Character Select screen leak

juliusxcix

Well-Known Member
Team Ninja's Roster Selection Process
acycle9.jpg



Don't be putting words in my mouth, Xhominid.
if rather have copied character models than copied move lists. yes marie/honoka/nico look similar but they all have their own unique fighting style. even kasumi/phase/alpha. they have the same animations but they play NOTHING alike which is why theyre all standalone characters that hold their own. unlike leon. yall are ao quick to jump on female characters and label it fan service when yallare unhappy with outcomes like. its never that real. id play those three way before id even think to touch leon.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
Team Ninja's Roster Selection Process
acycle9.jpg



Don't be putting words in my mouth, Xhominid.

You did it first... now apologize.

Well, those are two separate things. I'm not surprised, but I am annoyed, yes. And it's not really a great mystery why.

AFAIC, FG characters are a composite of three things: moveset, visuals, personality/story. His moveset/gameplan was genuinely one of the most unique in the entire game. Surprisingly, literally no one else had the ability to redirect launched opponents into stage hazards, a hallmark of DOA's identity. That is huge, and set him apart in a way bigger way than most characters. His visuals don't involve breasts so obviously he won't be all that popular, but he still has a completely unique face sculpt, a plethora of original animations that aren't all awkwardly choppy (more than a surprising number of characters), and his outfit meets the bare minimum for being identifiable (a low bar that, once again, many characters don't meet). His personality/story isn't all that spectacular, but whose is at this point?

Leon deserves a spot through all three criteria far more than a huge chunk of the characters that we get. But TN decided to dictate their roster based on their "story" and thus wrote in a bunch of boring fucks to justify their inclusion. But they didn't do so for Leon because no good fucking reason. So yes, I am miffed, and I have a perfectly good reason to be.

Then you should be blaming Itagaki for giving Leon such a retarded story then. Hell, you can't even defend that nonsense when Hayashi didn't even know the fucker was even liked, how you think Shimbori would see it as?
 

Macca Beam

Well-Known Member
this is tecmo and it's inevitable they would clone anything moderately successful. before we get to a couple faces, 99% of the cast had the same body and the protag of FF5 curiously looked exactly like kasumi
i don't think honk in 6 looks as similar to marie as she previously did though. and by that i mean now she looks like kokoro and hitomi instead
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Then you should be blaming Itagaki for giving Leon such a retarded story then. Hell, you can't even defend that nonsense when Hayashi didn't even know the fucker was even liked, how you think Shimbori would see it as?
Itagaki gave everyone a retarded story. Didn't stop them from bringing back Jann Lame or Kokobore. The amusing thing is that Itagaki also failed to give Leon a strong gameplay identity, which new TN improved on vastly in 5U. And then they just dumped it, because despite finding a way to shoehorn Sarah Bryant into DOA's story they apparently couldn't work out anything for Leon.
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Well, those are two separate things. I'm not surprised, but I am annoyed, yes. And it's not really a great mystery why.

AFAIC, FG characters are a composite of three things: moveset, visuals, personality/story. His moveset/gameplan was genuinely one of the most unique in the entire game. Surprisingly, literally no one else had the ability to redirect launched opponents into stage hazards, a hallmark of DOA's identity. That is huge, and set him apart in a way bigger way than most characters. His visuals don't involve breasts so obviously he won't be all that popular, but he still has a completely unique face sculpt, a plethora of original animations that aren't all awkwardly choppy (more than a surprising number of characters), and his outfit meets the bare minimum for being identifiable (a low bar that, once again, many characters don't meet). His personality/story isn't all that spectacular, but whose is at this point?

Leon deserves a spot through all three criteria far more than a huge chunk of the characters that we get. But TN decided to dictate their roster based on their "story" and thus wrote in a bunch of boring fucks to justify their inclusion. But they didn't do so for Leon because no good fucking reason. So yes, I am miffed, and I have a perfectly good reason to be.
We all justify our opinions. According to you, you have a perfectly good reason to have character x or character y in the game. I understand you’re you’re miffed, but staying mad about it and having a negative attitude isn’t gonna change anything.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
We all justify our opinions. According to you, you have a perfectly good reason to have character x or character y in the game. I understand you’re you’re miffed, but staying mad about it and having a negative attitude isn’t gonna change anything.
As opposed to a different attitude that would change something?

My current attitude is yielding the best result I could hope for given the circumstance. I see no reason to alter it.
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
As opposed to a different attitude that would change something?

