Fighter graphics and art style discussion

Paige

Member
That attempt of a comparison is by the way a nice try, but only a nice try. ;)

1) One can't properly compare a 3D model just by screenshots/photos. Different perspectives, different camera settings, different lighting, different everything basically. That Honoka's face seems a little bigger here or is differently proportioned can happen just because the perspective is slightly different.

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See what changes perspective and lighting can make?

2) The model that they use in that indie game is obviously altered anyway. Pink hair, bigger bust etc. You can easily rip the Marie Rose/Honoka model from DOA5, alter it slightly and voila. It's not rocket science and not that much work. Modders do it all the time. So if one is pointing to slight differences that does in no way eliminate the possibility that these game developers ripped Marie Rose's or Honoka's model from DOA5.



We have an active general graphics thread:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-art-style-and-graphics-discussion.5842/



honoka_is_marie_truth_by_lordlkkamikaze-d8dvztz.png.jpg https://lordlkkamikaze.deviantart.com/art/Honoka-is-Marie-truth-507057191

That's fair enough, although the comparison above seems legit considering Marie Rose and Honoka only have subtle differences in facial features.

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Same goes with Mai and Momiji.
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That DOA rip-off is plain to see though. Marie Rose and Honoka were mixed up.



EDIT: http://steamcommunity.com/app/665090/discussions/0/1457328927849361578 :confused:
 
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GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
So it was. Putting their faces together, TN only put slight variances on their features. I also spoke of them from a game play and aesthetic point as well but these arguments are foregone at this point
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
They look similar but not completely so, Momiji has slightly more almond shaped eyes than Mai and more defined lips. Honoka looks similar but she has more unique facial expressions than Marie does which can be seen in gameplay. Tbh if you put honoka and Marie in the same outfit and hairstyle and color and body model I bet you I could tell them apart, same with Momiji and Mai. XD they're subtle changes but easy to discern imo
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
In addition to that, Momiji and Mai have two completely different expressions and demeanors, even as they fight (which should have been obvious to those who were familiar with both of the characters anyway).
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
In addition to that, Momiji and Mai have two completely different expressions and demeanors, even as they fight (which should have been obvious to those who were familiar with both of the characters anyway).
I would think you have something against Momiji with how far you reach saying these two are completely different lol
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
I would think you have something against Momiji with how far you reach saying these two are completely different lol
Reaching, huh. That's like me saying that you hold something against Mai just because you think she looks similar to Momiji. If people actually think they are that similar, besides sharing some facial features from the models, then they haven't really played any other SNK title. As for me not liking Momiji? Guess what, you're wrong. I actually like Momiji a lot as a character, to the point where I actually thought about playing her besides a few others, even in tournaments. But, Nyotengu happened. Anything else?
 
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DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's not the first time a character base model was used from another model with noticeable features. Tekken does it. I can open them up as well. You can't exactly port Mai directly from KOF into DOA and then creating a whole new one. Better to get another base model for easier time because I mean, why not? Maximum Impact is her own general model but it wasn't used because it's completely different than the standard, overall she's never had a 3D model type for this type of fighter in general. It is far easier (and less time consumption) to just get one from another character. Same as most of the cast.

In terms of character and personality, they are completely different. Facial features? yeah I can see it no offense to Mai, but not at all surprised since there are quite a few in the cast who usually follow the same routine.
 
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Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Reaching, huh. That's like me saying that you hold something against Mai just because you think she looks similar to Momiji. If people actually think they are that similar, besides sharing some facial features from the models, then they haven't really played any other SNK title. As for me not liking Momiji? Guess what, you're wrong. I actually like Momiji a lot as a character, to the point where I actually thought about playing her besides a few others, even in tournaments. But, Nyotengu happened. Anything else?
Why do I have to play any SNK games to be able to see they're both Japanese girls with long dark ponytails, similar bangs, fire powers, and red and white traditional-looking japanese clothing who now share a face in DOA

Like of course they have different personalities which I think is what you're trying to get at but I don't think anyone's ever said that..ever
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Mai does look like Momiji on the facial department for DOA. Course, not surprised. It's a DOA and Tekken thing to be honest.
 
