Ein video and critique thread
- Thread starter Tenryuga
- Start date
JayceeChris
Member
Hello everyone, i'm new in DOA5U and here's some videos of me playing as Ein (my main) and I would like to have some critiques to improve with him.
The point where I struggle is whiff punishing and keep out game. I think my defense isn't good and I don't really know which range should I try to play.
Sometimes i might be too far then my moves (keep out or whiff punishng tool) whiff or too close and i get counter hit by some moves.
I Know 46P is pretty good because it's almost safe on block but I have been crushed several times trying to whiff punish some moves or strings. Thanks in advance.
There's more here if you want to take a look :
The point where I struggle is whiff punishing and keep out game. I think my defense isn't good and I don't really know which range should I try to play.
Sometimes i might be too far then my moves (keep out or whiff punishng tool) whiff or too close and i get counter hit by some moves.
I Know 46P is pretty good because it's almost safe on block but I have been crushed several times trying to whiff punish some moves or strings. Thanks in advance.
There's more here if you want to take a look :
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
I like that you are trying to incorporate advanced movement techniques in your play. That is critical to Ein. Ein is best hovering at about midrange where he is out of range from jabs and mids such as a characters 3K but not so far away that he cannot hit a 46P or a 236P if the opponent whiffs something. During spacing you want to watch your opponents movements and habits. If they indicate to you that all they like doing is moving back and forth dash in and grab or approach them with strikes. You have to make them feel uncomfortable as that is when they will do something stupid that you can capitalize on.
The Ayane in the first vid is a prime example. You know Ayane is going to try and approach you with 66KK so watch for that move. And I mean both kicks because if you try to whiff punish when you see 66K you will get hit by the second kick. Always try to punish between the second and third kick with 236P or 46P if it can be used. 46P is best used on moves with long recovery that leave people standing or when people are rushing you with strings a good distance away. 236P should only be used when you know you are scoring a hit off of it for example on whiffed wakeup kicks or lows from distance.
When Ayane rolls at you use 4K. That will put her in the air and teach her a lesson. In the second vid you should have went for 46P or 236P when you saw Ayane whiff 4P. Waiting to see if she finished wasn't a bad idea though. In that situation if you feel you were too slow to get a whiff punish go for 46K or 236K to close the gap and get frame advantage. 1K wasn't a bad choice at all just those would have been a bit more effective IMO. You were also staying at fullscreen which I can understand why I against Ayane but in the end its not effective. You always want to be outside of strike range but inside of whiff punish range should someone try to come at you with strikes or gap closers.
Video 3 if you are going to rush in at the range you did make sure you commit to something. If you rush in and guard stay guarding to avoid being counter blown if your opponent decided not to strike you with a keep-out move for rushing in. Never forget that Ein isn't all about spacing and whiff punishment; It is just his strongsuit. There will be times you have to approach your opponent to initiate your offense. Get used to using 1K, 66P, wave dashing, or just running in to start your offense. If you give your opponent a reason to want to keep you out when you are at range that makes it easier for Ein to do serious damage during footsies.
Other than that your Ein is nice. Solid juggles and setups. Keep working at it and you'll be fine. I'm in the same boat as you so it will be cool once we become adept at wrecking people in footsies.
The Ayane in the first vid is a prime example. You know Ayane is going to try and approach you with 66KK so watch for that move. And I mean both kicks because if you try to whiff punish when you see 66K you will get hit by the second kick. Always try to punish between the second and third kick with 236P or 46P if it can be used. 46P is best used on moves with long recovery that leave people standing or when people are rushing you with strings a good distance away. 236P should only be used when you know you are scoring a hit off of it for example on whiffed wakeup kicks or lows from distance.
When Ayane rolls at you use 4K. That will put her in the air and teach her a lesson. In the second vid you should have went for 46P or 236P when you saw Ayane whiff 4P. Waiting to see if she finished wasn't a bad idea though. In that situation if you feel you were too slow to get a whiff punish go for 46K or 236K to close the gap and get frame advantage. 1K wasn't a bad choice at all just those would have been a bit more effective IMO. You were also staying at fullscreen which I can understand why I against Ayane but in the end its not effective. You always want to be outside of strike range but inside of whiff punish range should someone try to come at you with strikes or gap closers.
