT)
:2::K::P::P::P: (-14(-13 on hit))(-8)(-11)(-11) (:low::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
SS :K: (-7) (:mid:) (T)
:P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
non PB :4::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::+::K: (-9) (NT)
:6::H+K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::h::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: Only attempt to punish this when either of you have your back to a corner or very close, though this is more of a spacing tool, so Mila players use this more often at open ground. Even when you're in rage for a throw punish, I would recommend his i6 punish. Generally, this is one thing you won't want to throw punish and instead use an attack/use an OH).
:1::H+K: :P::P::P: (:h:) (-8)(-8)(-10)(-11) (:low::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :P::+::K::P: (-12)(-12) (:mid:x8 :mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I do no recommend side-stepping the first part of this string as the machine gun punches cannot be sidestepped).



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::P::P::P: (-5)(-7)(-11)(-9) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::6::P: (-5)(-7)(-11)(-11) (:high::high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: Last hit has good recovery, so either mash the punish or do it early)
:P::P::2::K: (-5)(-7)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P::P::P: (:h:) (-8)(-10)(-11) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:7::P::P: (:h:) (-11)(-9) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:6::P::P: (-11)(-11) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT) (Note: Last hit has good recovery, so either mash the punish or do it early)
:4::P::P: (:h:) (-12)(-9) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::2::K: (-12)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (:high::low:) (NT)(NT)
:3::P::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:K::P: (-7)(-13) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:9::K: (-15) (:high:) (NT)
:2::K::P::P::P: (-14(-13 on hit))(-8)(-11)(-11) (:low::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
non PB :4::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::+::K: (-9) (NT)
:6::H+K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::H+K: :P::P::P: (:h:) (-8)(-8)(-10)(-11) (:low::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :P::+::K::P: (-12)(-12) (:mid:x8 :mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I do no recommend side-stepping the first part of this string as the machine gun punches cannot be sidestepped).



:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:3::P::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3::3::P: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
:K::P: (-7)(-13) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:9::K: (-15) (:high:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :P::+::K::P: (-12)(-12) (:mid:x8 :mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I do no recommend side-stepping the first part of this string as the machine gun punches cannot be sidestepped).



:h::+::P:
:P::P::P::K: (-5)(-7)(-11)(-5) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::6::K: (:5: :h::+::P:) (-5)(-7)(-6) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::2::K: (-5)(-7)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::P::K: (-11)(-5) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I would suggest mashing normal throw as the long recovery makes it hard knowing when to punish)
:4::P::K: (:5: :h::+::P:) (-12)(-6) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:7::P::K: (-11)(-5) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I would suggest mashing normal throw as the long recovery makes it hard knowing when to punish)
:8::K: (-5) (:high:) (T)
:4::K:(:h:) (-6) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :P: (-6) (:mid:) (NT)




:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:
:1::P: (-12) (:low:) (T)
:2::H+K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
:3::h::+::K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :2::P: (-12) (:low:) (T)



:3::h::+::P:
:1::P: (-12) (:low:) (T)
:2::H+K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
:6::6::h::+::P::5::h: > :2::P: (-12) (:low:) (T)


Misc.

On block, it is possible to react and punish OH transitions mid-string with a low throw. This is pretty much guaranteed on all options, and will catch her during her OH recovery before she is able to use any of her feint options. This is pretty much guaranteed that is if you do react to it and punish her.

Her Takedown OH transitions are:
:3::K::h::+::P:
:P::P::6::K::h::+::P:
:P::P::4::P::K::h::+::P:
:4::P::K::h::+::P:
:1::h::+::K: :h::+::P:
:4::K: :h::+::P:
:7::P: :h::+::P:
SS :6::h::+::P:

Her guard-cancel transitions are:
:4::P::P::h:
:8::P::P::P::h:
:7::P::P::h:
:2::K::P::P::P::h:
:1::h::+::K::P::P::P::h:

The :1::h::+::K: transition is both guard-cancellable and can also transition into take down.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Bass' list almost done. Might put it up after a little more editing.

I think I'll go with Rachel next since I want to get the easier ones done first.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
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:bass:


:6::h::+::P:

:9::P::P: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:8::P: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::K: (-4)(-17) (:mid::high:) (T)(NT)
:4::P::P::P::+::K: (-4)(-10)(-8) (:mid::mid::high:) (T)(T)(NT)
:4::4::P: (-9) (:mid:) (T)
:3::P: (-7) (:mid:) (NT)
:2::P::P: (-7 (-5 on hit))(-8) (:low::high:) (NT)(NT)
:1::P::P::+::K: (-16)(-8) (:low::high:) (T)(NT)
:8::K: (-17) (:high:) (NT)
:7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::K::P: (-10)(-10) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::K::K: (-10)(-12) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:2::K: (-10) (:low:) (NT)
:1::K::P: (-12 (-6 on hit))(-9) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K: (-8) (:high:) (NT)
:7::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K::K: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:3::P::+::K: (-28)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: The first hit is highly punishable, so far as being punishable by all throws in the game, including a BT TFBB. The second hit is your usual -12 punishable move)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P: (-8) (:high:) (NT)
SS :K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
BT :4::K: (-11 ~ -12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:9::P::P: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:8::P: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::K: (-4)(-17) (:mid::high:) (T)(NT)
:4::4::P: (-9) (:mid:) (T)
:8::K: (-17) (:high:) (NT)
:7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::K::P: (-10)(-10) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::K::K: (-10)(-12) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:2::K: (-10) (:low:) (NT)
:1::K::P: (-12 (-6 on hit))(-9) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:7::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K::K: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:3::P::+::K: (-28)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: The first hit is highly punishable, so far as being punishable by all throws in the game, including a BT TFBB. The second hit is your usual -12 punishable move)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
BT :4::K: (-11 ~ -12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)




:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:9::P::P: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::K: (-4)(-17) (:mid::high:) (T)(NT)
:8::K: (-17) (:high:) (NT)
:7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::K::K: (-10)(-12) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::+::K::K: (-9)(-14) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:3::P::+:K: (-28)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: The first hit is highly punishable, so far as being punishable by all throws in the game, including a BT TFBB. The second hit is your usual -12 punishable move)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
BT :4::K: (-11 ~ -12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :7::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)



:h::+::P:
:7::P::P: (no charge) (-2)(-5) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::+::K:(:h:+::P:) (-6) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: if held or simple blocked, the move is punishable. However if the opponent does the follow up, then it cannot be throw punished as the throw transition is 1 frame faster than a normal throw)



:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P: & :3::h::+::P:
:P::P::2::P: (-2)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:9::P::K::2::P: (-9)(-10)(-16) (:high::mid::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
Running :P: (-3 ~ -16) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This move is incredibly hard to make safe, so it's generally a good idea to go for a low throw punish)
:2::h::+::K: (+1 on deep hit, otherwise -31 on far hit) (:low:) (NT) (Note: This move only breaks guard when both feet connect with a blocking hurt box)
BT :2::K: (-15) (:low:) (NT)



Misc.
:3::3::P: (-12) (:mid:) (NT) is a very common launcher as is usually used on its own, so it's not a bad idea to punish it if you sense no follow up. But you still have to be careful.
 
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UncleKitchener

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Doing Sarah's list after finding her MU not as bad as initially thought. Knowing unsafe moves I think would really benefit it and make it 6-4 to Sarah, but she's not as safe as people give her credit.
 

UncleKitchener

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Standard Donor
Found a decent shortcut for :3::3::h::+::P: :

:236::2::3::h::+::P:

Easy to do on both sides and more reliable in my opinion than pure :3::3: buffer. Also, this is good when trying to react to holds as the :236: acts as both the WR and :6: motion for a TFBB and the low throw. Good for when you know an opponent is bound to hold more than just SE or just wait.

Half way through Sarah's list. Fuck my sanity.
 
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UncleKitchener

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:sarah:
Sarah hasn't got much block stun on her hit usually, so it's kind of the same deal as Christie where you have to punish her early, which means that mashing is good when punishing her.


:6::h::+::P:

:P::P::P::K: (+1)(-5)(-8)(-19) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::7:/:4::K: (+1)(-5)(-8)(-27) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K: (+1)(-5)(-7) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::P::K: (-5)(-18) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::K:(:K:):4::K: (-3)(-8)((-7))(-14) (:high::mid::high:( :high:x2 ):mid:) (T)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::P::P: (-3)(-6) (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:K::K: (-6)(-15) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
WR :K::K: (-17)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
WR :K::5::K: (-17)(-17) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:9::K:(:P::+::K:) (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-27) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::K::K: (-5)(-8) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::6::K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: not punishable at max range)
:3::K::K:(:h:) (-5)(-15) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:1::K: (-15) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: must be punished very early due to complete lack of block stun. Be very mindful of this)
Running :K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::P::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:2::P::+::K::K: (-10)(-15) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:2::P::+::K: (non PB) (-10) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This is NOT punishable in open space due to the pushback. Only in corners)
:9::h::+::K::P::P::K: (-3)(-3)(-5)(-12) (:mid::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:7::h::+::K:(PL) (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::h::+::K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: not punishable at max range)

Flamingo



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:





:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:




:h::+::P:
:P::P::P::8::K: (+1)(-5)(-8)(-6) (:high::high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::K: (+1)(-5) (:high::high:) (NT)(T)
:4::P::K:(:K:):h::+::K: (-3)(-8)((-7))(-6) (:high::mid::high: ( :high:x2 ) :high:) (T)(NT)(NT)(T)
:4::4::K::K:(:h:) (-4)(-5) (:high::high:) (T)(T) (Note: not punishable at max range)
:6::P::+::K::P:(:6:) (-2)(-5) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:236::P::+::K: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
:8::h::+::K: (-6) (:mid:) (T)
SS :K: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)


:2::h::+::P:
:2::P: (-5) (:low:) (NT) (Note: requires good reaction to punish, so get used to it).
:2::K: (-15 (-4 on hit)) (:low:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K: (-19) (:low:) (T)
:2::h::+::K: (-15) (:low:) (NT)


:3::3::h::+::P: & :3::h::+::P:
:2::K: (-15 (-4 on hit)) (:low:) (NT)
:3::h::+::K: (-19) (:low:) (T)

BT :h::+::P:

:9::K::P::+::K: (-45) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This is guaranteed on reaction and probably the best punish for it, seeing as you have multiple different choices after the OH).


Misc.
:3::h::+::K: is also punishable by :3::K:. Give it a try.