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GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
Why do I have to play any SNK games to be able to see they're both Japanese girls with long dark ponytails, similar bangs, fire powers, and red and white traditional-looking japanese clothing who now share a face in DOA

Like of course they have different personalities which I think is what you're trying to get at but I don't think anyone's ever said that..ever

Oh, sure. Different personalities. No one in the whole, wide world has ever said that shit before. Ever! Nevermind their (blatantly) different move sets, two completely different game play styles (which is made clear in how Mai's move set works in the first place which is primarily based on her KOFXIII incarnation, with a handful of moves from the Real Bout series and KOF98, plus the cancels she implements from her strings), backgrounds, two completely different series, two completely different traits, motives, and different animations behind them.

Your point is that they appear to objectively share some of the same facial features in their models and some of the same aesthetics. That's the nature of how DOA models function. Most people got that point, hence that aspect being a foregone conclusion. The same shit can be said for QUITE a few other characters in this game. More educated individuals can clearly see the actual differences between the two if they are familiar with both the DOA and the SNK series, and even then, it should still be obvious anyway, hence why I corrected individuals on their differences in the first place. If you're going to specifically hold that shit against me, then so fucking be it. It's not like I am the only one who spoke about this issue either when Mai became a thing on DOA.
 
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Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's actually really interesting to look at this old thread, opened about one year into this current console generation, and to look at how fighting games have graphically developed since then.

First of all, graphically no one really talks about Killer Instinct anymore. It never really was a stylistically or technically good looking game. Back then it was the first current gen fighter though.

As I back then predicted, Tekken 7 didn't get a real graphical overhaul. The supposed graphical update from Tekken 7 Arcade to Tekken 7 Fated Retribution was nothing more than the addition of some post processing effects like film grain, color filters and chromatic aberration, which all make the game look worse imo. PC players are mostly disabling these image quality killing effects, while console players have to unfortunately live with them. The game just doesn't look good on PS4 and even worse on Xbox One due to even lower resolution.
Let's hope upcoming 3D fighters don't rely on Unreal Engine 4 too much, which scales down poorly from PC to the less powerful consoles, especially with fighting games that have to run in 60fps.

Street Fighter V (hate or love its art direction) looked a lot better on the images, that I posted in the opening post, than it looked at release of the game.
The lighting changed, it's much flatter lit now and the very detailed cloth and skin textures on characters are gone too. SFV's characters look much more like clay characters now.
SFV was optimized for powerful PCs to run it, even though it was marketed as this big Sony console exclusive. On PS4 the game ended up looking pretty disappointing. Poor image quality, terrible shadow dithering and low detail backgrounds with washed out, blurry textures.
Interesting to note: This game also uses Unreal Engine 4. See a pattern?

Injustice 2 came along just a couple of months ago and proved that optimization for consoles first can actually lead to impressive visual results:

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(Yes, there are also brighter and more colorful stages, but I preferred to showcase these for now. ;))

Injustice 2 is easily the best looking fighter of this generation and that on just the consoles and using the old (but highly optimized) Unreal Engine 3. Highly detailed character models, beautifully lit, nearly photo realistic backgrounds, breathtaking stage transitions and character super moves and last but not least some of the best facial animations that we have seen in any video game yet.

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NeatherRealm really stepped up the graphics game and I hope future fighters like DOA6 or Soul Calibur 6 (which I still hope will come eventually) will go even further. These two series were after all always known for their visual accomplishments.
But, damn, would I have been disappointed if I knew back then, when I opened this thread, that three years after that there is still none of those two fighters in sight.

Other notable fighting games that we know are upcoming and that are looking not bad at all so far are:
- Dissidia, which impresses with six detailed character models on screen at once, huge stages and an insane firework of effects that completely fills the screen.