Video 3 if you are going to rush in at the range you did make sure you commit to something. If you rush in and guard stay guarding to avoid being counter blown if your opponent decided not to strike you with a keep-out move for rushing in. Never forget that Ein isn't all about spacing and whiff punishment; It is just his strongsuit. There will be times you have to approach your opponent to initiate your offense. Get used to using 1K, 66P, wave dashing, or just running in to start your offense. If you give your opponent a reason to want to keep you out when you are at range that makes it easier for Ein to do serious damage during footsies.
Other than that your Ein is nice. Solid juggles and setups. Keep working at it and you'll be fine. I'm in the same boat as you so it will be cool once we become adept at wrecking people in footsies.
JayceeChris
Member
Hi Tenryuga, thank you for your answer, i take note of everything.
I think the reason I play Ein too far away is because my reflexes aren't that good when it comes to punish whiff at mid range. I'm also not confident when my opponent starts his offensive. I can't react fast enough to free cancelling etc...I guess it will comes with time and experience, I'll definitely work on this and keep you updated.
I think the reason I play Ein too far away is because my reflexes aren't that good when it comes to punish whiff at mid range. I'm also not confident when my opponent starts his offensive. I can't react fast enough to free cancelling etc...I guess it will comes with time and experience, I'll definitely work on this and keep you updated.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
I swear we have the same problems lol. Once I lose momentum I have trouble getting it back. I also have problems with people rushing me down still. I've only been using Ein for a short while though so I definitely plan to keep working on him.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
Well, I revived the Hayate video critique thread way back in vanilla with my set against Galen the Wise so I'm going to go ahead and do the same here.
Vids of me have been going up in surplus as of late but I'm going to use this one. A vid of me up against the godfather of Ein players. Using Hitomi but still.
Rip me to shreds.
Vids of me have been going up in surplus as of late but I'm going to use this one. A vid of me up against the godfather of Ein players. Using Hitomi but still.
Rip me to shreds.
JayceeChris
Member
Nice set. I don't have a lot of experience but your Ein looks pretty offensive, and I feel like it's kinda hard to play Ein this way. Nice job, I'm really looking forward for more videos like this one.
By the way, there's stuff that you didn't punish. It is because of lag or you're unfamiliar with the match-up ?
For exemple @ 06:55: The last hit of 3PP is high, you could have ducked on reaction and punished it with a standing throw.
Last but not least, maybe you should try to go "in and out" sometimes to make your opponent whiffs and see if you can capitalize on that.
I don't know what more can I say since i'm not an expert of the Ein-Hitomi match-up, and the game feels kinda new to me. Anyway ggs to both of you.
By the way, there's stuff that you didn't punish. It is because of lag or you're unfamiliar with the match-up ?
For exemple @ 06:55: The last hit of 3PP is high, you could have ducked on reaction and punished it with a standing throw.
Last but not least, maybe you should try to go "in and out" sometimes to make your opponent whiffs and see if you can capitalize on that.
I don't know what more can I say since i'm not an expert of the Ein-Hitomi match-up, and the game feels kinda new to me. Anyway ggs to both of you.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Random ranked match with Ein, first time playing him on PSN I did quite well for a beginner relearning the ropes. a few input issues though.
Finally getting around to expanding my game time with Ein.
Brad is an uncommon sight on PSN, let alone one who kinda knows what he is doing.
I don't get why people do the jitterbug throughout an entire match. I understand spacing is important but when you look like all you want to do is give yourself a seizure than I don't think even you know what you are doing. Seriously, free stepping is useful only in the right situations (no way was this guy trying to use it for environmental stuff).
I need to work on using 33T and comboing off certain setups (the wall, for instance, was supposed to be 214K). At least in this one I free stepped to avoid certain obstacles.
TORI-DAMMIT! TOR-GODDAMMIT! TORIYA-AREYOUFREAKINGSERIOUS!?!
Make that damn attack a true mid so we don't have to deal with that rolling bullshit.
NOOO! I deleted the replay with 5 7Ps connecting in a row.
Brad is an uncommon sight on PSN, let alone one who kinda knows what he is doing.
I don't get why people do the jitterbug throughout an entire match. I understand spacing is important but when you look like all you want to do is give yourself a seizure than I don't think even you know what you are doing. Seriously, free stepping is useful only in the right situations (no way was this guy trying to use it for environmental stuff).