I can't be bothered with Sarah any more, so I'll just put it on hiatus and just move onto something else.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:momiji:


:6::h::+::P:
:P::P::P::4::P: (-2)(-6)(-9)(-11) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K::P: (-2)(-6)(-14)(-9) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::K: (-2)(-7) (:high::high:) (NT)(T)
:8::P: (-11) (:high:) (NT)
:6::P::P: (-12)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::K::P: (-12)(-14)(-9) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::6::P::P: (-5)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:4::4::P:(:8:) (-8~-10) (:mid:) (T)
:3::P::4::P::P: (-9)(-10)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(T)(T)
:3::3::P: (-7) (:high:) (NT)
:236::P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10 (-7 on hit))(-13) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:K::P: (-10)(-8) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:8::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:6::K::P: (-14)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::6::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::K::P:(:8:) (-8)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T) (Note: jump cancelable, so watch out. Going for a high crush is not a back options)
:2::K: (-9 (-3 on hit)) (:low:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::+::K: (non PB version) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:236::P::+::K: (PL) (-22) (:mid:) (NT)
:236::P::+::K::P::P::P: (-22)(-19)(-19)(-9) (:mid::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:h::+::K: (-5~-7) (:high:) (T) (Note: only punish when you block a deep hit. A shallow one is always safe)
:6::h::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
(:9:):P::P: (-17)(-10) (:high::high:) (T)(T)
(:9:):P::K: (-17)(-15) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
BT :P: (-8) (:high:) (NT)
BT :4::P::P: (-3)(-7) (:mid::high:) (T)(NT)
BT :K: (-7) (:high:) (T) (Note: while the same as :h::+::K:, it consistently more punishable due to her moving forward).


:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::P::P::4::P: (-2)(-6)(-9)(-11) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K::P: (-2)(-6)(-14)(-9) (:high::high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P: (-11) (:high:) (NT)
:6::P::P: (-12)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::K::P: (-12)(-14)(-9) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::6::P::P: (-5)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:4::4::P:(:8:) (-8~-10) (:mid:) (T)
:3::P::4::P::P: (-9)(-10)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(T)(T)
:236::P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10 (-7 on hit))(-13) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:8::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:6::K::P: (-14)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::6::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::K::P:(:8:) (-8)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T) (Note: jump cancelable, so watch out. Going for a high crush is not a back options)
:2::K: (-9 (-3 on hit)) (:low:) (NT)
:4::P::+::K: (non PB version) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:236::P::+::K: (PL) (-22) (:mid:) (NT)
:236::P::+::K::P::P::P: (-22)(-19)(-19)(-9) (:mid::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:h::+::K: (-5~-7) (:high:) (T) (Note: only punish when you block a deep hit. A shallow one is always safe)
:6::h::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
(:9:):P::P: (-17)(-10) (:high::high:) (T)(T)
(:9:):P::K: (-17)(-15) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)



:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:

:6::6::P::P: (-5)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:3::P::4::P::P: (-9)(-10)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(T)(T)
:236::P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10 (-7 on hit))(-13) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:8::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:6::6::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:236::P::+::K: (PL) (-22) (:mid:) (NT)
(:9:):P::K: (-17)(-15) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)



:h::+::P:
:P::P::4::P: (-2)(-6)(-5) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:4::P: (-5) (:mid:) (T)
:214::P::P::+::K: (-6)(-6) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: not actually holdable or SSable due to jailing.)
SS :K: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)
:K::K: (-10)(-6) (:high::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: not actually holdable or SSable due to jailing. Only SS the first hit and use SS :P: to punish.)
:9::K: (-5) (:high:) (T)
:4::K: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)



:2::h::+::P:
:2::P: (-5) (:low:) (NT)
:1_::P::K: (-10 (-7 on hit))(-15) (:low::low:) (T)(T)
:2::h::+::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
BT :2::P: (-5) (:low:) (T)
BT :2::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)


:3::3::h::+::P:

:1_::P::K: (-10 (-7 on hit))(-15) (:low::low:) (T)(T)
:2::h::+::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
BT :2::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)


:3::h::+::P:

Pretty much whatever listed for :3::3::h::+::P:



Other

Momiji's major gimmick is her double jump and she has loads of ways to getting into it. Once you visually see it and learn how to get out of it, it becomes a lot easier concentrating on punishing and just playing this game. Or maybe you just want to hold an opponent and get in their head.

She has two different type of jumps. First is the hop and the second is the flight stance. The hop is accessible manually by :9::P: and has a few moves from that hop and can also transition into the hop from some strings.

String/moves which transition into hop:
:P::P::8:
:4::4::P::8:
:3::K::P::8:

while in the hop, she has access to these options:
:P::P: (:high::high:) (T)(T)
:P::K: (:high::mid:) (T)(NT)
:K: (:mid:) (NT) (We'll touch more on this in a little bit)

Now, you may not be seeing these options be used much outside of hit, because a) they're all, with the exception of the :K: option are unsafe and easily avoidable and b) Bass has some good options to avoid these with options like :4::4::P::+::K: (needs buffer and decent timing to beat out all options, but tends to miss, but very good answer to the :K: option as it is the most abusive), :426::P::+::K: (consistently beats out all the above options) and even a simple :2::P::P:/:1::P: (cannot beat the :K: option).

