Can this combo be stagger escaped?
- Thread starter Ciozun
- Start date
Depends in which way you are using it. Everything after 7K can't be stagger escaped of course because this move will launch. 6P+K on hit is a deep stun, so the opponent cannot slow escape 7K, but still hold it (except you used it on stun level 3, causing a critical burst).
*Edit* Actually, the opponent cannot slow escape anything because the 6P+K stun is a crumble stun which does not allow that.
Just make sure not to use 6P+K as initial stun because it is very slow.
*Edit* Actually, the opponent cannot slow escape anything because the 6P+K stun is a crumble stun which does not allow that.
Just make sure not to use 6P+K as initial stun because it is very slow.
Ciozun
Member
Thank you!
There is no difference, people use these two terms for describing the same thing, which is reducing the stun duration. I believe "stagger escaping" is the official term from the developers while "slow escaping" is more community slang.
Not necessarily. You "escape" from slower attacks, e.g. a lot of launching moves execute in 20 frames or above, so fastest stagger escaping can usually make you blocking them unless you aren't deep stunned.
Ciozun
Member
Wait, do you mean that the opponent can still hold 7P after a 6P+K?
What move do you suggest me before doing 6P+K?
Why doesn't make it sense to you? Simple example:
Kasumis KK will stun the opponent, giving me +19 advantage. Now after that initial stun, lets say I want to set him up for a juggle either with H+K, which executes in 17 frames or 8K that takes 12 frames.
If the opponent does not slow escape, both of these moves will hit him. H+K will turn him around for a big damage juggle, 8K will launch immediately.
With slow escape set to "fast", the AI will already block H+K because the advantage I get from the KK stun is only +14 now. H+K is now too slow for taking further advantage of the stun. My 8K will still hit because it only needs 12 frames to execute.
On "fastest" slow escape, my advantage from the KK stun will only be +11, so both H+K and 8K can be blocked. This means it limits my options for dealing more damage from a stun I was able to land and my opponent literally escaped from multiple situations that would have cost him a lot of hitpoints from a single stun he was put into.
I assume you mean 7K, and yes, he can do so. The crumble stun 6P+K causes will result in him falling down to the ground if:
- you don't launch or hit him in time
- he doesn't hold
6P+K is one of Kasumis slowest moves, it is your only attack that causes a critical burst and it is a mid punch, so people will try to hold that specifically.
You can actually use any other attack instead of this. You should only use 6P+K to land a critical burst, but only if you've set your opponent up for that before.
Simple setups for 6P+K usage, causing a critical burst, are:
On normal hit:
, , , , , , On counter-hit, you can shorten these to:
, , , , Both of these examples are either holdable or slow escapable though, but that's something you have to life with in general when you are playing Kasumi. She does not have many guaranteed / non-escapable stuff, especially not for 6P+K.
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Ciozun
Member
Why doesn't make it sense to you? Simple example:
Kasumis KK will stun the opponent, giving me +19 advantage. Now after that initial stun, lets say I want to set him up for a juggle either with H+K, which executes in 17 frames or 8K that takes 12 frames.
If the opponent does not slow escape, both of these moves will hit him. H+K will turn him around for a big damage juggle, 8K will launch immediately.
With slow escape set to "fast", the AI will already block H+K because the advantage I get from the KK stun is only +14 now. H+K is now too slow for taking further advantage of the stun. My 8K will still hit because it only needs 12 frames to execute.
On "fastest" slow escape, my advantage from the KK stun will only be +11, so both H+K and 8K can be blocked. This means it limits my options for dealing more damage from a stun I was able to land and my opponent literally escaped from multiple situations that would have cost him a lot of hitpoints from a single stun he was put into.
I assume you mean 7K, and yes, he can do so. The crumble stun 6P+K causes will result in him falling down to the ground if:
- you don't launch or hit him in time
- he doesn't hold
6P+K is one of Kasumis slowest moves, it is your only attack that causes a critical burst and it is a mid punch, so people will try to hold that specifically.
You can actually use any other attack instead of this. You should only use 6P+K to land a critical burst, but only if you've set your opponent up for that before.
Simple setups for 6P+K usage, causing a critical burst, are:
On normal hit:
On counter-hit, you can shorten these to:
Both of these examples are either holdable or slow escapable though, but that's something you have to life with in general when you are playing Kasumi. She does not have many guaranteed / non-escapable stuff, especially not for 6P+K.
Ok I got it
... I'm trying to make some guaranteed combo and/or launching the opponent in the air to take free damage, but I figured out it isn't how Kasumi is supposed to be played, am I wrong? (I've always played Hayabusa and that's why I do so)
How should I use her?
