Breaking Down the Game: A Training Suggestion for Aspiring Players

Discussion in 'Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate System Discussion' started by Game Over, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    Breaking Down the Game
    A Training Suggestion for Aspiring Players








    Our game, DOA4, has been out for quite a while now. Yet, as I look around, player knowledge and skill level in the game seems to be on a very uneven curve. There are a small percentage of players who stand out far from the bunch, but the rest of players seem to either

    A) Be going about development the wrong way
    B) Not put enough effort into developing
    C) Not care
    D) Be struggling on finding ways to develop

    I can't help the "B" and "C" crowd, but I can try to contribute something to aid the "A" and "D" crowd. In this post, I will provide a basic rundown of a training method I feel will work well for an aspiring player to adopt. This is also a training method that I am personally putting to use in my own time.

    Breaking down the game, IMO, is very much similar to learning a craft or mastering a hobby or acquiring a new skill, etc. It's about learning how things work, where things branch out, how components interact, etc. In the case of DOA4, there is

    Learning the Components of the Game
    Learning Fundamental Offensive and Defensive Skills
    Learning a Character's MoveList
    Learning the Properties of a Character's MoveList
    Learning the Strengths and Weaknesses of a Character
    Learning Ideal Strategies for a Character
    Learning How a Character Matches Up Against Other Characters
    Learning Other Characters
    Learning How to Read Your Opponent
    Learning How to Read Yourself


    I will cover each of these subjects, starting with


    Learning the Components of the Game

    RULE #1: Start from scratch.

    The basic components of DOA4 are attacks, holds, and throws. In the game, attacks beat throws, throws beat holds, holds beat attacks. This simple structure is referred to as the triangle system.

    Attacks

    • Attacks come in various forms of punches, kicks, knees, shoulder strikes, body strikes, headbutts, etc., according to the character being used. When an attack successfully hits the opponent, the attack will cause damage, and may also connect with STUN, LAUNCH, or KNOCKDOWN properties.
    • STUN attacks inflict a stun status on the opponent, usually granting the player various amounts of frame advantage. Depending on the amount of frame advantage, the player can followup with an attack to extend the stun, an attack to launch the opponent, an attack to knockdown the opponent, or simply use the frame advantage to restrike the opponent before he/she can strike the player. Note that many stuns can SLOW-ESCAPED, speeding up the opponent's recovery from the stun.
    • LAUNCH attacks are powerful moves which send the opponent into the air for a followup juggle, air-throw, untechable, wall-hit, etc. Some attacks will launch on normal hit, all will launch on counter hit and hi-counter hit, and will launch while the opponent is in a stun status. The opponent can do nothing while launched in the air.
    • KNOCKDOWN attacks are moves that knock the opponent to the ground. On normal hit, counter hit, hi-counter hit, and during stun, the opponent will be knocked to the ground with a successful knockdown hit. Many knockdown attacks also have KNOCKBACK properties that send the opponent flying away from the player and into a wall if a wall is within range.

    Holds

    • Holds, simply, are moves designed to reverse an opponent's attack. There are holds for all 3 HIT LEVELS in the game, high, mid, and low, and mid holds are split for mid punches and mid kicks. Holds cause various amount of damage to the opponent, will sometimes have LAUNCH properties, and will occasionally grant frame advantage.
    • Some characters also have parries or advanced holds that will grant frame advantage and/or deal slight or heavy damage to opponent.

    Throws

    • Throws, simply, are moves designed to grab the opponent and cause damage when the opponent is not attacking. Throws can go through the opponent's blocks and the opponent's holds. There are throws for standing or ducking opponents. Some throws, referred to as Offensive Holds (OHs), have the special property of being able to grab the opponent while he/she is attacking.


    Learning Fundamental Offensive and Defensive Skills

    RULE #2: Learn fundamentals or be beaten by fundamentals.

