We are Fighters

System Details of the Airborne status

Discussion in 'Dead or Alive 5 Last Round System Discussion' started by WAZAAAAA, May 22, 2017.

By WAZAAAAA on May 22, 2017 at 9:53 PM
  1. WAZAAAAA

    WAZAAAAA Well-Known Member

    Location:
    123 Fake Street
    GENERAL STATUSES OVERVIEW:
    Before we begin, we're going to list several move properties.

    These are all the statuses shown by the in-game move details window along with their internal IDs.
    0 Standing
    1 Crouching
    2 Down
    3 Jumping
    4 Jump (evade lows)
    5 Jump
    6 Squatting


    And these are the various Throw/OH types.
    1 High = hits standing and squatting targets
    2 Medium = Throws/OHs don't use this target, so we don't need to care
    3 Low = hits crouching and squatting targets
    4 Ground (uncommon) = hits down opponents
    8 Air (uncommon) = hits jump opponents
    255 multiple (extremely rare) = sometimes Throws/OHs can hit multiple targets at the same time such as Bass Side Step Throw (High+Squatting+Air) or Bayman 3P+KT OH (High+Squatting+Ground)


    JUMP STATUSES EXPLAINED:
    Now we're going to take a deeper look at the Jump-related statuses and some peculiarities.
    - Jumping and Jump seem to be mechanically identical
    - during Jump (evade lows) you're invincible to all Low Strikes
    - every status that starts with Jump in its name makes you invincible to High/Low/Ground Throws and OHs
    - notice how I didn't list Air. Because of Bass Side Step Throw unique properties, he is able to hit any move in the air, even during the Strike startup or active frames of those, thus effectively bypassing the "Strikes beat Throws" part of the triangle system
    [​IMG]
    (click here for more Bass Side Step Throw action)


    This time we'll look into a different hidden Jump status, which from now on I'm going to call Airborne status.
    - together with Jumping/Jump (evade lows)/Jump statuses, there's also this little known Airborne status which dictates weather or not a move is "truly" in the air or not. This Airborne property is actually a separate HIDDEN undocumented value not shown anywhere (until now ;-). Internally, the flag is equal to 0 when the frame of a move frame is grounded, and 1 when it's Airborne
    - normally, being in Crouching status makes you invincible to High Strikes, and Jump (evade lows) status makes you invincible to Low Strikes, but these two invincibilities get nullified during "Airborne status" frames. Example: frames 9~16 of Hayabusa WhileRising 4K are both Crouching AND Airborne at the same time, which means that both Low OHs and High Strikes can still hit him during that brief moment (implying that the hitboxes properly connect with the hurtboxes too obviously)
    - since it's a separate value altogether, you may encounter some moves that are seemingly 100% Standing against Throws/OHs according to the move details window, but behave differently against Strikes (they start a juggle), and viceversa. Example: Hayabusa 7K actually has Airborne frames from 15~25, and interrupting him with a Strike during those frames will juggle combo him
    - only one of the Tag Switch animations (H+P+K during a Tag match) has Airborne frames. This is how they work:
    handspring: 35 frames total - 20~35 Airborne frames
    cartwheel: 35 frames total - 0 Airborne frames
    walk: 35 frames total - 0 Airborne frames
    teleport (bosses only): 5 frames total - 0 Airborne frames
    - you can use my updated DOA5LR ToolBox (the Frame Counter tool specifically) to expose the hidden Airborne status of any move in real-time. You will notice that Team Ninja tends to add Airborne frames to moves very sparingly to say the least
    [​IMG]


    NORMAL/COUNTER/HI COUNTER DAMAGE MODIFIERS:
    Being hit in the air can get you different damage modifiers according to the statuses of the frame you got hit on, and the animation playing.
    However, some animations are just arbitrarily going to have a forced "Always Counter Hit" flag from the first to the last frame. Hayabusa 9P is an example of this; inversely, Naotora 9P has no such flag, even though the purposes and properties of both moves are very similar. But the moves that don't make use of such arbitrary flag actually do follow some convoluted logic that I'll try to explain:
    Jump ON + Airborne OFF = Hi Counter
    Jump ON + Airborne ON = Normal Hit (additional note: these statuses put together make you immune to the Close Hit modifier)
    Jump OFF + Airborne ON = Normal Hit
    Jump in this case refers to any of the 3 statuses Jumping/Jump (evade lows)/Jump
    Keep in mind that the Normal Hit cases I listed will not happen if you're being hit by another situation that would cause Counter or Hi Counter e.g. Throwing an air OH = Hi Counter, or getting Striked during your own Strike startup/active frames = Counter. The highest damage modifier always takes the priority.


    ODD MOVE-SPECIFIC AIR BEHAVIOURS:
    Please note I haven't tested every move in the game that has Airborne frames in them. There are too many, here I am going to list exclusively what I found to be noteworthy.