My current attitude is yielding the best result I could hope for given the circumstance. I see no reason to alter it.
I think a positive attitude would change the way people outside this community see our community. When I see people talk about MK11, I see people being really hype. When I see people talk about DOA6, it’s either them being disappointed about a character that didn’t make it, that certain mechanics aren’t appealing to people or that there isn’t enough fan service. I think people need to start being grateful that DOA6 is a thing and that TN is willing to continue this series. Despite not having that big of a fan base as other fighters. TN easily could’ve said “Hey, we’re not continuing this series, since it’s not that successful anymore. Let’s make make another fighter that might be more successful.”
 
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Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I thought about that. That's why I stopped posting for a while. I wanted new players to get a chance to settle in, and figured I'd chime back in once KT announced something that I could genuinely praise. But then I realized that time probably wasn't coming. There is a reason that people aren't largely hyped for DOA6 and no, it's not just the community's fault for not gobbling up whatever slop is thrown before them. It's a result of TN severely miscalculating their audience, trying to please everyone and ultimately pleasing no one. MK knows its audience. Put in retro stuff, excessive violence and easter eggs and the core audience is satisfied. DOA has different crowds who want different things, and very few of them seem to like what they're seeing (the exception to this really is the "I'll take whatever, even if it sucks" crowd, and they're honestly my least favorite of the bunch due to their lack of integrity).

So yes, I could put on a facade that everything's great and that the community is united in excitement, but it wouldn't convince anyone when they can observe reality around them. You're never going to unite the entire DOA community. Remember that FSD was originally created specifically for the competitive DOA crowd, a subset of the DOA fanbase with a special set of interests. It was not intended to be a gathering spot for casual players or their interests. Lambasting DOA4 was generally condoned because largely the competitive crowd did not like it. The competitive community's verdict is not out yet on DOA6, and it certainly won't be until it's finished and played exhaustively. But to get there, we also have to talk about it, what we do and don't like about it, and be willing to articulate why.

I deliver my criticism with a certain brand of humor. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's unfortunate, but it's not going to scare away new players or make the community more toxic. It may, however, remind some players of past times in the community, when they united to campaign for a neglected, fan-favorite character or memed the hell out of a typo to distract them from a problematic re-release. But they pushed through those times of disappointment and dissatisfaction, just as they may push through these. And when it comes to community support, that's much more valuable than being a shill for every new letdown announced.

So no, I won't stop criticizing DOA6's dumb decisions. It may not change anything, but hopefully it will at least provide some catharsis for all the disgruntled fans who have to put up with it.
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I never wanted you to stop criticising, since your criticism is valid and you are a long time fan of the game. I agree with your arguments, overall. It’s just that DOA6 has been nothing more than controversy and that is just a shame.

I think TN needs to learn how to not give a fuck more. Like, they should know that they cannot simply make everybody’s wishes come true. Stuff regarding the “fanservice” shouldn’t even be taken seriously since it’s a fighting game and not DOAXVV version 123456789. DOA6 has a lot of offline content which is nice to see since most games these days are encouraging players to go online.
 

Dr PaC

Well-Known Member
because despite finding a way to shoehorn Sarah Bryant into DOA's story they apparently couldn't work out anything for Leon.
For the record, Sarah Bryant in the story was a nice Easter egg and I wish she could be a DOA girl forever. But I do feel where you're coming from. Ill fade away now so you can get back to your discussion
 

ShinobiOfTheWind

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's alpha or gen fu tbh, plus I dont think there will be unlockable characters anymore, that's a major hassle for tourneys since those characters would have to be unlocked and having locked characters nowadays is a flawed thing in games

I think the three characters will be Momiji or Rachel(or even both, but Momiji is more popular than Rachel is), maybe Leon, and a guest character that likely could be that Kazama Kiryu almost everyone has been requesting. I personally want at least one more new DOA character, maybe Momiji, and then Rachel or another new DOA character.
Still don't know that hype about Kazama Kiryu. Fans resquests sometimes are nonsense.
Since Shimbori said he would like to please the fans by including Momiji in a possible future, there is no need to be worried about her return. And I still hope Rachel will be in too (She is the character i personally request the most, cause she's underated and I simply love that woman).

So i truly think none will be unlockable and these free slots belong to DLC characters (Momiji, Rachel and Leon).
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Still don't know that hype about Kazama Kiryu. Fans resquests sometimes are nonsense.
Since Shimbori said he would like to please the fans by including Momiji in a possible future, there is no need to be worried about her return. And I still hope Rachel will be in too (She is the character i personally request the most, cause she's underated and I simply love that woman).

