We are Fighters

[DOA2++] Moveset Editing Project

Discussion in 'Dead or Alive 2 Discussion' started by usagiZ, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. Mr. Wah

    Mr. Wah Owner
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Main Character:
    Bass
    Gamertag:
    Sorwah
    PSN ID:
    Sorwah
    Steam:
    Sorwah
    Yeah, I was the one who got them to bring it down to Counter hit. I tried to get them to bring it down to normal hit but they basically refused as they feel if it's not on some form of punishment for being hit while back dashing then the players will just backdash non-stop. just like when they had it so you could crouch dash cancel side steps like VF all players would do would sidestep crouch dash cancel side step and they didn't like that in play testing.
     
    #201
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  2. WAZAAAAA

    WAZAAAAA Well-Known Member

    Location:
    123 Fake Street
    Based Mr. Wah, the admin we need and deserve.

    Well they're probably not wrong that people would want to backdash non-stop just like Tekken where backdashes are super strong, but I'm not convinced that it would be a bad thing until I try it
     
    #202
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  3. Mr. Wah

    Mr. Wah Owner
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Main Character:
    Bass
    Gamertag:
    Sorwah
    PSN ID:
    Sorwah
    Steam:
    Sorwah
    I agree, but in the end it's up to them to make the game they want. Good or bad, sadly.
     
    #203
  4. Rikuto

    Rikuto P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Main Character:
    Bayman
    Gamertag:
    Rikuto Kuronaga
    PSN ID:
    Rikuto-san
    Main issue I have with counterhits on backdash is the massive attack range disparity that exists for some matchups. So the characters that benefit in head to head jousts also benefit more in defensive ranged play. Not a great thing in a game where simply stopping and blocking to get in patiently is equally high risk because no throw breaks plus stage hazards.
     
    #204
  5. leidoa

    leidoa New Member

    1: that's amazing that you found out how to make cutscene stage's playable they really look nice especially the bass truck stage i can imagine that stage as an infinite stage similat to tekken stage's , if you can somehow edit the stage to be infinite that will be sick ;)

    _______________________________________

    2:as for the gameplay mod i think it's better to just keep it as is so it doesn't interfere with the opening cinematics and sparring mode
    my ideal mod will be just to replace the old animation with the new ones like ( attacks / stuns / ground stuns / stance /....etc) so the
    gameplay looks softer and more realistic like doa4 / doad but still plays like doa2

    _______________________________________

    3: for tag team stage's i would love to have

    The Miyama spring (slope)
    Bass truck stage (infinite)
    rayhouse (square)
    danger zone (explosive)
    the burai zenin (slippery)

    with this selection you get a variety of different stage functions:cool:
    _______________________________________

    4: last but not least is adding the ( scream voices ) to the stuns and the ( english voice ) from doa2h and doad i would love to have helena's french accent :cool: , donno if its possible but it will be a nice addition to the game

    _______________________________________

    p.s

    what's with niki she look really good , is she going to be a test character similar to kasumi a and what kind of style she's going to have :eek:
    and what about doa3 characters christie , brad wong , hayate ??:)
     
    #205
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  6. usagiZ

    usagiZ Active Member

    Main Character:
    Kasumi α
    Hey everyone, quick update:

    I still haven't figured out the stage wall coding. I'll keep trying though.
    You can literally delete all data in the stage.bin and the stage will still work, just without any wall detection.
    I have no idea how the game knows where to position the stage objects. :confused:

    Initial tests to change [getting hit during backdash = hi counter hit] haven't worked, so I have to try something else.

    Added another stun -- force backturn:
    I recommend watching at 0.5 speed

    Everything that raises the combo counter after the stun is guaranteed - it also ignores the stun threshold.
    The animation can be sped up if you try to stagger escape.

    The characters in the video are the only ones with the stun at the moment.

    Throws are pretty quick in DOA2, the slowest throws have an 8 frame startup I think?
    I really like how DOA5LR handles the throw frames and It would be pretty easy to switch to.

    Should I change it to something like 5-7-10-12 (4-6-8-11 for char's with faster throws) or leave it the way it is? Currently, you can just throw punish with your strongest throw in a lot of situations. Idk, just a thought.

