Community Excuses To Not Play/Learn Dead or Alive.

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Both Eliot and MR are lower end tier in this link.

Also it says it was last updated in 2014.
That's pretty much the current standing as well, if you look down at the end of the post a moderator updated it October 2016, plus I think honoka is in that list and she didn't debut in 2014.
 

bluecloud

New Member
That's pretty much the current standing as well, if you look down at the end of the post a moderator updated it October 2016, plus I think honoka is in that list and she didn't debut in 2014.

Okay I took a second look. Assuming that the last round tier was updated in oct 2016. And that is the current tier.

Marie Rose, Eliot, and Nyotengu are all in the bottom tier like I said they would be lol. The only mid rank one is bass(shockingly).

Also hyabusa, and ayane are also in the highest tier which is identical to eventhubs tier. The one you said didn't know anything about balance.

So yeah...
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Okay I took a second look. Assuming that the last round tier was updated in oct 2016. And that is the current tier.

Marie Rose, Eliot, and Nyotengu are all in the bottom tier like I said they would be lol. The only mid rank one is bass(shockingly).

Also hyabusa, and ayane are also in the highest tier which is identical to eventhubs tier. The one you said didn't know anything about balance.

So yeah...
Hayabusa still isn't highest tier tho, the ninjas have always been the better characters in the games aside from Christie and Gen fu
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
There is no "official" tier list for DOA5. It's been discussed here before numerous times, but no consensus has ever been reached. And Eventhubs sure as hell is not where you should be looking for it.
 

bluecloud

New Member
There is no "official" tier list for DOA5. It's been discussed here before numerous times, but no consensus has ever been reached. And Eventhubs sure as hell is not where you should be looking for it.

Team ninja actually did release this as their generated tier list.


U - Akira
S - Leifang, Hayabusa, Kasumi, Ayane, Gen Fu
A - Bayman, Pai, Eliot, Christie, Helena, Momiji, Hayate, La Mariposa
B - Jacky, Rig, Jann Lee, Hitomi, Mila, Zack, Sarah, Kokoro, Leon, Honoka, Bass, Marie Rose, Tina, Honoka, Phase 4, Raidou, Ein, Nyotengu, :Rachel, Brad Wong, Alpha-152

I don't think anyone really agrees with this though.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Team ninja actually did release this as their generated tier list.


U - Akira
S - Leifang, Hayabusa, Kasumi, Ayane, Gen Fu
A - Bayman, Pai, Eliot, Christie, Helena, Momiji, Hayate, La Mariposa
B - Jacky, Rig, Jann Lee, Hitomi, Mila, Zack, Sarah, Kokoro, Leon, Honoka, Bass, Marie Rose, Tina, Honoka, Phase 4, Raidou, Ein, Nyotengu, :Rachel, Brad Wong, Alpha-152

I don't think anyone really agrees with this though.

It's never really a good idea to believe what the developer believes in this case. An "official" tier list would be one devised by the competitive community after years of competitive play and discussion.
 

bluecloud

New Member
It's never really a good idea to believe what the developer believes in this case. An "official" tier list would be one devised by the competitive community after years of competitive play and discussion.

Well even if we ignore this tier list by team ninja. Tiers can be biased even if they are considered "official".

But tiers that show consistency I think are much more truthful. Which it just happens both tiers being discussed are identical. What I mean is, I rather look at the trend than this one "almighty" tier done by X community.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Team ninja actually did release this as their generated tier list.


U - Akira
S - Leifang, Hayabusa, Kasumi, Ayane, Gen Fu
A - Bayman, Pai, Eliot, Christie, Helena, Momiji, Hayate, La Mariposa
B - Jacky, Rig, Jann Lee, Hitomi, Mila, Zack, Sarah, Kokoro, Leon, Honoka, Bass, Marie Rose, Tina, Honoka, Phase 4, Raidou, Ein, Nyotengu, :Rachel, Brad Wong, Alpha-152

I don't think anyone really agrees with this though.
Yeah especially since Honoka is listed twice...
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Wow I didn't even notice that. That's what I get for posting from a random site lol. Please disregard that tier.

I've actually seen that list on their twitter one time, that list isn't that great. If anything, that list seems more roughly on paper or generalized and likely won't exactly be embedded to actual play. The list doesn't even have Mai nor Naotora either so that one was likely posted the moment DOA5LR was released.

On a fair note, it's pretty hard to trust TN making the list since they don't really play the game as much even if they made the game.

That's pretty much the current standing as well, if you look down at the end of the post a moderator updated it October 2016, plus I think honoka is in that list and she didn't debut in 2014.

That list can also use some work too, one of the hardest things about making tiers is that people will make placements due to their own approach of certain characters using their own and vice-versa, but that's relying on probability and not a guaranteed placement since player skill gap is involved.
 
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bluecloud

New Member
I've actually seen that list on their twitter one time, that list isn't that great. If anything, that list seems more roughly on paper or generalized and likely won't exactly be embedded to actual play. The list doesn't even have Mai nor Naotora either so that one was likely posted the moment DOA5LR was released.

On a fair note, it's pretty hard to trust TN making the list since they don't really play the game as much even if they made the game.



That list can also use some work too, one of the hardest things about making tiers is that people will make placements due to their own approach of certain characters using their own and vice-versa, but that's relying on probability and not a guaranteed placement since player skill gap is involved.