Still, it's good to know these options for when you're in stun and feel like you have a good read on someone.

One particular option that is very abusive in this case, is the :K: option which transitions into flight stance, so let's get into that now:

:9::P::P::+::K: is the standard way of getting into the flight stance.

This is the most abusive tool often used by Momiji players. Kind of like Zato's Eddie spawn or Jam's card. It has to be used.

She has a couple of standard ways of getting into this stance from string:
:P::P::K::K: (:high::high::mid::mid:)
:6::P::K::K: (:mid::mid::mid:)
:6::K::K: (:mid::mid:)
(notice the pattern?)

These are not easy to react to and takes time to train yourself to visually react to them or it's also a very good idea to buffer mid kick hold when pressing buttons, to have the option select to fall back on. Bass' mid kick holds are good damage and keeps an opponent close to you. Just be mindful of fake outs and throws to punish your holds. As much as it may psychologically affect you, that shouldn't necessarily deter you from stopping the abuse of the flight stance.

When you do actually end up getting caught with this stance, keep in mind that she has a select few options from the flight stance:
:P: (:high::mid:) (NT) Two-hit GB move that leave her at -1
:K: (:high:) (NT) Cause a non-staggerable faint stun and double as her secondary CH. -2 on block
:h::+::P: (:high:) This is her launcher throw which gives her damage. As a heavy weight character, you can still take good damage, but it's not as bad what light-meds take in comparison, but it's best not to get caught with this in the first place.
:P::+::K: (:mid:) PB. It's fairly noticeable and you can potentially react to it and punish it.

General advice when you're actually hit during the transition (like a :6::K::K: on hit) is to just hold low and get hit with the :P:. That way you minimize the damage taken and avoid further mixups or worse get caught by the throw while holding. She does have a pseudo FT from that situation with :1::P::1::K:, but if you tech and block/hold the second kick, that should also force the opponent to explore other options and not play a brain dead game.

On block however, it's a different story as outside of hop to flight transitions (like :9::P::P::+::K:), she transitions straight into it from a GB (+14) and all the options can be fuzzy guarded and throw punished with the exception of the :P: and the :P::+::K:, which require different approaches such as holding or SS as both are mid punches.

@Mr. Wah @HajinShinobi can you both have a look at this for mistakes or any issues? Thanks in advance.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:jannlee:
Jann Lee is rather unique as he has probably the most strike-punishable moves on block in this game, which ends up making this list rather long. I would highly suggest you look into his frames and compare notes with mine. I tried to get the most out of it, so hopefully it would be useful against that rare Jann Lee that you might encounter in future.


:6::h::+::P:

:P::P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-12) (:high::high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::6::P:(:[[P]]:) (-1)(-4)(-10)(-13 (+6)) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:P::P::P::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (:high::high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)
:P::P::4::P::P:(:[[P]]:) (-1)(-4)(-5)(-8(unblockable) (:high::high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: The charged unblockable deals zero damage on block but gives him +8)
:P::P::2::K::K: (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:high::high::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::K: (-1)(-10) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:P::2::P:(:4:):P: (-1)(-12)(-9) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P::P::P: (-6)(-13)(-8) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(T)
:8::P::P::K: (-6)(-13)(-10) (:high::high::high:) (T)(T)(T)
:6::P::P: (-12)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::P:(:4:):P: (-20)(-7)(-18) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT) **
:2_::5::4::6::P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::4::P::P:(:[[P]]:) (-5)(-13 (+8)) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:3::P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P:(/:[[P]]:) (-13 (+12)) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::P: (-12 (-9 on hit))(-19) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:1::P::K:(:4:) (-12 (-9 on hit))(-11(-10)) (:low::high:) (NT)(NT)
:K::K::K: (-10)(-16)(-9) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:K::4::K::P: (-9~-10)(-16)(-13) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:9::K::K: (-13)(-13) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:8::K: (-9~-10) (:high:) (T)
:7::K: (-15) (:high:) (T)
:6::K::K: (-9)(-15) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T) (Note: can be punished by :6::h::+::P: on deep hit, but shallow hit gives no punishment opportunities, so keep that in mind)
:6::K::4::6::K: (-9)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:4::K::K::P: (-11)(-13)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::K::K: (-9)(-11) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T)
:3::K::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:3::K::4::K:(:4:):P: (-9)(-17)(-13) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:2::K::K: (-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:low::mid:) (NT)(T)
:1::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
:6::P::+::K::P: (-8)(+2) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: I still list this here due to the fact that usually the CB is used on it's own, especially in situations such as stun. Knowing that it's punishable is by itself important)
:4::P::+::K: (No charge/Non PB) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::h::+::K:(:4:) (-11(-8~-9)) (:high:) (NT) (Note: He's usually at -9 when there is a stance transition)
:4::h::+::K::K: (-18)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (T)(T)
BT :7::P: (-11~-13) (:high:) (T) (Note: Usually a good bet to punish this with any throw)
BT :K: (-8~-9) (:high:) (T)
BT :4::K: (-9) (:mid:) (T)
(FUFT) :P::+::K::P: (+8~+10)(-8) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT) (Note: Special wakeup option for FUFT position)


Dragon Stance
:6::P: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-8) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-21) (:high:) (NT) (Note: Can't be sidestepped anyway due to multiple hits)
Post :6::h:/:4::4::h::+::P::+::K: (-19) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This is only for the post-parry situation where you have blocked his parry punch. This is fairly useless as it's more of a taunt and very punishable if you're not baited and instead decide to throw him. However, I had to put it in for completion sake).



