iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
Not really, it works best when you're closest to your opponent since he has a long range kick. But it should work.
Characters Eliot Apprentice of the Iron Fist Combo's
- Thread starter iThe Apprentice
- Start date
Then it aint guaranteed .. lol
when you gt put into turn around the only option you have is SE ..(Unless you're LeiFang or Bayman who have BT parries ) .. so that technically makes it useless ..
Hes really limited when you go with fastest SE
iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
But think about it, How many people actually slow escape that fast? I only set it to fast or slow. It still works well & it gives you over 100 Damage on CH.
Everyone I know does actually .. SE is really a huge factor ..
Does he have any crumple stuns apart from CB? (i.e. Stuns that dont allow SE)
Does he have any crumple stuns apart from CB? (i.e. Stuns that dont allow SE)
Yaguar
Well-Known Member
is a deep stun but not a crumple. I have his frame data from 5, I'll check if I wrote in any crumples and I'll start checking from there. Might be tomorrow, been playing P4A tonight.Edit:
Not checked game but crumples from 5 I have listed are:
iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
No crumple stuns, at all.
Yaguar
Well-Known Member
Personal opinion on Eliot's stun game is that he doesn't have one. It is best treated as being a frame advantage. So gives you +13 frames, not a sit down stun. Whether you use this to apply pressure vs. a potential block or mix it up with is your call.
is the prime example of what Eliot has. It's a mid tracking kick that on CH knocks out of reach and gives +1. Basically a spacing frame advantage strike. This is just me, he is fun and I take that as the most important factor.
If everything goes tits up he is pretty safe and can drop a lot of strings on block at -4 (, being prime examples).
Someone SE'ing though is looking for a block generally to escape the stuns, this works wonders for him. or are my go to's and rack up the damage. Soon enough they'll have to do something to stop them and you can lead with for some stun launch damage, fix them up next to a wall and ruin them.
This is my current strategy whilst I try to work out how iTheApprentice is ruining people with him. He's the king I want to be.
gives you +13 frames, not a sit down stun. Whether you use this to apply pressure vs. a potential block or mix it up with is your call. is the prime example of what Eliot has. It's a mid tracking kick that on CH knocks out of reach and gives +1. Basically a spacing frame advantage strike. This is just me, he is fun and I take that as the most important factor.If everything goes tits up he is pretty safe and can drop a lot of strings on block at -4 (
, being prime examples).Someone SE'ing though is looking for a block generally to escape the stuns, this works wonders for him.
or are my go to's and rack up the damage. Soon enough they'll have to do something to stop them and you can lead with for some stun launch damage, fix them up next to a wall and ruin them.This is my current strategy whilst I try to work out how iTheApprentice is ruining people with him. He's the king I want to be.
so let me get this straight ..
- No crumple stuns ... apart from CB
- Nothing guaranteed apart from 9K from a parry... and even 9KK isnt guaranteed
- No single hit high launcher (9KK and 2P+KP+K are the only 2nd hit high launchers and they're not guaranteed)
- Fastest mid strike is 14 frames (3K and 6P.... (3)P being 13 frames doesnt count since you need to factor in the crouch frame making it slower than it is and not comboable in a +15 frame stun)
- Fastest Low is 14 frames (2P) .. gives nothing on NH and only +4 in stun
- Fastest High is 9 frames (7P) and it gives NOTHING ...
- NO frame advantage on block apart from some GB moves (236P=+2, 236K=+3, PB=+16 and grants utter shit, 4H+K is +17 ... but its 87 fucking frames LOL)
- not to mention that his execution is a bitch as well ...
so .. what the hell is good about this character?
hes so depressing
Please note that I'm not trying to bring you guys down .. I'm seriously trying to learn him and I'm finding extreme difficulty in comparison to the whole rest of the cast ... hell even Zack is 100 times more reliable ..
- No crumple stuns ... apart from CB
- Nothing guaranteed apart from 9K from a parry... and even 9KK isnt guaranteed
- No single hit high launcher (9KK and 2P+KP+K are the only 2nd hit high launchers and they're not guaranteed)
- Fastest mid strike is 14 frames (3K and 6P.... (3)P being 13 frames doesnt count since you need to factor in the crouch frame making it slower than it is and not comboable in a +15 frame stun)
- Fastest Low is 14 frames (2P) .. gives nothing on NH and only +4 in stun
- Fastest High is 9 frames (7P) and it gives NOTHING ...
- NO frame advantage on block apart from some GB moves (236P=+2, 236K=+3, PB=+16 and grants utter shit, 4H+K is +17 ... but its 87 fucking frames LOL)
- not to mention that his execution is a bitch as well ...
so .. what the hell is good about this character?
hes so depressing
Please note that I'm not trying to bring you guys down .. I'm seriously trying to learn him and I'm finding extreme difficulty in comparison to the whole rest of the cast ... hell even Zack is 100 times more reliable ..
iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
Pretty much but he's fun to play as! If you look at him in the technical side he's complete shit. But just finding new ways to play with him makes him so much more fun!
QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
On the surface is Eliot garbage but i personally i try to play him like a mix as grappler and spacer.
The most player have no experience to play against Eliot cause Eliot player very rarely often call me ppl as spam eliot but when they spam mid holds against him lol what should i do ^^
His 214T 10 frames gives +10 can be lead into a 12 frames 236T its not guaranteed but it works for me so good.
On Neutral 214T 45 damage - 236T 6k 4pp 6ppk 69 damage = 114(!) damage on neutral
His 66p+k still a great range move and give + damage on close hit and a guard break +4
Of course when i look back i miss the golden 7p counter hit the h+k 6p+k 6h+k juggle and 6p+k as deep stun but Eliot is still a unique and wonderful char that makes insane fun to kick some ninja asses!