    I'm working on Ryu's moveset, but I don't really know what to do with his handstand stance.
    In later games, the handstand isn't really a full stance anymore. I'd appreciate some suggestions for what to do with it.
    -Should I try to get it close to the way it's used in later games, or just leave it the way it is?

    I also won't be able to mimic his teleports properly. Basically his moveset has been the most difficult so far, which is why I saved it for last lol.

    -------------------------------------------------

    @leidoa The opening cinematics and exercise in sparring don't work with the new movesets - there's no way around that unfortunately.
    The character screams can't be added the way they are in later games, so I won't be doing that :/
    I might be able to make an english voice pack eventually, now that I know more about the in-game voice files.
    I like your idea for team stages.
    Thanks for the suggestions~

    I don't really have a solid plan of what her fighting style will be, but I do have a few ideas:

    The base character will probably be Helena
    I plan to use the unused animations from all the other characters
    She'll probably have a few moves from Zack, but edited slightly to fit her more
    Holds will be parries/resets or end with the opponent standing or stunned

    I would really appreciate some suggestions for this moveset.
    Anyone can contribute - this moveset probably won't be done for a long while.

    I'm open to costume suggestions as well. Maybe I should just make another thread for Niki? Idk.
     
    #206
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  7. WAZAAAAA

    WAZAAAAA Well-Known Member

    Location:
    123 Fake Street
    Keep it. Throw punishing has always been strong in DOA, and I personally like it a lot.



    DON'T YOU DARE TO TOUCH IT
    The handstand stance and his break dance moves are the sickest shit ever ask any DOA1/2/3 'busa player. The fact that they dared to remove them in DOA4/5 is a tragedy. The only bad replaceable handstand move in DOA2U is probably 4K imo. The only reason to use it is... by accident lol
    P+K is also another useless/never used move
     
    #207
  8. Forlorn Penguin

    Forlorn Penguin Well-Known Member
    Premium Donor

    Location:
    Casselberry, FL
    Main Character:
    Tengu
    Gamertag:
    Forlorn Penguin
    PSN ID:
    ForlornPenguin
    Steam:
    ForlornPenguin
    I agree with WAZAAAAA about leaving the throws alone. It's too much fun being able to take out half of a life bar as Tengu with just a 6 frame throw. lol
     
    #208
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  9. Mr. Wah

    Mr. Wah Owner
    Staff Member Administrator

    Location:
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Main Character:
    Bass
    Gamertag:
    Sorwah
    PSN ID:
    Sorwah
    Steam:
    Sorwah
    Leave the throws alone. Don't forget that the 7 frame throws allow you to punish whiffed holds easier as well.

    And 7 is the slowest startup for throws, 4 being the fastest. But someone who has a 4 frame neutral would have a 6 frame slowest throw.

    That doesn't include catch throws (offensive holds) as those are all around the 16 frame mark.
     
    #209
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  10. grap3fruitman

    grap3fruitman Well-Known Member
    Standard Donor

    Hayabusa has been dead to me ever since they got rid of the handstand. He had it in early versions of DOA4 too... Ugh
     
    #210
  11. usagiZ

    usagiZ Active Member

    Main Character:
    Kasumi α
    Thanks for the input everyone~
    I'm keeping throw frames the way they are, and leaving hayabusa's handstand where it is! lol


    -----Another quick update-----

    I've hinted at this in videos, but haven't made a post about it until now:
    One of the smaller changes I've made has been removing invincibility from half-wall splats.
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, after Ayane slams Bayman into the half-wall, she gets in a few hits of extra damage before he finishes falling.
    The way you do this is, slam the opponent into a half-wall with an attack that has quick recovery.

    You can then get some extra damage with lows or mids. (High attacks usually whiff, mid/low attacks are more consistent. Quick mids are the best option)
    Once a character hits the half-wall, they can't get wall splat again until they touch the ground. This prevents infinites (as far as I know).
    Though it was a small change, it made a big impact on the gameplay, allowing combos to be extended in interesting ways.
    [​IMG]
    Notice how the 7K ender doesn't re-splat.
    [​IMG]
    Caught him during the startup of 9K, so he launched a lot higher. The BKO 6PPK ender doesn't re-splat.

