Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate: Helena

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Welcome to Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate or as I like to call it, Is She Alive 5 Ultimate.

I'm going to give a run down of the changes Helena has undergone from Vanilla to 5U.

New Moves:
  • 6P+KP: This move is an i15/i18 mid punch string and the second hit causes a bound state. The second hit can be delayed by 14 frames.
  • 66F+K: This move is an i26 high kick that is airborne part way through and leaves her in BKO. It causes a feint stun but the only allowed follow ups are P or 6P. It can also be used as a re launcher.
  • 214P+K: This is Helena's only new sit down stun. It grants +21 on slow SE, +21 on fast SE and +16 on fastest SE.
  • 44P+K: This is Helena's new power launcher. Uncharged it comes out in 25 frames and can be combo'd from with 66KP(P). Fully charged it comes out at i40. Unlike the power blow it does not guard crush when fully charged, it is -15 on block.
New Transitions into BT:
  • 8PP4: She can enter BT from this move now. On block it is -6 and +13 on CH.
  • 3PP4: This cancel is -8 on block, -7 on NH and +12 on CH.
  • 6P4: This cancel is -8 on block, -7 on NH and +12 on CH.

Tracking Moves :
  • 4P This move now tracks. This is now her fastest tracking move at i15, previously 1P was at i17.

Moves with Changed Properties:
  • BT 7P: This was an i23 sit down stun in Vanilla and now it also works as a CB. It grants +18 on slow SE, +16 on fast SE and +13 on fastest SE.
  • BKO 66P: Now works as a re launcher.
  • BKO P+K: Also works as a re launcher now.
  • 66P, BT 6P, PPP, PP4PP, 9PP, 9P4PP, 4PPP, BT PP4PPP: Are now unsafe going from -5 in Vanilla to -9 in Ultimate. In Vanilla they caused a knock down but now they cause a light stun on CH giving +20 on slow SE, +17 on fast SE and +15 on fastest SE.
  • F+K: Previously granted +7 on block but now only offers +2. You can now also cancel into BKO from this move but it leaves you at -1.
  • 3in1's: Every one of them now interacts with the wall which gives her a damage buff and seeing as her PFT no longer works it doesn't make much of a difference.
  • All of her SDS's now cause a bound state when landed at maximum stun threshold. The one exception being BT 7P as it is now a CB. P(P) and 7P also cause a bound under the same circumstances.

Force Tech aka The Blender aka PFT:

As most people now know 33P4P > 6P now longer works. This is a pretty hefty nerf seeing as her entire play style was built around it. Feel free to do it even if they don't tech as the 6P will still hit them and push them away from you which should mean you won't have to be in range of their wake up attack.

The only option you have here is to do 33P4P > 2K. This will force tech but if they tech and it whiff's you will be left at -6 in a stance where it takes Helena 10 frames to be able to block. If the opponent isn't teching use this but if they are teching make use of the massive frame advantage that you get by doing nothing after knock down.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll add more as it is discovered. Overall she is the same character with awful sit down stuns and newly nerfed guard crushes. The new transitions will make her fun to play and her PFT is still there but you have to make a 50/50 guess to capitalise on it.
 
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DR2K

Well-Known Member
Overall she's better at the neteral game, but still has good ground game options. Just not as derpy.
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Overall she's better at the neteral game, but still has good ground game options. Just not as derpy.
Her ground game just requires her taking a risk now just like everyone else. If she guesses right she is rewarded, and if she guesses wrong she gets punished. It's pretty fair. I'm not certain why you think her neutral game is better though.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Her ground game just requires her taking a risk now just like everyone else. If she guesses right she is rewarded, and if she guesses wrong she gets punished. It's pretty fair. I'm not certain why you think her neutral game is better though.

All her new tools open up more ways to get damage or put her in a better position. Except for on block.
 

BlackDiamond890

New Member
Yeah, I thought that was pretty dumb as well...

You say that her neutral game is better, expect on block... All someone needs to do IS block... She now has like a grand total of *counts on one hand* TWO SAFE MOVES?!?