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-12) (:high::high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::6::P:(:[[P]]:) (-1)(-4)(-10)(-13 (+6)) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:P::P::P::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (:high::high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)
:P::P::2::K::K: (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:high::high::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::K: (-1)(-10) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:P::2::P:(:4:):P: (-1)(-12)(-9) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P::P::K: (-6)(-13)(-10) (:high::high::high:) (T)(T)(T)
:6::P::P: (-12)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::P:(:4:):P: (-20)(-7)(-18) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:2_::5::4::6::P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::4::P::P:(:[[P]]:) (-5)(-13 (+8)) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:3::P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P:(/:[[P]]:) (-13 (+12)) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::P: (-12 (-9 on hit))(-19) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:1::P::K:(:4:) (-12 (-9 on hit))(-11(-10)) (:low::high:) (NT)(NT)
:K::K::K: (-10)(-16)(-9) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:K::4::K::P: (-10)(-16)(-13) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:9::K::K: (-13)(-13) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:8::K: (-9~-10) (:high:) (T)
:7::K: (-15) (:high:) (T) (Note: :4::h::+::P: tends to whiff on shallow block)
:6::K::K: (-9)(-15) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T) (Note: only use :236::h::+::P: for 8i punishment)
:6::K::4::6::K: (-9)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:4::K::K::P: (-11)(-13)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::K::K: (-9)(-11) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T)
:3::K::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:3::K::4::K:(:4:):P: (-9)(-17)(-13) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:2::K::K: (-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:low::mid:) (NT)(T)
:1::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
:4::P::+::K: (No charge/Non PB) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::h::+::K:(:4:) (-11(-8~-9)) (:high:) (NT) (Note: He's usually at -9 when there is a stance transition)
:4::h::+::K::K: (-18)(-11) (:mid::mid:) (T)(T) (Note: Only :236::h::+::P: is guaranteed)
BT :7::P: (-11~-13) (:high:) (T) (Note: Usually a good bet to punish this with any throw)
BT :K: (-8~-9) (:high:) (T)
BT :4::K: (-9) (:mid:) (T)


Dragon Stance
:6::P: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-21) (:high:) (NT) (Note: Can't be sidestepped anyway due to multiple hits)
Post :6::h:/:4::4::h::+::P::+::K: (-19) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This is only for the post-parry situation where you have blocked his parry punch. This is fairly useless as it's more of a taunt and very punishable if you're not baited and instead decide to throw him. However, I had to put it in for completion sake).



:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:P::P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-12) (:high::high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P::6::P:(:[[P]]:) (-1)(-4)(-10)(-13 (+6)) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)
:P::P::P::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (:high::high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)
:P::P::2::K::K: (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:high::high::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:4::P::P:(:4:):P: (-20)(-7)(-18) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::P:(:[[P]]:) (-5)(-13 (+8)) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:3::3::P:(/:[[P]]:) (-13 (+12)) (:mid:) (NT)
:1::P::P: (-12 (-9 on hit))(-19) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:K::4::K::P: (-10)(-16)(-13) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
:9::K::K: (-13)(-13) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
:7::K: (-15) (:high:) (T)
:6::K::4::6::K: (-9)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:4::K::K::P: (-11)(-13)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::K::P: (-9)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(T)
:3::K::4::K:(:4:):P: (-9)(-17)(-13) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:2::K::K: (-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (:low::mid:) (NT)(T)
:1::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
:3::3::P::+::K: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
BT :7::P: (-11~-13) (:high:) (T) (Note: Usually a good bet to punish this with any throw)


Dragon Stance
:6::P: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-21) (:high:) (NT) (Note: Can't be sidestepped anyway due to multiple hits)
Post :6::h:/:4::4::h::+::P::+::K: (-19) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: This is only for the post-parry situation where you have blocked his parry punch. This is fairly useless as it's more of a taunt and very punishable if you're not baited and instead decide to throw him. However, I had to put it in for completion sake).



:h::+::P:
:236::P: (-6) (:high:) (T)
:8::h::+::K: (-2~-5) (:mid:) (NT) (Note: only attempt to throw on close hit.)



:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:
:P::P::2::K::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::6::P::2::K: (-1)(-11)(-20) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(T)(T)
:P::2::P::2::K: (-1)(-12)(-15) (:high::mid::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:6::6::P::2::K: (-8)(-20) (:high::low:) (T)(T)
:6::P::2::K: (-12)(-15) (:mid::low:) (NT)(T)
:2::K::2::K: (-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (:low::low:) (NT)(T)
:2::h::+::K: (-18) (:low:) (T)
:3::P::+::K: (-17) (:mid:) (NT) (NB: :3::3::h::+::P: an be done by holding :3_: and mashing throw. The input buffer system will register it as a crouch dash)
BT :2::K: (-12) (:low:) (T)


:3::h::+::P:
Everything listed above.
:3::P::+::K: (-17) (:mid:) (NT) (No point in using this since the buffer selects the better option if you try to mash this)



TFBB
:P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: hard to buffer and get the crouch buffer at the same time, but it's possible)
:P::P::P::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (:high::high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)
:1::K: (-14) (:low:) (T) (Note: Hell of a lot easier to pull off as long as you react quick enough)
Dragon Stance :6::P::+::K: (-21) (:high:) (NT)



Strike punishment
Jann Lee is unique in the sense that he has moves which are so unsafe that they are punishable by strikes and there's a list of them along with possible punishment. Some moves are also punishable by strikes only. This section is going to be very long as these are rather specific.