    Fundamental Offense

    Fundamental offense comprises offensive elements that are universal to mostly every character. This are things everyone should practice executing.
    • STUN. Find moves that stun the opponent and practice using them.
    • WORK THE STUN. Practice extending the stun, launching a stunned opponent, knocking down a stunned opponent. Practice alternating these things.
    • LAUNCH. Practice launching the opponent in various situations. Preferably, keep this to situations where opponent is stunned or when you have frame advantage.
    • JUGGLE. Practice various juggles when the opponent is launched in the air.
    • GROUND GAME. Practice hitting the opponent with attacks while he/she is on the ground. Also practice following up on FORCED TECHUPS.
    • CRUSH. Identify and practice using moves that crush attacks of a certain hit level. Some attacks crush high attacks. Some attacks crush low attacks. Some attacks crush attacks of multiple hit levels.
    • TRIANGLE SYSTEM-ATTACK. Practice attacking the opponent when they whiff a throw. Jab is easiest. Launch is preferred.
    • TRIANGLE SYSTEM-THROW. Practice throwing the opponent when they whiff a hold. Normal throw and quick command throw are easiest. Most damaging throw is preferred.

    Fundamental Defense

    Fundamental defense comprises defensive elements that are universal to mostly every character. This are things everyone should practice executing.
    • BLOCK. Practice blocking attacks. High/Mid and Low. Most attacks give you frame advantage on block.
    • SPACE. Practice spacing yourself from the opponent. Spacing baits the opponent to charge in or whiff an attack, allowing you to PUNISH.
    • PUNISH. Practice punishing the opponent. Punish unsafe attacks on block. Punish whiffed attacks. Throws, jabs, quick mids, launchers, or knockdown attacks can be used to punish depending on character position/range and frame advantage. The ability to punish is VERY important and VERY underappreciated defensive skill.
    • INTERRUPT. Practice interrupting slow string attacks, slow crush attacks, and slow launch attacks with jabs or quick mids of your own. Interrupting is also useful when the opponent whiffs an attack, you move in, and they try to attack again. Note that interrupting is a tricky defensive skill, and some characters are better at this than others.
    • SLOW-ESCAPE. Practice slow-escaping out of stuns when the opponent stuns you. Toss away the hold crutch and make slow-escaping a main part of your defense.
    • TRIANGLE SYSTEM-HOLD. Practice holding the opponents attacks. Preferably, limit this to slow string attacks, sweeps, slow launchers, and charge attacks. DON'T SPAM THE HOLD.
    • TRIANGLE SYSTEM-THROW. Practice throwing the opponent when they try to OH you. Normal throw and quick command throws are easiest.


    Learning a Character's MoveList

    RULE #3: Become ONE with your character.

    • Go to sparring mode. Go through a character's movelist exercise multiple times. First time slow. Second time slightly faster. Third slightly faster. Each time after, faster than the last. Use Versus mode and Online mode to "confirm" the memorization of moves. The goal is to be able to command ALL of your character's moves by pure instinct (no thought) at anytime. Return to sparring mode if confirmation fails.
    • After confirming the character's moves to memory, do the same practice with the character's various juggles. Refer to threads showing character's master file combos for reference. Practice each juggle until each one can be done on pure instinct.


    Learning the Properties of a Character's MoveList

    RULE #4: Study your character.
    • Go to sparring mode. Have hit levels displayed at the bottom of your screen. Throw out each attack in the character's movelist, looking at each hit level, memorizing each hit level. Watch the animation for each move. Learn to distinguish the hit level based on the animation. Do this multiple times. Use Versus mode and Online mode to confirm memorization.
    • Identify the attacks that stun the opponent.
    • Identify any crush attacks, and the hit level the attack crushes.
    • Identify any sabaki attacks. Set CPU dummy to punch/kick at various hit levels to identify the levels the sabaki works against, and to get a feel for properly timing the sabaki.
     