Her Guard Break, which is even MORE useless now, a whopping +2 standing, and -1 in BKO, seeing as how Helena is QUITE slow, this grants virtually no advantage to her.

Her other one being (exaggerated) a 30 frame version of the hand slaps that leaves her at +1.

Her other "safe" options are her other hand slaps, which are -4, not grab-able, but 2P from literally every character says "Screw off."

Did they have to take away LITERALLY ALL OF HER SAFE AND SEMI-SAFE MOVES? Even 6 P+K is -9 now!!!

What the hell do they expect us to do with a character who is unsafe with LITERALLY EVERY OPTION SHE HAS?!?

Edit: Also, her back turned variants of 3PP and 8PP are like -7 and -6 respectively, but backturned still means a guaranteed neutral back throw...
 

phoenix1985gr

Active Member
Her ground game just requires her taking a risk now just like everyone else. If she guesses right she is rewarded, and if she guesses wrong she gets punished. It's pretty fair. I'm not certain why you think her neutral game is better though.


Her ground game doesnt need a risk... You end your juggle with 33p4p then 6p if they teched you get your +4 if they didnt you do another 6p and if they teched (i assume) you get your +4 if they didnt tech you force them up with whatever she gains... So i dont think she changed one bit
 

HaJiN

Member
Good post. pretty much sums up everything, except helena's fastest tracking moves were 6p and 7k in 5, not 1p. Overall it doesn't make a difference now, because 4p is an amazing tracking move, something i've always wanted since DOA5 first came out.
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Good post. pretty much sums up everything, except helena's fastest tracking moves were 6p and 7k in 5, not 1p. Overall it doesn't make a difference now, because 4p is an amazing tracking move, something i've always wanted since DOA5 first came out.
Yeah I figured it might be useful to have a list of all her changes just laid out for future reference. You're right about the tracking moves, I always forget about those two. 4P is her first tracking mid and her 4P string is great.
 
You say that her neutral game is better, expect on block... All someone needs to do IS block... She now has like a grand total of *counts on one hand* TWO SAFE MOVES?!?
Gotta mention 236PKP (-2 on block), BT 66K (+0), and I honestly think some of her other moves just resist throw punishment like crazy because it knocks them out of appropriate range for the follow up throw on block every so often. I might even actually be forgetting something unimportant.

Still, even if I think the current stun properties on her previously safe palms are superior to the knockdown, I really don't really like the change. It means that there isn't really a convincingly consistent way to keep pressing buttons in neutral without having to try and make a read on a free cancel. But she manages despite that (and because she has so many ways to make that read happen)

Her ground game doesnt need a risk... You end your juggle with 33p4p then 6p if they teched you get your +4 if they didnt you do another 6p and if they teched (i assume) you get your +4 if they didnt tech you force them up with whatever she gains... So i dont think she changed one bit

Yeah, ironically, it was her 33P4P game that survived Ultimate. Most (not all) of her other ground game options got hit hard, but a 33P4P is still very solid. Just have to do it twice, or on a better read, BKO 6P into BKO 2K is pretty much guaranteed if they don't tech after the BKO 6P right away.
 
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Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Yeah, ironically, it was her 33P4P game that survived Ultimate. Most (not all) of her other ground game options got hit hard, but a 33P4P is still very solid. Just have to do it twice, or on a better read, BKO 6P into BKO 2K is pretty much guaranteed if they don't tech after the BKO 6P right away.
Just wait to see if that gets patched out.
 
Just wait to see if that gets patched out.
You know, it's possible but I doubt it actually will, because it and another ground tech (214PP, which will be the foundation for her new wall game, I think) seem intentionally to interact with the ground differently than any of her other moves. It would be strange for them only to specify those two moves to intentionally have those properties, but weirder things have happened.
 

Akumasama

Active Member
During BKO 4P,K was it possible in Vanilla DOA5 to sidestep the K part, granted you guarded the 4P one?