I'm pretty late to this as I didn't even notice the notification.

But after playing for quite some time now. I think the issue with balance is that some characters have far too many tools. While other characters get too little. It's not even just the number difference of tools, but even the quality of tools gap between a top tier and a low tier is staggering. Then top that off with everyone getting the hold system, at that point it's virtually impossible to close the gap.

This may sound crazy but I am starting to think not every character should have the ability to use holds. I feel like it's just widening a gap instead of closing it between characters. Or it shouldn't be the only way for the lesser characters to have a chance.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I'm pretty late to this as I didn't even notice the notification.

But after playing for quite some time now. I think the issue with balance is that some characters have far too many tools. While other characters get too little. It's not even just the number difference of tools, but even the quality of tools gap between a top tier and a low tier is staggering. Then top that off with everyone getting the hold system, at that point it's virtually impossible to close the gap.

This may sound crazy but I am starting to think not every character should have the ability to use holds. I feel like it's just widening a gap instead of closing it between characters.
????
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Yes I know it's crazy but think about it. Do characters like Hyabusa, and Ayane for starters REALLY need to have holds in comparison to characters like Bass and Bayman?
Well here's the thing, holds and their properties are balanced depending on the characters, like here's an example using the characters I use regularly:

:kasumi:~ Has one expert hold, four parries(her 49H and 43H one imo can be considered expert parries) and her low kick hold have a combo opportunity but you gotta work for it, and even then the game will scale her damage down. Her holds otherwise are average in damage and don't really have environmental interactions

:phase4:~Similar to kasumi, but the parries are stripped away. Her mid punch hold now gives her ample distance and interacts with walls, and her low kick hold arguably benefits her more than even Kasumi but then again she needs it because she's pretty limited. Has a high punch expert hold but you gotta work for the damage output and make a good read. She needs them since she has to play defensive and wait for an opening.

:marierose:~Has OHs, and expert holds and fairly good hold damage but being average in speed and low on damage, she needs these to keep up. She has great combo damage potential from her expert holds alone.

:naotora:~Has probably some of the most mediocre holds in the game, like christie her holds are only there to give her a way to shut down attacks, they're pretty mediocre in damage and don't have any special properties bar her mid punch hold which gives her the space she needs, although her 66T is better. Pretty basic but gets the job done.

:ein:~Basic holds an no expert holds but has environmental interaction, plus he has average but still effective OHs.

:mai:~Simple but effective holds. I'd rate them above average, especially thanks to her mid kick hold and her high punch hold alone.

:eliot:~Has basic holds and defensive parries that don't necessarily guarantee much but still gives him a bait opportunity. His mid punch is notable since it gives him a BT combo opportunity but other than that his other holds are pretty average.
 

bluecloud

New Member
Well here's the thing, holds and their properties are balanced depending on the characters, like here's an example using the characters I use regularly:

:kasumi:~ Has one expert hold, four parries(her 49H and 43H one imo can be considered expert parries) and her low kick hold have a combo opportunity but you gotta work for it, and even then the game will scale her damage down. Her holds otherwise are average in damage and don't really have environmental interactions

:phase4:~Similar to kasumi, but the parries are stripped away. Her mid punch hold now gives her ample distance and interacts with walls, and her low kick hold arguably benefits her more than even Kasumi but then again she needs it because she's pretty limited. Has a high punch expert hold but you gotta work for the damage output and make a good read. She needs them since she has to play defensive and wait for an opening.

:marierose:~Has OHs, and expert holds and fairly good hold damage but being average in speed and low on damage, she needs these to keep up. She has great combo damage potential from her expert holds alone.

:naotora:~Has probably some of the most mediocre holds in the game, like christie her holds are only there to give her a way to shut down attacks, they're pretty mediocre in damage and don't have any special properties bar her mid punch hold which gives her the space she needs, although her 66T is better. Pretty basic but gets the job done.

:ein:~Basic holds an no expert holds but has environmental interaction, plus he has average but still effective OHs.

:mai:~Simple but effective holds. I'd rate them above average, especially thanks to her mid kick hold and her high punch hold alone.

:eliot:~Has basic holds and defensive parries that don't necessarily guarantee much but still gives him a bait opportunity. His mid punch is notable since it gives him a BT combo opportunity but other than that his other holds are pretty average.

I don't know these characters by the picture but I see the point you are trying to make.
 

The Spine

Well-Known Member
Find me a tier not done by team ninja that doesn't put the characters I just mentioned in C or lower. You won't find it.

Also your pic pretty much says it all why you think the fan service isn't an issue. This is just fan boying at it's finest lol.

Let's go back to my original point about the state of balance. Here is one tier that I think gives a pretty good idea where the characters stand. I'm sure someone else here could link a few.

https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/doa5/
Naotora is above Gen Fu and Akira. Don't put this tier list in front of people, it's flat out wrong.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
The stuns a character gets off their attacks can make it so the opponent can't hold in stun.
 

bluecloud

New Member
Naotora is above Gen Fu and Akira. Don't put this tier list in front of people, it's flat out wrong.

"It's flat out wrong" Why is it wrong? Unlike this sites tier, it's up to date on all the characters.

Give us an up-dated tier that is not from this site or the one I linked and we can discuss from there. I think it makes sense to provide a tier if you are going challenge someone else's.
 
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