:P::P::K: (-1)(-4)(-16) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :6::K::P:

:P::P::P::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (:high::high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:

:6::6::P::K: (-8)(-18) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
Punishable by: :K:, :6::K:P:, :3::K::K:, :3::3::P::P:, :6::6::h::+::P:

:P::6::P::K: (-1)(-11)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(T)(T)
Punishable by: same as above

:4::P::P:(:4:):P: (-20)(-7)(-18) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :K:, :6::K::P:, :3::3::P::P:

:1::P::P: (-12 (-9 on hit))(-19) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :K:, :6::K::P:, :3::K::K:, :3::3::P::P:, :7::K:, :9::P::P:

SS :K: (-18) (:high:) (T)
Punishable by: :3::K::K: (NB: second hit might whiff in this situations), :3::3::P:

:P::+::K: (-7) (:mid:) (NT)
Not really punishable, but the fact that you can use anything faster than 17i without the fear of holds is good thing. Jann Lee players also cannot step back to avoid either :3::K: or :3::3::P: at close hit. At shallow block, just stand there as you may whiff

:K::4::K::P: (-10)(-16)(-23) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(NT)
The reason why I put this on this list is due to :K::4::K: on its own being one of those tools very often used by JannLee players for spacing. Pretty much the only thing which can punish it is :K: as everything else whiffs.

:3::K::4::K:(:4:):P: (-9)(-17)(-13) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
Same as above, except you have another frame to potentially use your 15i mids as in this case :3::K::K:.

:1::K: (-14) (:low:) (T)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:

:7::K: (-15) (:high:) (T)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :K:, :6::K::P:

:6::K::K: (-9)(-15) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T)
Punishable by: :K: is a very consistent punish for this move.

:2::h::+::K: (-16~-18) (:low:) (T)
Punishable by: :6::K::P:, :3::K:, :6::P::K:(:6::P: on crouching hit causes critical stun) (Note: It's hard to get the safe version of this move. If you block this deep, then it would be a good idea to punish it).

:3::P::+::K: (-17) (:mid:) (NT)
Punishable by: :6::K::P:, :3::K::K:

Dragon Stance :6::P::+::K: (-21) (:high:) (NT)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :K:, :6::K::P:, :3::K::K:, :3::3::P::P:, :7::K:, :9::P::P:

Post :6::h:/:4::4::h::+::P::+::K: (-19) (:mid:) (NT)
Punishable by: :P::+::K:, :K:, :6::K::P:, :3::K::K:, :3::3::P::P:, :7::K:, :9::P::P:

Guaranteed :3::K: into sit-down stuns
(:P::P:):2::K::2::K: (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)
:P::6::P::2::K: (-1)(-11)(-20) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(T)(T)
:6::6::P::2::K: (-8)(-20) (:high::low:) (T)(T)
:2::K::2::K: (-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (:low::low:) (NT)(T)
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:rachel:
She has a short movelist and not a whole lot of things to keep in mind.


:6::h::+::P:

:P::P::K: (-1)(-6)(-7) (:high::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::4::P: (-1)(-6)(-8) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::2::K: (-1)(-6)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:8::P: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:7::P: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::P::K: (-11)(-12)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::6::P: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:3::P::P::P: (-11)(-7)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:214::P: (-15) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10(-5 on hit))(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:9::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:8::K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:2::K: (-8) (:low:) (NT)
:4::P::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:h::+::K: (-7) (:high:) (T)
:4::h::+::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:2::h::+::K: (-12) (:low:) (NT)
SS :P: (-10) (:mid:) (T)
:2:/:8::P::+::K: -->:P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :2::P::P: (-10)(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
BT :4::K: (-7)



:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::P::2::K: (-1)(-6)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:7::P: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::P::K: (-11)(-12)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::P::P::P: (-11)(-7)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:214::P: (-15) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10(-5 on hit))(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:9::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:8::K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::h::+::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:2::h::+::K: (-12) (:low:) (NT)
SS :P: (-10) (:mid:) (T)
:2:/:8::P::+::K: -->:P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :2::P::P: (-10)(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)



:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:P::P::2::K: (-1)(-6)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::P::P::K: (-11)(-12)(-12) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:3::P::P::P: (-11)(-7)(-12) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:214::P: (-15) (:mid:) (T)
:1::P::P: (-10(-5 on hit))(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)
:9::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-12) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::h::+::K: (-12) (:high:) (NT)
:2::h::+::K: (-12) (:low:) (NT)
:2:/:8::P::+::K: -->:P: (-12) (:mid:) (T)
BT :2::P::P: (-10)(-15) (:low::mid:) (T)(T)




:h::+::P:
:9::P: (-6) (:high:) (NT)
:6::P::K::K: (-11)(-5)(-5) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:K::K: (-11)(-5) (:high::high:) (NT)(NT)
:6::K::K: (-5)(-5) (:mid::high:) (NT)(NT)
SS :K: (-5) (:mid:) (NT)




:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:
:4::P::P::2::P: (-10)(-10)(-16) (:mid::mid::low:) (T)(T)(T)
:2:/:8::P::+::K: --> :K: (-15) (:low:) (T)
BT :2::K: (-15) (:low:) (T)



:3::h::+::P:
Anything punishable by :2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:.