Also, wasn't BKO 6P.4P, P heavily tracking? Not the first part (6P) of course, but I remember either the following 4P or P or both to be very tracking in vanillla.


Also general question, what's the name of the new "lay down stun" animation that they added in DoA5 U? Which of Helena's moves bring the opponent into this state and under which conditions?

Last but not least: did she get any new accessory or hairstyle compared to DoA5? (aside from the sunglasses since those are costume-bound)
 
During BKO 4P,K was it possible in Vanilla DOA5 to sidestep the K part, granted you guarded the 4P one?
Yeah.

Also, wasn't BKO 6P.4P, P heavily tracking? Not the first part (6P) of course, but I remember either the following 4P or P or both to be very tracking in vanillla.

Not really. However, 4P and then the next P came out more quickly than most sidestep attempts could manage to evade and would catch the opponent. A particularly proficient sidestepper could find their way to SS the entire thing. I don't think this actually changed at all?

Also general question, what's the name of the new "lay down stun" animation that they added in DoA5 U? Which of Helena's moves bring the opponent into this state and under which conditions?

Don't exactly know what you're talking about, but unless it's the slide than I'm pretty sure she doesn't have that.

Last but not least: did she get any new accessory or hairstyle compared to DoA5? (aside from the sunglasses since those are costume-bound)

I'm never the person who finds this stuff, but I don't think so because I'm sure I would have seen it by now.
 

Akumasama

Active Member
I don't think this actually changed at all?
Dunno, I just know that at the beginning of the match it worked against Hayate's 8+P+K, P and against most (all?) sidesteps I managed to tried it against, and now everyone seems to be able to sidestep it at ease, wonder what changed...


Don't exactly know what you're talking about, but unless it's the slide than I'm pretty sure she doesn't have that.
I don't really know how to describe it but there's a new "condition" you can force your opponent into, that wasn't present in Vanilla DoA5.
You send your opponent to the ground but then he slowly "rolls" backwards once.
You get this for instance from Rachel's 7+K, 7+K.
I think pretty much every character has one or more moves that puts the opponent in such a state, Helena too. Was wondering what's the name of this situation and which of Helena's moves can produce it.


I'm never the person who finds this stuff, but I don't think so because I'm sure I would have seen it by now.
So no oldstyle ponytail :( :(
 
Dunno, I just know that at the beginning of the match it worked against Hayate's 8+P+K, P and against most (all?) sidesteps I managed to tried it against, and now everyone seems to be able to sidestep it at ease, wonder what changed...

On test, I'm not sure myself. I can still do it myself offline, but I also could in vanilla when testing it. And it's not like I never got hit with the follow ups either. Try delaying it a bit, perhaps; it has about 10 frames of a follow up interval for you to work with, so you can toss the first 6P and follow up with the 4P a few frames in, probably to good effect.

I don't really know how to describe it but there's a new "condition" you can force your opponent into, that wasn't present in Vanilla DoA5.
You send your opponent to the ground but then he slowly "rolls" backwards once.
You get this for instance from Rachel's 7+K, 7+K.
I think pretty much every character has one or more moves that puts the opponent in such a state, Helena too. Was wondering what's the name of this situation and which of Helena's moves can produce it.

Oh, I've been casually calling that the slide. It may have a better name, hahahaha.

Anyway, the way I know how to get it with Helena is 236PKP. The last punch will get the slide, I believe on any hit not involving a wall (including if you wiffed the first two). It can be followed up effectively with 66KPP or BKO 4PK 33P4P.

So no oldstyle ponytail :( :(
Ah, this would have made national news as far as this subforum is concerned. I'm quite sure that's not the case, sadly.
 

Akumasama

Active Member
Thanks for your reply.
Dunno if anybody knows this already but you can check the amount of hairstyle and the amount of "main" accessories in the "Movie Theatre" section of the game.
There is a part reserved to Win Pose/Lose Pose.
If you select it it also allows you to pick up a costume, a hairstyle and an accessory. From there you can see how many each character has.

It's not particularly exact for the accessories but for the hairstyles it works like a charm.
 
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