The most player have no experience to play against Eliot cause Eliot player very rarely often call me ppl as spam eliot but when they spam mid holds against him lol what should i do ^^
His 214T 10 frames gives +10 can be lead into a 12 frames 236T its not guaranteed but it works for me so good.
On Neutral 214T 45 damage - 236T 6k 4pp 6ppk 69 damage = 114(!) damage on neutral
His 66p+k still a great range move and give + damage on close hit and a guard break +4
Of course when i look back i miss the golden 7p counter hit the h+k 6p+k 6h+k juggle and 6p+k as deep stun but Eliot is still a unique and wonderful char that makes insane fun to kick some ninja asses!
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Cow pls lol
iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
AMEN!
Yaguar
Well-Known Member
Learn to LOVE and its priority of doom.
Honestly, fish for a grab. All you wanna do, fish for it, if it doesn't arrive? They've just slammed into a wall and this is an easy 100+ damage for him with potential to drop some for +24 frames pseudo-tech.
He has game, you're just working a lot harder for it than anyone else. You will get them.H+K: eventually induces fear. On water that shit is 100%. People will want to counter him, then they'll begin to fear the grab punishment. He's a mental battle, one that I suck at but I'd rate him in that area. Induce fear, conquer mistakes.
and its priority of doom.Honestly, fish for a grab. All you wanna do, fish for it, if it doesn't arrive? They've just slammed into a wall and this is an easy 100+ damage for him with potential to drop some for +24 frames pseudo-tech.
He has game, you're just working a lot harder for it than anyone else. You will get them.
H+K: eventually induces fear. On water that shit is 100%. People will want to counter him, then they'll begin to fear the grab punishment. He's a mental battle, one that I suck at but I'd rate him in that area. Induce fear, conquer mistakes.
iThe Apprentice
Well-Known Member
Playing Mind games like crazy. I always love doingLearn to LOVE
Honestly, fish for a grab. All you wanna do, fish for it, if it doesn't arrive? They've just slammed into a wall and this is an easy 100+ damage for him with potential to drop some for +24 frames pseudo-tech.
He has game, you're just working a lot harder for it than anyone else. You will get them.
I makes people fear me. Especially when I tech up after a large knock-back. People be like Then I just go in and start my mix up stun game. Then again my other favorite move is It;s confusing to people.
Pls what ? did I say anything wrong ?
I'm really having trouble with this character ... I mean in terms of reliability ..
CH 2H+K P is guaranteed yes .. see .. he needs more shit like that .. but on normal grounds
Playing Mind games like crazy. I always love doing
You guys talk about mixup like its something unique to him, or its something he excels at ..
hes SLOW ... like GRAPPLER SLOW ...
and every character in this game can mixup the same, if not better than him ...
he cant even start offense properly .. he has to either go for a whiff punish or wait for a tiny frame advantage and even then its shit cuz he can't guarantee anything .. cuz hes SLOW !
I dunno man .. I really wanna get better with this character.. but I cant find that ... individuality that I find with the rest of the cast ... like what the hell is his .. thing??
The sabaki into single stun into CB is great .. see I like that ..
he needs more setups like that ... that give a double guess CB at least ... every other setup he does is a triple guess or higher ..
going for a mere stun launch isnt even that great either .. I used to think that with his relaunch properties he may be a bit stronger with arial control .. but his net damage ends up being just like any other character with a decent juggle .. which I find really upsetting considering the hard execution he requires to dish out that damage ..
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It's easy to bait with Eliot as well. You can throw one punch and the opponent will try to counter, but you just throw them for extra damage. Eliot's predictability can be used to your advantage, especially if you use followed up with some ending with whatever string you decide for maximum damage. Eliot has some pretty good juggles, so always try to hit low to trip up your opponent and get them in the air. Also, is a good tool to get pressure of you, as it as saved me from overly aggressive players using aggressive characters. And another thing, Eliot can parry, so try and throw those out when you can. The fact that he's one of the few parrying characters alone makes him worthy of a look.
followed up with some ending with whatever string you decide for maximum damage. Eliot has some pretty good juggles, so always try to hit low to trip up your opponent and get them in the air. Also, is a good tool to get pressure of you, as it as saved me from overly aggressive players using aggressive characters. And another thing, Eliot can parry, so try and throw those out when you can. The fact that he's one of the few parrying characters alone makes him worthy of a look.
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
Welcome to Helliot where you're constantly second guessing your next move because thats what his entire playstyle relies on.
QueenJakheiho
Well-Known Member
^^
OK so he does have a single hit high launcher .. on CH ..
9K .. ok .. so thats good .. shame that his parry doesnt put the opponent in critical stun though .. thats why the 9K doesnt launch in that state .. which is what threw me off ..
ok ok .. back to the lab
I can confirm that
(CH)66K and (CH)214P are crumple stuns that do not allow SE
9K .. ok .. so thats good .. shame that his parry doesnt put the opponent in critical stun though .. thats why the 9K doesnt launch in that state .. which is what threw me off ..
ok ok .. back to the lab
I can confirm that
(CH)66K and (CH)214P are crumple stuns that do not allow SE
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ok ... retarded find ...
sabaki 214P deals the same damage regardless whether its NH or Hi Counter .. >__>
I guess its because the hold portion of the sabaki is what is a hi counter and not the strike portion ..
Makes sense ..
same with Lei Fang's Sabakis
sabaki 214P deals the same damage regardless whether its NH or Hi Counter .. >__>
I guess its because the hold portion of the sabaki is what is a hi counter and not the strike portion ..
Makes sense ..
same with Lei Fang's Sabakis
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