TFBB​

:P::P::2::K: (-1)(-6)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: requires very good timing)



Misc.​

:P::P::h::+::P: This is a fairly popular opening for Rachel players, however, what makes this a good idea to try and punish this with throws is that it'll force a Rachel player to go for other options. Your throw damage is high and you can quite effortlessly take away a lot of health. Alternatively, duck and throw punish it during recovery.

This does not however work with the :P::P::2:/:8::P::+::K: transitions, so be mindful.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
I remember telling Kwiggle that in the :P::P: string situation I'm always mashing :4::H+P: because the reward for the throwing the high probable OH followup is so high over getting put into a hi-counter stun threshold. I haven't checked but I think all of the other string options put you in a rather shallow stun. Maybe :P::P::K: would put you in the "jab" stun.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Almost done with Helena's. Should be moving onto something else.

Too bored with Sarah to actually finish it. Should I move onto Eliot or Mary Rose? I thinking of doing Eliot first if it's shorter, then maybe Mary Rose since she seems to be used often by people generally.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:helena:
Frame Data
Has a lot of punishable lows.


:6::h::+::P:

:P::P::4::P::P: (-3)(-10)(-10)(-9) (:high::mid::mid::mid:) ((NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P: (-3)(-10)(-9) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K: (-3)(-10)(-8) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:P::K::K::K: (-3)(-9)(-10~-11)(-10~-11) (:high::high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: I do not recommend SSing the K strings)
:9::P:(:4:):P: (-10)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):K: (-10)(-8) (:mid::high:) (NT)(T)
:9::P:(:4:):4::K: (-10)(-14) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:8::P::P:(:4:) (-10)(-10(-6)) (:high::high:) (NT)(T)
:7::P::K::K: (-10)(-13)(-14) (:mid::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::P:(:4:):P: (-12)(-10) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
:6::6::P:/Running:P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::P::P: (-17)(-14)(-9) (:mid::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:3::P::P:(:4:):P: (-14)(-12(-8))(-10) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(T)
:3::P::4::P: (-14)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3_::P::P: (-13)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:214::P::P: (-11)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:K::K::K: (-9)(-11)(-12) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::K: (-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-11) (:mid:) (T)
:6::6::K::P::P:(:[[P]]:) (-13)(-13)(-8(+2)) (:low::low::mid:) (NT)(T)(T(NT)) (Note: full charge on the third hit does not track)
:4::K::K: (-15)(-12) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
:3::K::K::K: (-10)(-16)(-11) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:2::K::K: (-13(-11 on hit))(-14) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:1::K:(:2:):P:(:[[P]]:) (-12(-6))(-8) (:low::mid:) (NT)(T)
:P::+::K::P: (-15)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::+::K::P: (-8)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::+::K: (Non-Pb version) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::4::P::+::K: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P: (-10) (:mid:) (T)

BKO
:P::P::P: (-3)(-9)(-10) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K: (-3)(-9)(-9) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::6::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-13) (:high:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)

BT
:P::P::P::P: (-2)(-2)(-15)(-10) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::P::P::P: (-2)(-2)(-17)(-14)(-9) (:high::high::mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::K: (-2)(-2)(-11) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::2::P: (-2)(-2)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:7::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P: (-8) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::P::K: (-11)(-11)(-14) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (T)
:4::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-8) (:mid:) (T)




:4::h::+::P: & :236::h::+::P:
:P::P::4::P::P: (-3)(-10)(-10)(-9) (:high::mid::mid::mid:) ((NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::P: (-3)(-10)(-9) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::K::K::K: (-3)(-9)(-10~-11)(-10~-11) (:high::high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT) (Note: I do not recommend SSing the K strings)
:9::P:(:4:):P: (-10)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):4::K: (-10)(-14) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:8::P::P:(:4:) (-10)(-10(-6)) (:high::high:) (NT)(T)
:7::P::K::K: (-10)(-13)(-14) (:mid::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::P:(:4:):P: (-12)(-10) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
:6::6::P:/Running:P: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::P::P: (-17)(-14)(-9) (:mid::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:3::P::P:(:4:):P: (-14)(-12(-8))(-10) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(T)(T)
:3::P::4::P: (-14)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3_::P::P: (-13)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:214::P::P: (-11)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:K::K::K: (-9)(-11)(-12) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::K: (-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)
:7::K: (-11) (:mid:) (T)
:4::K::K: (-15)(-12) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
:3::K::K::K: (-10)(-16)(-11) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:2::K::K: (-13(-11 on hit))(-14) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K::P: (-15)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:6::P::+::K::P: (-8)(-9) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::P::+::K: (Non-Pb version) (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::4::P::+::K: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)
SS :P: (-10) (:mid:) (T)

BKO
:P::P::P: (-3)(-9)(-10) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::K: (-3)(-9)(-9) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::6::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-13) (:high:) (NT)
:P::+::K: (-9) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::P::+::K: (-11) (:mid:) (NT)