    #1
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  2. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    Learning the Strengths and Weaknesses of a Character

    RULE #5: Your character's strengths are your strengths. Your character's weaknesses are your weaknesses.
    • Go to sparring mode. Reflect on your previous training. Think about your character. Identify the character's strengths. Identify the character's weaknesses. Identify offensive strengths/weaknesses. Identify defensive strengths/weaknesses. Look up frame data on the character for a more in-depth perspective.
    • Practice focusing on the character's strengths. Practice hiding the character's weaknesses. Mold your play style around what the character is good at.


    Learning Ideal Strategies for a Character

    RULE #6: Build your plan of attack.
    • At this point, lots of matches need to be played. Use the matches to practice and solidify the lessons of your previous training, and to figure out the best ways for your character to win. Limit mistakes, limit carelessness, play solid.


    Learning How a Character Matches Up Against Other Characters

    RULE #7: Know thy enemy.
    • After building solid play with a chosen character, take time to break down other characters. Not to the full extent, just to the point of learning their moves, the properties of their moves, and their strengths and weaknesses.
    • Compare the strengths/weaknesses of your character to the strengths/weaknesses of other characters to help formulate character-specific matchup strats.


    Learning Other Characters

    RULE #8: Expand, unless you're content with an army of one.
    • Different characters provide you differents sets of strengths/weaknesses and matchup possibilities. Enter training with alternate characters if so desired.


    Learning How to Read Your Opponent

    RULE #9: Strike the weak point for massive damage.

    • This, again, is something that requires LOTS of matches. The focus of training here is on searching for the weaknesses of players themselves. Watch for patterns, habits, tendencies, etc. that expose a clear target for you to strike. At higher levels, you must genuinely outplay the other player to win.


    Learning How to Read Yourself

    RULE #10: You are your greatest opponent. Cover your weaknesses. Master your strengths. Your only limit is the limit you set upon yourself. Be limitless. See limitless success.

    • The final lesson takes you full circle. Never stop learning. Never stop progressing. Never stop.
     
    #2
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  3. virtuaPAI

    virtuaPAI Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Main Character:
    Tina Armstrong
    Gamertag:
    Virtuapai
    Great thread. The only thing that I have a concern with, is the interchangeability with the word counter and Hold. A counter don't necessarily mean defensive hold(DH). With that said, it would be better to use the word defensive hold(DH).
     
    #3
  4. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    So hold is the more recognized term? I'll make that edit if that's the case.
     
    #4
  5. Mr. Wah

    Mr. Wah Owner
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Main Character:
    Raidou
    Gamertag:
    Sorwah
    PSN ID:
    Sorwah
    It's just a common confusion in terminology. I mean you have "Counter Blow", "Counter Throw", and "Counter Hold". Which one is the "Counter"?

    The confusion came about because holds beat attacks, and naturally doing something that "counters" the player's choice is how the confusion began.
     
    #5
  6. HajinShinobi

    HajinShinobi New Member

    This is a very good guide man, solid and in-depth. As I read through it, I'm glad to know I was actually on the correct path when I played Ayane after reading this.

    This will definitely allow novice and beginning players to get an idea of how to get on the right path of becoming a better player. If they actually decide to read it anyway lol.
     
    #6
  7. Hurricane Rev

    Hurricane Rev Active Member

    Location:
    UK, East London
    Main Character:
    This is such a good thread for players who wants to learn the game.

    Good Stuffs Man.
     
    #7
  8. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    Guide edited. "Holds" replaces "counters" for less confusion in terminology.
     
    #8
  9. Red dragon

    Red dragon Member

    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    Main Character:
    Ayane
    Gamertag:
    iired drag0nii
    nice thread GO.
     
    #9
  10. Mr. Wah

    Mr. Wah Owner
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Main Character:
    Raidou
    Gamertag:
    Sorwah
    PSN ID:
    Sorwah
    Just want to say again, good stuff with this GO, especially with all the new players coming into DOA5.
     
    #10
    Game Over likes this.
  11. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    Nice to see this thread still has some use even with a new game.
     
