DOA5U Bound state

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So, you know there's this bound state (I think that's what it's called), when the character starts rolling backwards.

k1of3qH.gif

Most characters have a follow up option from this, but not Momiji. (Without a wall, of course)
You can trigger it by doing :6::6::K:, :624::P::P+K:, BT :4::K: for example.

I was curious if this is really such a useless mechanic for this particular character, so I went into the dojo. After a couple of minutes I realized that no matter what move I use, it will never connect. I had to take a different approach. That's when I thought that maybe I'll be able to come up with unholdable setups for this scenario.

*An unholdable setup requires the opponent to tech roll and not guard right after waking up.*

Here are the setups I've found so far, I'll update this opening post once I discover more.

66K method (works on every weight class)
1, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :6::P:
2, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :K: (opponent can duck under it by low holding)
3, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :2::P:

In the first example you have two options. One of them is another :P:, which is very easy to read. The other option is :K:, from which you can either do a :P: for a knockdown or :K: to transition to Tenku and do one of the 4 'finishers'. (:P:, :K:, :P+K:, :F:)

In the second example you have the option to do a :P: after :K: for another high hit, but it's pretty risky. I recommend using another :K: after the unholdable :K:. (If the opponent is smart enough to guard right after waking up, :K::K: is -6 on block, so they can only do a neutral throw on you, which you can break by pressing :F: at the right time.)

No options to follow up from the 3rd example and no stuns either.

6K method
1, :6::K::h: (has to whiff), :6::6::P::P:
2, :6::K::h: (has to whiff), :4::K:

The first example will launch the opponent and you're free to do your usual juggle depending on the weight of the opponent.

There's really no benefit of doing the second example, it doesn't cause any stun.

1P method
1, :1::P::h: (has to whiff), :6::6::P::P:

This will launch the opponent and you're free to do your usual juggle depending on the weight of the opponent.

6P method (works on every weight class)
1, :6::P::h: (has to whif), :236::P:

This method is an instant launch and you're free to do your usual juggle depending on the weight of the opponent.

4K method
1, :4::K: (has to whiff), :P+K:

:P+K: puts your opponent into faint stun, which means they'll collapse if they don't press anything. I recommend launching right after.

9P method (works on every weight class, not consistent)
1, :9::P: (hop), :214::P+K:

I'm not quite sure why, but this only works if your opponent tech rolls to the foreground. The frame advantage is exactly the same if they tech roll to the background, but for some reason this move whiffs in that situation.


Here are some ideas on what to do if you were able to do what I just described.

:K::P:, :H+K:, :P+K: CB! (Very risky, because the first 3 hits are all high, but it works sometimes)

:K::K:, :6::P::K::P:, :8::P:, :6::P::K::K::P: (Works on all weight classes)
 
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KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
So, you know there's this bound state (I think that's what it's called), when the character starts rolling backwards.

k1of3qH.gif

Most characters have a follow up option from this, but not Momiji. (Without a wall, of course)
You can trigger it by doing :6::6::K:, :624::P::P+K:, BT :4::K: for example.

I was curious if this is really such a useless mechanic for this particular character, so I went into the dojo. After a couple of minutes I realized that no matter what move I use, it will never connect. I had to take a different approach. That's when I thought that maybe I'll be able to come up with unholdable setups for this scenario.

*An unholdable setup requires the opponent to tech roll and not guard right after waking up.*

Here are the setups I've found so far, I'll update this opening post once I discover more.

Universal way (works on every weight class)
1, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :K:
2, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :6::P:
3, :6::6::K: (has to whiff), :2::P:

In the first example you have the option to do a :P: after :K: for another high hit, but it's pretty risky. I recommend using another :K: after the unholdable :K:. (If the opponent is smart enough to guard right after waking up, :K::K: is -6 on block, so they can only do a neutral throw on you, which you can break by pressing :F: at the right time.)