    Hayabusa teleport attacks
    Weirdly enough, they don't reach a true Airborne status until the 9th frame (Punch version) or 10th frame (Kick/Throw/Movement versions) of the teleport animation even though Hayabusa is visibly flying 2 meters up in the air.
    [​IMG]


    Tina 9K
    Code:
    18 startup - 4 active - 18 recovery
    Low Strikes invincibility = 9~17
    High/Low/Ground Throw/OH invincibility = 9~40
    Airborne status = 18~40
    This move can only be Throw punished with High Throws that have exactly 6 frames of startup; not less, not more.
    The reason that neutral Throws don't work is that the entirety of her recovery has both a Jump AND Airborne status, so you'll end up Throwing her too soon while she's still in the air.
    The reason you can Throw punish her with a 6 frame startup Throw is that the move is -8 on block and after her last frame of recovery, she'll be stuck in that usual single unskippable "unholdable glitch frame", during which she is no longer Jumping/Airborne, and that's when the 2nd active frame of your 6 startup Throw will land.

    Marie Rose 7P
    Code:
    43 frames in total
    Airborne status = 4~43
    Along with her 3P+KK, this is one of the few examples of moves that have 0 Jump status frames according to the move details window, but actually contain some Airborne frames.
    7P is also the fastest move that transitions into Airborne status that I know of... it only takes 4 frames. What this means is that you can throw it out whenever you're in a -5 frame disadvantage situation to minimize the opponent's Strike pressure by falling to the ground and taking minimal Normal Hit damage if he hits you during the 7P, or just get away with it if the opponent does nothing. Throws will catch her because of the Standing status but the opponent is not supposed to Throw at -5 anyway.
    [​IMG]


    TL;DR
    The Jump statuses shown in-game mainly apply to Throws/OHs. The Strike-related Jump status (Airborne) is separated, much less prevalent and also hidden but it can be shown with external tools (aka my Frame Counter)
     
    #1
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Tulkas, Tenro, VAND1TA and 15 others like this.
    1. Crazy_Chin_Guy
    2. WAZAAAAA
    3. Rikuto
      Rikuto
      Move details.

      There be dragons here
    4. Rojikku
    5. DestructionBomb
      DestructionBomb
      I made a small short video using this as a reference

      WAZAAAAA likes this.
    6. WAZAAAAA
      WAZAAAAA
      Notice how Bass is throwing Hayabusa during his Air OH... it triggers the Hi Counter modifier but the damage doesn't really increase!
      adding the video to the first post
      DestructionBomb likes this.
    7. Tenro
      Tenro
      good info once again, another proof of how much prejudiced TN is about their own poster boy in DOA. ppl must be really butt hurt when Hayabusa used to be on top of the pack in DOA4.
    8. Tenro
      Tenro
      for all the trouble Christie or other quote and called top tiers give ppl in this game, I hope they don't get molested like him in DOA6.
    9. UncleKitchener
      UncleKitchener
      I don't think they even expected this to happen, so somewhere someone forgot to add scaling for this sort of situation. I know that this doesn't happen normally with that throw.
    10. Tulkas
      Tulkas
      @WAZAAAAA
      Have you looked at Brad's 66P+K?

      It seems that that move gets in the air on 1st frame. Shortly before dropping the game, I started using it as a way to escape from certain setups where Brad can't poke at the price of eating one or two juggle hits most the times, which I think is a good deal. It makes Brand end in the ground, which favors him IMO. And most important, it avoids the risk of getting stunned and potentially eating the biggest combos in the game too. Of course: sometimes the price payed is higher because 66P+K is throwable but I think it still is a good deal overall.

      I dropped the game at the time because nobody plays online in my city and online gaming is bad. But who knows... maybe I will resume it because one of my best DOA friend of my birth country is planning to move this city. :D

      @UncleKitchener
      Kiiiiitch! Long time no see you! Greetings! :D
      UncleKitchener likes this.
    11. UncleKitchener
      UncleKitchener
      Hey, good to see you :D

      I'm playing KOF and Tekken now. DOA has fallen off the radar here. Nothing much going on any more.

      PM me your number when you can. I got a new phone and lost most of my old numbers.
    12. WAZAAAAA
      WAZAAAAA
      @Tulkas There's something weird going on with that move in particular. My Toolbox only detects Airborne status from 10, but it's actually Airborne from frame 1, and the two frame windows behave differently too.

      Being hit during frames 1~9 of 66P+K will make the Brad fall down with the feet down juggled animation:
      [​IMG]
      Being hit during frames 10~30 of 66P+K will make the Brad fall down with the feet up juggled animation:
      [​IMG]

      My theory is that, the fact that there are 2 different "juggle animation types" in 1 single move, messes with the Airborne status displayer by showing only one "section" as Airborne. This theory is strengthened by the fact that Team Ninja would never put Airborne from freaking frame 1 in any move ever.

      Btw Hayabusa had a very similar move in DOA2U. It wasn't exactly from frame 1, but his 2P+K transition into handstand got him Airborne super quick which was helpful to escape Strikes, and as far as I remember it caused no Counter Hit.
      Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
      Tulkas likes this.
    13. Tulkas
      Tulkas
      @WAZAAAAA Thanks for the research! :D

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