    DOA5LR did some interesting things with wall splats and I was inspired. Maybe this could add something dynamic to DOA2U.


    I'm still working on Ryu's moveset. Probably gonna be a week or so before I finish it. If you have any requests, feel free to let me know~

    ----------------------------------------------------

    I've run into a few cases of the game freezing, and don't really know why that's happening.
    My guess is that I've inflated the files too much and it's causing some sort of temporary memory error or storage issue.
    It's pretty inconsistent, so I'll try to pinpoint the cause, otherwise woops this will be a lot more broken than I had hoped.

    Also, I'm running this on a modded 360 for YT upload reasons. I don't remember any freezing issues when I played it on an original xbox.

    It could also be the new costumes and inflated costume afs container files.
    Whatever it is, I hope I can find the solution soon.

    Sharing this info with the thread because I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking there haven't been issues with adding this much content to the game.
     
    #211
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  12. grap3fruitman

    grap3fruitman Well-Known Member
    Standard Donor

    Holy shit DOA2 looks beautiful with more fluid walls. That is some amazing work. How are you making all these move changes? You've managed to port over DOA4/5 moves like Hayabusa's teleports? Holy crap! If that's possible, would it be possible to restore some of the grapplers' locked away moves like this one? Or their air and ground throws? Since you've been able to mess with the wall stuff... have you played at all with the ground? This isn't a request list, I'm just wondering what kinds of other things are possible. When I was trying to rebalance DOA4, trying to give the grapplers tools that weren't just juggles was a challenge, but you and your tools are much more capable. I'd be curious what kind of neat results you could find. Kudos on all your work. I love watching all of this even if I'm too lazy to log in and comment every time.
     
    #212
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  13. usagiZ

    usagiZ Active Member

    Main Character:
    Kasumi α
    I've been using hex editors for the moveset changes. There aren't any dedicated moveset tools that I know of :/
    Porting animations from compatible games is basically an elaborate copy-paste.
    The other stuff is just by studying the way the moves are coded and figuring out which flags do what so I can code custom moves.
    Here's a move I'll just make up:
    00 00 95 00 01 00 02 00 0A 00 01 00 0D 00 21 00
    01 00
    1A 00 01 00 0F 00 05 00 1B 00 39 00 01 00
    1F 00
    2A 00 01 00 45 00 00 00 0A 00 FF FF

    This move uses animation 0x95 starting at frame 1 (95 00 01 00)
    Uses normal speed (02 00 0A 00)
    And at frame 0xD initiates an all-body hitbox (01 00 0D 00) , (21 00 01 00)
    Then at frame 0xF, the hitbox is terminated, and allows a string follow-up (01 00 0F 00) , (05 00), (39 00)
    At frame 0x1F the rest of the coding is misc things like rotation after the animation ends, and open vs closed stance etc.
    The move finally ends (at the end of the animation, not at frame 0x1F)
    Move coding is always terminated with FF FF

    I could probably make a ground throw at this point, but I still don't know much about air throws - even after looking at Genfu's in 2U.
    It's coded more like a combo throw rather than a true air throw. I re-allowed standing throws during his :41236::f+p: and I was able to connect standing throws with the falling opponent, so it seems to be a "fake" air throw ._.

    Yeah, same :S
    Porting throws inflates the moveset file too much, and there's a file-size limit I can't remove, currently. The weird part is, it's different for each character, and switching around moveset files seems to change the limit.

    Thank you~ I'll keep looking for things.
    Honestly your DOA4 rebalancing project was a huge inspiration to start looking at the moveset files, even though I couldn't figure anything out until much later.

    I'm glad I can bring some interesting things to show here. Also, I'm just happy to have an audience that's interested lol. Comments are nice, but certainly not a requirement. (they do encourage me to post more, though)
     
    #213
  14. dee4doa

    dee4doa Member

    Wow, it's amazing how so much has been discovered since I left. Amazing work usagiZ! simply great how you can convert character movesets from one game to the other.

    I have a few questions:

    Will you make a tutorial on how to convert movesets? (DOA3->DOA2, DOA4->DOA3 etc) (I'm a derp and still don't really understand it all yet)

    Have you tested out this with the Dreamcast version of Dead Or Alive 2? I'm guessing the inputs are different in that game too, though it would be awesome to import Phase-4, Alpha-152, Christie, Brad-Wong and updated movesets back into the Dreamcast.
     