So i truly think none will be unlockable and these free slots belong to DLC characters (Momiji, Rachel and Leon).
I personally don't care for or really want Kiryu in(I would rather have Lili or Baki the Grappler) but from a market stand point including him in would give DOA6 alot of exposure and added relevance like what SC6 did with 2B and Tekken 7 with Negan. XD

And Momiji will eventually be in but not no time soon. I read that article from Twinfinite where they interviewed Shimbori(I linked the article in the Interview thread Julius made) and basically he said she won't be in unless the game does well, in which case she would likely return. Leon is already axed and I don't see Rachel joining without Momiji so I believe we'll have one guest character and the two additional slots will be for probably 2 more original DOA characters or maybe even 1-2 more guests. I mean Tekken 7 has 3 of them and SC6 has 2 so that's definitely a possibility, and DOA5LR had two sole guests being Naotora Ii and Mai Shiranui and then the VFs from vanilla and Ultimate
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
Itagaki gave everyone a retarded story. Didn't stop them from bringing back Jann Lame or Kokobore. The amusing thing is that Itagaki also failed to give Leon a strong gameplay identity, which new TN improved on vastly in 5U. And then they just dumped it, because despite finding a way to shoehorn Sarah Bryant into DOA's story they apparently couldn't work out anything for Leon.

Sarah Bryant had a story in DOA5? Clearly missed that. I mean, I'm not saying you don't have a point in that everyone's story is shit(this is a fighting game) but you have to admit that Leon's story is just bad even by Fighting game standards and it seems like even Team Ninja has no clue on how Leon would fit anymore past just "plaster him in because".

He'll probably be back as DLC again but yeah.

I thought about that. That's why I stopped posting for a while. I wanted new players to get a chance to settle in, and figured I'd chime back in once KT announced something that I could genuinely praise. But then I realized that time probably wasn't coming. There is a reason that people aren't largely hyped for DOA6 and no, it's not just the community's fault for not gobbling up whatever slop is thrown before them. It's a result of TN severely miscalculating their audience, trying to please everyone and ultimately pleasing no one. MK knows its audience. Put in retro stuff, excessive violence and easter eggs and the core audience is satisfied. DOA has different crowds who want different things, and very few of them seem to like what they're seeing (the exception to this really is the "I'll take whatever, even if it sucks" crowd, and they're honestly my least favorite of the bunch due to their lack of integrity).

So yes, I could put on a facade that everything's great and that the community is united in excitement, but it wouldn't convince anyone when they can observe reality around them. You're never going to unite the entire DOA community. Remember that FSD was originally created specifically for the competitive DOA crowd, a subset of the DOA fanbase with a special set of interests. It was not intended to be a gathering spot for casual players or their interests. Lambasting DOA4 was generally condoned because largely the competitive crowd did not like it. The competitive community's verdict is not out yet on DOA6, and it certainly won't be until it's finished and played exhaustively. But to get there, we also have to talk about it, what we do and don't like about it, and be willing to articulate why.

I deliver my criticism with a certain brand of humor. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's unfortunate, but it's not going to scare away new players or make the community more toxic. It may, however, remind some players of past times in the community, when they united to campaign for a neglected, fan-favorite character or memed the hell out of a typo to distract them from a problematic re-release. But they pushed through those times of disappointment and dissatisfaction, just as they may push through these. And when it comes to community support, that's much more valuable than being a shill for every new letdown announced.

So no, I won't stop criticizing DOA6's dumb decisions. It may not change anything, but hopefully it will at least provide some catharsis for all the disgruntled fans who have to put up with it.

Honestly, that's the best thing you can really do. No one is stopping you from criticizing Team Ninja during this process of DOA6(hell, I've been equally critical of them as much as I have of the "fake fans" who keep pretending they have some stake and complain yet never played the game before or even seem to care as much as they complain).

Like not once have I ever tried to tell @werewolfgold to stop bitching, if anything, I may criticize him on his outlook of other things but not on how the game goes itself if he has issues with it. There's a difference of having legitimate claims and trying to give out criticism which can help the game to those who have issues with it... and then there's the other kind...
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Sarah Bryant had a story in DOA5? Clearly missed that. I mean, I'm not saying you don't have a point in that everyone's story is shit(this is a fighting game) but you have to admit that Leon's story is just bad even by Fighting game standards and it seems like even Team Ninja has no clue on how Leon would fit anymore past just "plaster him in because".

He'll probably be back as DLC again but yeah.



Honestly, that's the best thing you can really do. No one is stopping you from criticizing Team Ninja during this process of DOA6(hell, I've been equally critical of them as much as I have of the "fake fans" who keep pretending they have some stake and complain yet never played the game before or even seem to care as much as they complain).