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- Dragon Ball Fighters Z, which uses Arc System's amazing anime stylized engine to bring DBZ from 2D into 3D and you can hardly even tell that it isn't a 2D anime.

Dragon-Ball-FighterZ-190945.jpg
 
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Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Oh, sure. Different personalities. No one in the whole, wide world has ever said that shit before. Ever! Nevermind their (blatantly) different move sets, two completely different game play styles (which is made clear in how Mai's move set works in the first place which is primarily based on her KOFXIII incarnation, with a handful of moves from the Real Bout series and KOF98, plus the cancels she implements from her strings), backgrounds, two completely different series, two completely different traits, motives, and different animations behind them.

Your point is that they appear to objectively share some of the same facial features in their models and some of the same aesthetics. That's the nature of how DOA models function. Most people got that point, hence that aspect being a foregone conclusion. The same shit can be said for QUITE a few other characters in this game. More educated individuals can clearly see the actual differences between the two if they are familiar with both the DOA and the SNK series, and even then, it should still be obvious anyway, hence why I corrected individuals on their differences in the first place. If you're going to specifically hold that shit against me, then so fucking be it. It's not like I am the only one who spoke about this issue either when Mai became a thing on DOA.
The 'you're deluded if you think they're similar' 'more educated individuals can clearly see differences' 'people familiar with these characters know better' shit is the stuff I remember and "hold against" you tbh. They're two characters that look like each other and throw fire around why are you so upset discussing it

On the "that's how doa works" subject who else in the roster besides Kasumi/Phase-4 (since Kasumi was directly inspired by Mai and Phase 4 is just Kasumi) has this much in common with another character design-wise? All I can really think of that's close is Rachel and Sarah. Tall, blonde ponytail (though Rachel's is a lot different), sharp blue eyes, patent leather C1. I mean even siblings like Kasumi and Ayane that also have the same face look completely different when you take the rest of their design into account.
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
The 'you're deluded if you think they're similar' 'more educated individuals can clearly see differences' 'people familiar with these characters know better' shit is the stuff I remember and "hold against" you tbh. They're two characters that look like each other and throw fire around why are you so upset discussing it

On the "that's how doa works" subject who else in the roster besides Kasumi/Phase-4 (since Kasumi was directly inspired by Mai and Phase 4 is just Kasumi) has this much in common with another character design-wise? All I can really think of that's close is Rachel and Sarah. Tall, blonde ponytail (though Rachel's is a lot different), sharp blue eyes, patent leather C1. I mean even siblings like Kasumi and Ayane that also have the same face look completely different when you take the rest of their design into account.

I already highlighted your argument earlier. Palette swaps (in 2D games) and similar models in 3D models is not a new fucking concept. You were trying to make a big deal about Mai and Momiji having similar facial models, specifically. I already acknowledged that specific concept ages ago. There are similar features between thise models, among several other characters. While saying this I also highlighted their obvious differences. Some even went as far as to make them seem as if they were somehow the same character, when they clearly aren't. Not necessarily you, but other users in addition to some ignorant tweet posts made on the subject. Those were the individuals I was trying to call out. You seem to have a weird ass grudge against me because I've done so. Some of the male characters (like Ein, Hayate, the former of the two which is a literal clone. Bayman and Leon may have similarities in their models as well, not so much in their faces but definitely in body structure. The staff at Tekken will do this sort of thing as well with their body models (specifically with the male characters, adding aesthetic changes to the said models to make them seem unique, even with the customization options developed). Even with this in mind, they are still different characters with different concepts in mind.
 
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Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
The biggest differences are hair, boob and butt sizes, other than that the models all look extremely similar. TN is going for a very specific and Japanese kind of beauty. They all have soft, oval faces, big almond-shaped eyes, small noses and small mouths. If they break too much out of that mold, to make the girls look unique, they would also break away from the Japanese bishoujo look.
 
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