    #214
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  15. usagiZ

    usagiZ Active Member

    Main Character:
    Kasumi α
    It's nice to see you back~
    Well, I haven't been doing total conversions for the movesets, I've just been copy-pasting bits and pieces between games (it's more elaborate than that, but that's the general idea)

    I have some tutorials/info here in the thread, and yeah they're kinda lengthy and convoluted ._. but I hope they help~

    These methods would absolutely work with the dreamcast version of DOA2 :D
    Maybe even the PS2 DOA2 games if someone really wanted to do that - as long as the file types are similar. (character.mot / character.bin)
    The games with similar files are DOA2 (all versions I think), DOA3, DOA4 (some byte flipping is necessary for animations), DOA Dimensions (animation files are the exact same format as 2 and 3)

    DOA5 and all versions of it have very different motion file formats and I haven't seen any converter for the animations to get them to .mot format yet. (though they reused a lot from Dimensions, so there's gotta be a way...?)
    What I really want is something like [.fbx to DOA2 Animation] converter to make animations from scratch! But that'll never happen~ lol
    The people making tools for DOA modding really only seem to care for 5LR and DOAX3 :/
    (Which makes sense, bc it's current gen and ppl still play it)
     
    #215
  16. DestructionBomb

    DestructionBomb Well-Known Member
    Standard Donor

    Location:
    Bronx, NY
    Main Character:
    Pai Chan
    Gamertag:
    Destructi0nBomb
    PSN ID:
    DestructionBomb
    Steam:
    DestructionBomb
    I just ran games for DOAO not too long ago. Hit me up for games.
     
    #216
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  17. dee4doa

    dee4doa Member

    This is awesome! I found the original DOA2 (Dreamcast and PS2 versions) hardcoded stage selects in the 1st_read.bin (Dreamcast version of XBOX's default.xbe)

    Do you have the offset where the values are stored? as I remember in DOA2 (DC and PS2) the stage values in the stage select are 2 number values (0A - Helena's opera stage as an example) and each value is seperated by '00' to seperate each stage value.

    I changed one of the stages in the stage select to load some unplayable beta/test stages without file swapping (file swap crashes the game anyway) is this how the values are in DOA2U?
     
    #217
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  18. usagiZ

    usagiZ Active Member

    Main Character:
    Kasumi α
    Yes, I remember this video~
    You've figured out so much about DOA2 Dreamcast ._.

    I've only managed to get results with the Time Attack stage lineup, the other modes are probably near this area too, though.
    I'm also hoping to change some things in stage select, but I haven't done much research on it since then.
    (This is in the doa2.xbe)
    [​IMG]
    The stuff circled are the time attack stage values, the other highlighted data is character select stuff, but I haven't been successful in reassigning character slots yet.
    (I've edited some of these values, so it probably won't look exactly like this)
     
    #218
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  19. WAZAAAAA

    WAZAAAAA Well-Known Member

    Location:
    123 Fake Street
    holy shit is that how DOA hitboxes work? Hurtbox = hitbox?
    DOA4's spectator mode seemed to have an hidden hitbox viewer, the only one in the history of the DOA franchise afaik... and I had no idea what I was looking at, but your brief explanation seems to make sense? See the red squares

    [​IMG]
    (picture courtesy of Rikuto)
     
    #219
  20. dee4doa

    dee4doa Member

    Managed to boot DOA2U! I tested your Phase-4 moveset and it works amazingly in the emulator too. Also thanks for the Time-Attack stage offset, with this I'll be able to see what every value corresponds to! :D

    Here's a sneak peek at my progress, as you can tell I've managed to replace a stage value with one that's the wall test stage. I might make a new thread on here for Modding DOA2 (Dreamcast, PS2 and 2U) stages.

    I remember with DOAO, a user made a blender importer for DOAO stages, with it you could make your own custom stages! I have an idea, if I can find the blender DOAO stage importer, make a simple stage and export it back, maybe I can figure out how to export it to DOA2U, meaning we could also make our own stages not only for DOAO but also DOA2U!
    upload_2018-4-23_17-17-14.png
     
    #220
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