What do you think about 9PK6 K PP7K.P+K ? Expecially after 9PK6, while the opponent sit on the ground.
Ok I got it
... I'm trying to make some guaranteed combo and/or launching the opponent in the air to take free damage, but I figured out it isn't how Kasumi is supposed to be played, am I wrong? (I've always played Hayabusa and that's why I do so)
How should I use her?
What do you think about 9PK6 K PP7K.P+K ? Expecially after 9PK6, while the opponent sit on the ground.
As said, Kasumi doesn't have much guaranteed stuff because that would make her too strong. Compared to other characters of the cast (like Hayabusa), it is already very easy for her to land a stun. That means your opponent will be almost always able to avoid your stuff either by slow escaping, blocking or guessing correctly on holds.
The combo you posted itself is guaranteed once you've landed the sitdown stun from 9PK. Then you will get this damage for free. Though the problem you got here is the same like in the combo you listed in your initial post: No opponent will allow you to use 9PK at close range for free because it also takes ages to execute. And even at long / mid range, using this one out of the blue is a huge risk because it is a linear high that can be either ducked, crushed or otherwise avoided. This input is actually more a part of juggles for heavyweights. On mid- and lightweights, you can get way more damage from a single combo as this deals.
Also, you need to be crazy good on hit confirming if you want to cancel this when you notice 9PK6 got blocked. If not, your opponent simply blocks your Hoshinpo knee kick too and you are at -19.
You can still use it though. You will notice if it works for you. Imo, it is more risk as reward.
A simple and almost guaranteed damage combo is:
opponent in stun > H+K > 9K > PKK7K6 > KK
H+K will turn the opponent around, 9K will launch him if backturned. This is not 100% guaranteed. The launch can be avoided on fastest slow escaping, however, it is very very rare that players are able to achieve this.
Another thing is 4PK PP6PK after the 4H+K sitdown stun. 4P itself is guaranteed to hit, and it's knee follow-up (which will launch) is crazy hard to hold. The launch isn't that high though.
Ps: you seem a Kasumi guru
Maybe playing only this character for 3 years (now) makes me a guru. Or what ever you want to call it.
Ciozun
Member
Thank you again!
What can I do after 236T? Do you think it's good?
You should share your knowledge, maybe on a Youtube channel.
What can I do after 236T? Do you think it's good?
You should share your knowledge, maybe on a Youtube channel.
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236T is your best launching throw. It relatively fast and gives you good damage on hi counter. If you use it in a ceiling, you get a guaranteed power blow from it.
Other combos for that are:
- 236T 6K PPKK (up to midweights) or
- 236T 66K~K6 KK (all weightclasses) or
- 236T 66K~K6 PP6PK (all weightclasses).
lol, I'm sharing my knowledge with you right now. The things I'm telling you here aren't things that weren't already found or written down here before by other players though. There are many players here in the forum who could propably tell you the same things, if you take a look at this thread here for example:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...y-doa5lr-kasumi-comprehensive-breakdown.2921/
And I do have a youtube channel btw. Or you just take a look at the "recent media" section under my profile page here if you are looking for some videos.
Slow Escape was coined by @virtuaPAI back in the early days of competitive Dead or Alive. The sad thing is he had VF experience and didn't carry over the term of Stagger Escape. It was named Slow Escape because Defensive Holds were a Fast Escape out of stun. Since it was the slower method to escape a stun he called it Slow Escape.
As competition grew, and more people from other games were coming in, players came to the realization that Stagger Escape is the more accurate and universal term. An accidental benefit is that the acronym for either term is the same, and so you'll see people calling it S.E. to cover both optional terms.
Even virtuapai wishes he just called it Stagger Escape back then, but sadly too many of the community got used to the term Slow Escape before it could be changed back. So now it's just a matter of the community phasing it out and using the term Stagger Escape. Even the localizer for Team NINJA hates the term Slow Escape ha-ha.
Oh well, that was back before my time. That's kinda interesting xD
Now you guys got the answer from the DoA stalwart, so just forget about my "interpretation".
Now you guys got the answer from the DoA stalwart, so just forget about my "interpretation".
Ciozun
Member
I made this 236T 66K.K 7K6 (Hos)KK (all weightclasses) 58 damage
- EDIT -
You have to be fast when performing 7K or (Hos)KK will miss (especially with the heavier characters).
Thats what I meant within my second paragraph. I just forgot to write down the 7K how I noticed. Anyway, it seems you got the idea.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
I meant the Term, Slow Escape....