    #11
  12. VirtuaKazama

    VirtuaKazama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Odenton, MD
    Main Character:
    Leifang
    Gamertag:
    Virtua Kazama
    PSN ID:
    VirtuaKazama
    One thing I noticed among inexperience players is that they try to go for every hold they see while their opponent is attacking. Any thoughts on that?
     
    #12
  13. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    I'd say due to the inexperience, those players treat holds as a "panic button" for situations when they are on the defensive. Without solid knowledge of an opposing character's strings, string-enders, goto moves, etc. and the reactions to respond more effectively (block and punish, crush and launch/knockdown, or simply correctly hold), it is easy to fall into this bad habit.

    This is kinda similar to players who might "spam" sidesteps in VF.
     
    #13
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  14. Prince Adon

    Prince Adon Well-Known Member
    Premium Donor

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    Yeah I hate that. I feel if you don't know a character play style, or the player style don't be too counter happy.
     
    #14
  15. VirtuaKazama

    VirtuaKazama Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Odenton, MD
    Main Character:
    Leifang
    Gamertag:
    Virtua Kazama
    PSN ID:
    VirtuaKazama
    Nothing wrong with blocking.
     
    #15
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  16. RoboJoe

    RoboJoe Well-Known Member

    Main Character:
    Gen Fu
    Something I think should be touched on here is that you should save your replays and analyze them. Being able to see your matches in a relaxed setting can help you see any mistakes are you making and can identify bad habits so you can correct them faster.
     
    #16
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  17. Game Over

    Game Over Well-Known Member

    Good point. That would fit with the last section, actually. Constant learning.
     
    #17
  18. Brute

    Brute Izuna Mod
    Staff Member Moderator Standard Donor

    Location:
    United States
    Donated:
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    PSN ID:
    Archghoul
    Overall, pretty good.

    Personally, I'd stress "other characters" more, though. Especially characters you struggle fighting against or fight against a lot. Even if you have no intention of playing them, memorizing their moves list (and more importantly when/how to counter their most devastating combo strings) and knowing their options can really give you an advantage.

    Example: If you face an opponent who chooses a character that's your main or an alt. main, they're typically far easier than others.
     
    #18
  19. J.D.E.

    J.D.E. Well-Known Member
    Standard Donor

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Donated:
    $5.00
    Main Character:
    Kasumi
    Gamertag:
    XX JDE XX
    PSN ID:
    oJDEo
    Great Thread.
    This was what Allan Paris meant by taking the time & learning the game. I started off on the wrong foot, but now it's time I did some serious break down with my main. I even had to go find out what frames were used for. That's how bad I started off.
     
    #19
  20. Julius Rage

    Julius Rage Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Main Character:
    Gamertag:
    Julius Rage
    Train em like a dog.

    I always like to start of simple when I'm showing people shit in DOA.

    "Hey, heres this cool juggle. Really simple, quick easy damage."

    "You know, you don't always have to counter right? Try doing a slow escape! A Slow Escape is when you spin the stick around really fast in a circle. Do it fast enough and you can escape a stun and go right back to blocking."

    Then they'll come back later and ask why SEing doesn't always work.

    "Well, there are three types of stuns you can't SE out of - let me show you real quick."

    Maybe I'll notice them finishing a lot of strings.

    "Hey, an easy way to mix things up is by stopping the string and tranistioning to another attack level. Do that by pressing the counter button during a string. It stops the combo cold and after a brief period you get to go for another attack. Confusing the opponent. I bet you'll eat less counters dog. . . "

    Thats where things start when I'm teaching the game - I want it to be organic. I don't like the idea of shoveling a bunch of combo's down a guy/girls throat. We'll play, they'll improve, I'll feed them information as I see them progress.

    They'll beat me when I play a character I don't practice with and when they get demolished by one I do understand they may ask "Why" and if I hear that often enough, then we really get after it.
     
    #20
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