I need to work on using 33T and comboing off certain setups (the wall, for instance, was supposed to be 214K). At least in this one I free stepped to avoid certain obstacles.
TORI-DAMMIT! TOR-GODDAMMIT! TORIYA-AREYOUFREAKINGSERIOUS!?!
Make that damn attack a true mid so we don't have to deal with that rolling bullshit.
NOOO! I deleted the replay with 5 7Ps connecting in a row.
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Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
@XZero264 Couple of things. 6P+K is not a rushdown move. You rush in and use it at range multiple times and that is misuse of it. The move is slow as hell and is -12 on guard so anybody that blocks that is getting a free throw. You should use 6P+K when people think it's a good idea to suicide rush Ein from fullscreen or when people are tossing out strings way out of the right range so you can get a counter hit off it.
The same is to be said for 236P. Whiff punishment or to shut down rushers. If you are unsure if your move is going to score a hit or get blocked then use 46P because that is safe on guard. If you need mids to use stick to P+K and 3K and H+K to track sidestep.
1K is also good if you want to be aggressive at range. Also about 1K you finish it almost all the time with the unsafe followups. Luckily for you it kept scoring hits. If you are going to use 1K like that then go with the sweep or mid kick. Use the punch sparingly and delay all 3 followups at times to throw your opponent off guard. Never use 1KK at tip range; Only use it in stun. The second kick will always whiff at tip range. At tip range you either stop at 1K or go into 1K6P.
Be careful with 66K. It's decent to come in with but players with good reaction will be able to hi counter blow you out of it if you aren't precise and if you manage to land the first hit on block they will crush the high kick.
Moving on to your stun game. I saw you use 9K. If you need a mid kick in stun use 33K or 3K / 3KK. The reason is that the damage output from 33K juggles exceed 9K juggles and 3K / 3KK is a mixup you can use to setup 33T or a deep stun to get to CB. Don't use 6H+K at all because that launcher is balls. 4H+K and WRK are superior to it in damage output and utility. Other than that work on some of his juggles. I saw the BnB CH 3P > 3P> 3P > 6KK in there so that was good.
Overall not bad. Just gotta be a little more patient with him so you don't end up getting blown up for making mistakes.
The same is to be said for 236P. Whiff punishment or to shut down rushers. If you are unsure if your move is going to score a hit or get blocked then use 46P because that is safe on guard. If you need mids to use stick to P+K and 3K and H+K to track sidestep.
1K is also good if you want to be aggressive at range. Also about 1K you finish it almost all the time with the unsafe followups. Luckily for you it kept scoring hits. If you are going to use 1K like that then go with the sweep or mid kick. Use the punch sparingly and delay all 3 followups at times to throw your opponent off guard. Never use 1KK at tip range; Only use it in stun. The second kick will always whiff at tip range. At tip range you either stop at 1K or go into 1K6P.
Be careful with 66K. It's decent to come in with but players with good reaction will be able to hi counter blow you out of it if you aren't precise and if you manage to land the first hit on block they will crush the high kick.
Moving on to your stun game. I saw you use 9K. If you need a mid kick in stun use 33K or 3K / 3KK. The reason is that the damage output from 33K juggles exceed 9K juggles and 3K / 3KK is a mixup you can use to setup 33T or a deep stun to get to CB. Don't use 6H+K at all because that launcher is balls. 4H+K and WRK are superior to it in damage output and utility. Other than that work on some of his juggles. I saw the BnB CH 3P > 3P> 3P > 6KK in there so that was good.
Overall not bad. Just gotta be a little more patient with him so you don't end up getting blown up for making mistakes.
Gurimmjaw
Well-Known Member
This basically day 1 here using Ein. So all criticism is welcomed. Also you will notice I like to use 66KKK. Probably a bad thing to do.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
66KKK should be reserved for juggles and whiff punishment. If you are desperate you can use it to get in but I wouldn't recommend it. You play in an unsafe manner with him and you attack out of disadvantage often. Some moves you did were punishable and the ones that weren't instead of blocking you kept attacking. It's alright though I will give you a full course in Ein since I'm on break from school. I'll shoot you an invite whenever I'm on PSN and walk you through him. He is very basic so he will be easy for you to pick up.