In the second example your only option is another :P:, which is very easy to read. Not to mention that the unholdable :6::P: doesn't cause any stun.

No options to follow up from the 3rd example and no stuns either.

Here are some ideas on what to do if you were able to do what I just described.

:K::P:, :H+K:, :P+K: CB! (Very risky, because the first 3 hits are all high, but it works sometimes)

:K::K:, :6::P::K::P:, :8::P:, :6::P::K::K::P: (Works on all weight classes)
Good find. The bound BT 4K was pretty useless to me but this helps. If I (accidentally) get the bound, I usually go for psuedo-force tech: 66 (dash) - 6H+K.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Yeah, I never go for this bound either, but sometimes I don't pay attention to the stun treshold and get it instead of a BT 4K sit down. It's just an idea on how to react to this situation. Better be prepared for all scenarios.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I never go for this bound either, but sometimes I don't pay attention to the stun treshold and get it instead of a BT 4K sit down. It's just an idea on how to react to this situation. Better be prepared for all scenarios.
That's true. However, you should be able to do some combos if you do BT 4K with your opponent close to the wall. By this I do not mean a wall splat, but a wall carry/approach in which your opponent bounds close to the wall so your opponent will not be sent flying backward anymore, but still bounds regardless.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
That's true. However, you should be able to do some combos if you do BT 4K with your opponent close to the wall. By this I do not mean a wall splat, but a wall carry/approach in which your opponent bounds close to the wall so your opponent will not be sent flying backward anymore, but still bounds regardless.

Yes, I know that. I even pointed it out in the opening post that she has no option to do a follow up without a wall nearby that stops the opponent from rolling backwards too far. I'm not sure I'll create any video/post about that case, because that rarely ever happens. Next time I'll talk about unholdable setups from a low kick hold.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Doesn't Run ~ H+K connect?

I'm pretty sure I've tried it several times and it doesn't. I hope they'll turn it into something like 236H+K or K in Last Round. THEN it would connect.
 

DrDam

Member
You can get 6PKKP out of her BT4K bound but only if you're close to your opponent when doing the kick. It won't work after say, 44K, 4K but it will after 214P, 4K.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
You can get 6PKKP out of her BT4K bound but only if you're close to your opponent when doing the kick. It won't work after say, 44K, 4K but it will after 214P, 4K.

Are you doing this with a wall nearby? Because that's a different story. My post was about getting a bound in an open space.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I swear I gotta learn this unholdable stuff. This doesn't apply to the hidden frame data, does it?

Actually, it does. Your frame advantage is 60 after getting a bound which is "too much" and you need to reduce it by doing a move (the ones that whiff in these cases) until you can land a move that's [your advantage+1].
 

DoANoob

Well-Known Member
Actually, it does. You have X amount of frame advantage after getting a bound which is "too much" and you need reduce it by doing a move (the ones that whiff in these cases) until you can land a move that's [your advantage+1].
Crap..This is why I hate math.
 

Corza

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's easier than it seems. I've edited my previous post a bit, by the way. (Also, the opening post has been updated!)

Go into training mode, pick Ayane as your opponent. Set the AI's reaction to hold mid kick (for this example's sake) and turn the recovery on. If you do a simple 236P and hold right after, your frame advantage will be displayed as 0, but it's actually greater than 31. (A hold is 31 frames long)
To bring out the actual data, you need to hold again. If you hold twice after 236P, it will display 27. One hold+27 makes 58. Now that's too much. You need to reduce it by doing something. Since your opponent is right in front of you and pretty much anything you do would hit him, do a hold. Which will put you at +27. That means if you can find a move that's 28 frames, you're golden. Fortunately, Momiji's 6H+K is exactly 28 frames.

So now if you launch your opponent with 236P, hold and then do 6H+K, then she won't be able to hold it.

This is a bad setup, I just wanted to show a very basic example. You should keep in mind that frame advantage depends on the weight of your opponent, so one setup won't work on everyone.
 
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