BT
:P::P::P::P: (-2)(-2)(-15)(-10) (:high::high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::P::P::P: (-2)(-2)(-17)(-14)(-9) (:high::high::mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::K: (-2)(-2)(-11) (:high::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:P::P::2::P: (-2)(-2)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:7::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::P::K: (-11)(-11)(-14) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (T)
:4::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)




:214::h::+::P: & :624::h::+::P:
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):4::K: (-10)(-14) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:7::P::K::K: (-10)(-13)(-14) (:mid::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:3::P::4::P: (-14)(-13) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:3_::P::P: (-13)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:214::P::P: (-11)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:K::K::K: (-9)(-11)(-12) (:high::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::K::K: (-15)(-12) (:high::mid:) (T)(T)
:3::K::K::K: (-10)(-16)(-11) (:mid::high::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:2::K::K: (-13(-11 on hit))(-14) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:P::+::K::P: (-15)(-12) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::+::K: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)

BKO
:6::6::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:K: (-13) (:high:) (NT)

BT
:P::P::2::P: (-2)(-2)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:7::P: (-13) (:mid:) (NT)
:4::P::P::K: (-11)(-11)(-14) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:K: (-12) (:high:) (T)
:4::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)




:h::+::P:
:8::P::P::4: (-10)(-6) (:high::high:) (NT)(T) (Note: BT transition)
:6::K::P: (-8)(-5) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)

BKO
:6::P::P::P: (-12)(-11)(-5) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::P::K::P: (-5)(-8)(-5) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)

BT
:6::K::P: (-8)(-5) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)





:2::h::+::P: & :3::3::h::+::P:
:P::P::4::P::2::P: (-3)(-10)(-10)(-10) (:high::mid::mid::low:) ((NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::2::K: (-3)(-10)(-9) (:high::mid::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):2::K: (-10)(-9) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:8::P::P:(:4:):2::P: (-10)(-10(-6))(-10) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(T)(T)
:4::P::P::8::K: (-17)(-14)(-8) (:mid::high::high:) (T)(T)(NT)
:4::P::P::K::K: (-17)(-14)(-9)(-9) (:mid::high::mid::low:) (T)(T)(NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::2::P::P::K: (-9)(-13)(-18)(-13)(-13)(-9) (:high::high::mid::low::low::low:) (T)(T)(T)(T)(NT)
:8::K: (-8) (:high:) (NT)
:214::P::K: (-11)(-12) (:mid::low:) (NT)(T)
:1::P::P::K: (-13)(-13)(-9) (:low::low::low:) (T)(T)(NT)
:6::K::K: (-8)(-9) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:1::K:(:2:):K: (-12(-6)(-12) (:low::low:) (NT)(T)
:214::P::+::K: (-10) (:mid:) (NT)
:6::6::h::+::K: (-5) (:high:) (NT)
:2::h::+::K: (-9) (:low:) (NT)
SS :K:(:2:) (-16(-10)) (:low:) (T)

BKO
:P::P::2::K: (-3)(-9)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)
:6::P::P::K: (-12)(-11)(-8) (:mid::mid::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::P::K::K: (-5)(-8)(-9) (:mid::mid::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:6::K::K: (-9)(-9) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:2::K:(:2:) (-16(-10)) (:low:) (T)
:h::+::K: (-8) (:high:) (NT)

BT
:P::P::4::P::P::K::K: (-2)(-2)(-17)(-14)(-9)(-9) (:high::high::mid::high::mid::low:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:P::P::4::P::P::8::K: (-2)(-2)(-17)(-14)(-8) (:high::high::mid::high::high:) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::P::P::2::P::P::K: (-11)(-11)(-13)(-13)(-9) (:mid::mid::low::low::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)(NT)
:4::P::K: (-11)(-6) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:2::P: (-10(-5 on hit)) (:low:) (T)
:1::P: (-10) (:low:) (NT)
:6::K::K: (-8)(-9) (:mid::low:) (NT)(NT)
:2::K: (-9) (:low:) (NT)
:6::6::K:(:2:) (-6(0)) (:low:) (T) (Note: Can be made safe with the BKO transition)





:3::h::+::P:
:214::P::K: (-11)(-12) (:mid::low:) (NT)(T)
:1::K:(:2:):K: (-12(-6)(-12) (:low::low:) (NT)(T)

BKO
:P::P::2::K: (-3)(-9)(-12) (:high::high::low:) (NT)(NT)(T)




Strike Punishment
Below are strikes that are punishable by :P::+::K:;
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):4::K: (-10)(-14) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:7::P::K::K: (-10)(-13)(-14) (:mid::low::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
:2::K::K: (-13(-11 on hit))(-14) (:low::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::+::K: (-15) (:mid:) (NT)

BT
:4::P::P::K: (-11)(-11)(-14) (:mid::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:4::K: (-14) (:mid:) (NT)
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)



Punishable by :6::K: or :K:
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)
:9::P:(:4:):4::K: (-10)(-14) (:mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)

BT
:P::P::4::K: (-3)(-10)(-14) (:high::mid::mid:) (NT)(NT)(NT)



Punishable by :3::3::P:
:4::4::P::P::P: (-9)(-13)(-18) (:high::high::mid:) (T)(T)(NT)
 
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
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