Random ranked match with Ein, first time playing him on PSN I did quite well for a beginner relearning the ropes. a few input issues though.
Damn dude I just saw this lol. Since its been a month anyway upload another vid so I can see your progress?
Also add me if you are on PSN.
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Gurimmjaw
Well-Known Member
Yeah you are right, though 66KKK I took some chances with. So I should probably stop abusing 66KKK. Though I am aware that 66KKK is unsafe and is at -15 on block along with 4H+K. I took risks with these moves. Though I haven't really gone through his frame data to see what safe and unsafe and what gives him advantage. Would probably be best to go through that.
And thanks for that appreciate the help with him. I will probably also watch Allan Parris's Ein Tutorial as well. He is really fun to use and wasn't aware that his 6P was a critical hit. From what I have doing in the practice 33K seems to be his best launcher.
I also like to do 46P when the opponent tries to come near me.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Yeah 33K is the most handy since it's quick, hits mid and leads to solid damage. WRK is his most damaging launcher. I would definitely start by looking through his frames. 46P, 4K, H+K, 214K are the best responses when people are trying to come at you. 4H+K is alright; I would save that for when people are mashing strings trying to come at you. And yeah 6P stuns but its 14 frames and the stun isn't as good as his 3P. His 3P is his best tool for counter poking and getting stuns because it is +40 no SE and +30 with SE so you have alot of time to do whatever you want. It also hits mid so people cant get you with random crush attacks when they are at disadvantage or in stun.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Lol, fortunately I do have a replay with Ein against Rachel that I was pretty proud of since I can't play her much BUT I made ALOT of mistakes, which is actually a good thing if anyone knows any decent Rachel tactics I'd be grateful.Damn dude I just saw this lol. Since its been a month anyway upload another vid so I can see your progress?
Also add me if you are on PSN.
And sure, I've actually been meaning to but kept forgetting. Aelivia said to add you for some Ein/general practice haha
EDIT: Gurrimjaw, You should definitely watch his beginner tutorial I can't honestly tell you how much it helped me out. If it wasn't for the tutorial I'd still be playing completely unsafe and rushing rather than zoning.
Another great tool is his 6P+K now, it is nerfed to the ground so it's not as good in previous games but you can still get some range with it it's a nice counter for mid - fairly long range opponents throwing out unsafe attacks and with Ein having distance at his advantage Ein has the upper hand. But I wouldn't rely on it, H+K and 46P are much better options but it does help out if you're at mid/long range.
And practice WRKs until you get them pitch perfect lol it will seriously help for combos such as CB: WRK WRK 6KK, WRK 3P PP4PK and finally WRK 6KK(mainly for heavies)
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UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Here we go:
kinda lame gameplay here but it's the only decent one that I saved recently lol
kinda lame gameplay here but it's the only decent one that I saved recently lol
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Try to avoid 1KP outside of stun since its unsafe on block. I suggest sticking to 1K then free cancelling or going into 1K6P strings. In stun I would advise against free cancelling 1K because the followups to it are just so damn good in stun. 1KK is a ground bounce leading into a 66KKK juggle early threshold and on heavyweights and 1KP is less damage but good enough to make the mixup worthwhile. 1K6P is great because it creates a scenario that forces them to deal with a potential 1K6PP or 1K6PK which is a nice mixup when you are closing in on a wall.
Other than that be careful when you choose to strike so you don't get counterhit. You did 236P which got blocked and then tried to attack afterward which never works.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
that second 1KP where I did nothing after was actually meant to be 1K6P but for some reason the online didn't register the 6P only P , And yeah I hear you I still make noob mistakes every now and then but I've come very far from how I was playing him when I first got the game. If I can manage to get online more and constantly practice my Ein should be at a decent level in no time.
I know howto space and zone I just happen to either fall under victim of the input buffer or make mistakes from time to time. Also need to stop relying on 33T since it rarely comes out for me lol
I know howto space and zone I just happen to either fall under victim of the input buffer or make mistakes from time to time. Also need to stop relying on 33T since it rarely comes out for me lol
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
I saw this, it was interesting to see the two Offbeats go at it, although I had no idea Offbeat Ninjas/OpTic_Virgil was his student or supposedly his student. Probably why a few people probably still think he's the real offbeat, Artpop is less aggressive as OpTic though.
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