Like not once have I ever tried to tell @werewolfgold to stop bitching, if anything, I may criticize him on his outlook of other things but not on how the game goes itself if he has issues with it. There's a difference of having legitimate claims and trying to give out criticism which can help the game to those who have issues with it... and then there's the other kind...
Sarah made a cameo, What story lmao.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
you have to admit that Leon's story is just bad even by Fighting game standards
Actually no, I don't. When the majority of options are "guy with hidden evil power," or "doormat girl that idolizes male character," Leon's shtick is somehow slightly above average for the genre. It's really sad, but it's true. Hitomi has already finished her character arc as well, establishing herself as her own martial artist, no longer living in the shadow of Ein or her father's dojo. But they keep finding excuses to bring her back, even though now she's just another doormat that idolizes a male character.

From a purely story perspective, Ayane, Leifang, Hitomi, Mila and Momiji are all pretty much the same character these days, but they felt compelled to bring all of them back (save Momiji, I guess) purely because they have a "place in the story" when Leon can't? Pleeeeeease. I find their "story" excuses to be really, really dumb. Either they know how dumb it is and they're lying to disguise the real reasons for their roster decisions, or they are somehow oblivious to how generic and bland they've made their characters in recent installments
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Actually no, I don't. When the majority of options are "guy with hidden evil power," or "doormat girl that idolizes male character," Leon's shtick is somehow slightly above average for the genre. It's really sad, but it's true. Hitomi has already finished her character arc as well, establishing herself as her own martial artist, no longer living in the shadow of Ein or her father's dojo. But they keep finding excuses to bring her back, even though now she's just another doormat that idolizes a male character.

From a purely story perspective, Ayane, Leifang, Hitomi, Mila and Momiji are all pretty much the same character these days, but they felt compelled to bring all of them back (save Momiji, I guess) purely because they have a "place in the story" when Leon can't? Pleeeeeease. I find their "story" excuses to be really, really dumb. Either they know how dumb it is and they're lying to disguise the real reasons for their roster decisions, or they are somehow oblivious to how generic and bland they've made their characters in recent installments
Leon’s story isn’t really above average, his gf died for unknown reasons and he wants to prove himself to be the “strongest man”, yet never won a DOA tournament and just left the scene because it was enough for him. His story is bland, boring and forgettable. The only thing that makes Leon stand out is his gameplay, move set and appearance but besides that he’s practically invisible. You said males were less popular but I have to disageee on that. Hayabusa is one of the most popular characters in DOA who beats a lot female characters in terms of popularity. Majority of the cast don’t really have interesting stories but their stories are at least ongoing. Hitomi’s goal is to win the DOA tournament, while also training with Leifang. She’s not chasing Hayate like Leifang chases Jann lee. Sorry to break it to you, but there’s virtually nothing interesting about Leon except gameplay. Leon, Ein, Gen fu and Brad Wong are just filler characters in the series, they literally have 0 purpose to be in DOA anymore besides gameplay.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Leon’s story isn’t really above average, his gf died for unknown reasons and he wants to prove himself to be the “strongest man”, yet never won a DOA tournament and just left the scene because it was enough for him. His story is bland, boring and forgettable. The only thing that makes Leon stand out is his gameplay, move set and appearance but besides that he’s practically invisible. You said males were less popular but I have to disageee on that. Hayabusa is one of the most popular characters in DOA who beats a lot female characters in terms of popularity. Majority of the cast don’t really have interesting stories but their stories are at least ongoing. Hitomi’s goal is to win the DOA tournament, while also training with Leifang. She’s not chasing Hayate like Leifang chases Jann lee. Sorry to break it to you, but there’s virtually nothing interesting about Leon except gameplay. Leon, Ein, Gen fu and Brad Wong are just filler characters in the series, they literally have 0 purpose to be in DOA anymore besides gameplay.
You seem to think I at some point praised Leon's story beyond the point that it's marginally better than much of the putrid shit that populates the genre, which I didn't do. My point is that all of their stories are "bland, boring and forgettable," including Leon. Thus, it's a terrible idea to dictate your roster based on such criteria, which is allegedly what TN is claiming their strategy was for DOA6. For the record, Brad Wong is returning, a character you claim is just filler. So why bring him back and not Leon? "Story" seems like a pretty damn weak justification.

"Win the tournament" is not a character. You can make Leon's goal (or literally anyone else's) "to win the tournament" if you want and it would make just as much sense with his character as it does for Hitomi, both whom have already had closure in their respective character arcs to prove themselves.

Cherry-picking Hayabusa, a character popular because of a different game series altogether, is not really evidence that male characters are largely as popular among DOA's audience as female characters. Though even if it did, that wouldn't really change anything about the Leon situation.

The "sorry to break it to you" thing only works if you actually introduce new information that the other party wasn't already aware of. Let me be perfectly clear: even discounting any opinions on the rest of his character, Leon's gameplay alone is more than enough to justify his inclusion.
 
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