Hayabusa: Tools of a Super Ninja

CyberEvil

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So this thread is going to be meant for discussing Hayabusa's best moves, when to use them, and why. I don't think 'Top 10' lists are worth a damn, so list however many you want. When we start to see moves showing up a lot, I'll update my list. Try to list the moves by notation unless it's a well known move like the Izuna Otoshi.

Ongyoin: Hayabusa's stance is significantly more useful in DoA5 as he has a larger stable of moves to choose from, all of which are useful in different circumstances. Accidental transitions can now be covered by a parry you initiate by canceling the stance with Hold, he has crushes, throws, a series of quick strikes with limbo stun capability, and long distance moves that are safe when blocked at range. Get used to his moves that auto-transition into this or that can transition. If you have breathing room and you aren't in Ongyoin, you're wasting opportunity.

8K: Ah, up kick. Still a ridiculously good move, if a little slower than before. Still launches on normal hit with full juggle capability on critical. Even on normal hit you are guaranteed his new air grab, which does decent damage and can wall splat opponents. Do not just throw it out raw if you can avoid it, though. If your opponent expects it they may be able to hold it on reaction, especially if they're fishing for it.

H+KKK: This sounds like a joke to series veterans, but it isn't. The three kicks are back but GOOD both in-string and on their own. The move is relatively fast, crushes some lows, and ends in a guard break. Just like any other move you shouldn't do it from too far away as you ca be low-grabbed if you whiff, but if they guard, you're going to break it and have time to recover. If it hits, it does decent damage and has the ability to wall splat, so try to break those old habits of avoiding this move!

3P+K: Hayabusa's excellent high crush (and sometimes mids, too) returns! This is a tracking crush that launches on critical, stuns on normal, and leaves you back-turned. From back-turn Hayabusa still has his normal punch strings for juggle purposes so don't let that seem like a bad thing. Just don't throw it out raw; getting back-grabbed sucks, even for a Super Ninja.

66K: After getting my skull crushed over and over against Rikuto, I finally started working this into my game, and lo and behold, the matches started going back and forth. The beautiful thing about this guard-breaking knee is the range, speed, and options after. You can use this move safely in nearly any situation, whether you're being pressured or on the offensive yourself. If the opponent blocks it, their guard is broken and they now have to respect every option you have from Ongyoin, including the incredibly good grab Hayabusa has from Ongyoin (H+P, 41236 H+P, 6987412 H+P), the PPP string that has limbo stun potential on the second hit and is chargeable on the final, the knee with critical launch properties that can go into air grab, and more. USE THIS MOVE.

I'll add more later.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
m
So this thread is going to be meant for discussing Hayabusa's best moves, when to use them, and why. I don't think 'Top 10' lists are worth a damn, so list however many you want. When we start to see moves showing up a lot, I'll update my list. Try to list the moves by notation unless it's a well known move like the Izuna Otoshi.

Ongyoin: Hayabusa's stance is significantly more useful in DoA5 as he has a larger stable of moves to choose from, all of which are useful in different circumstances. Accidental transitions can now be covered by a parry you initiate by canceling the stance with Hold, he has crushes, throws, a series of quick strikes with limbo stun capability, and long distance moves that are safe when blocked at range. Get used to his moves that auto-transition into this or that can transition. If you have breathing room and you aren't in Ongyoin, you're wasting opportunity.

8K: Ah, up kick. Still a ridiculously good move, if a little slower than before. Still launches on normal hit with full juggle capability on critical. Even on normal hit you are guaranteed his new air grab, which does decent damage and can wall splat opponents. Do not just throw it out raw if you can avoid it, though. If your opponent expects it they may be able to hold it on reaction, especially if they're fishing for it.

H+KKK: This sounds like a joke to series veterans, but it isn't. The three kicks are back but GOOD both in-string and on their own. The move is relatively fast, crushes some lows, and ends in a guard break. Just like any other move you shouldn't do it from too far away as you ca be low-grabbed if you whiff, but if they guard, you're going to break it and have time to recover. If it hits, it does decent damage and has the ability to wall splat, so try to break those old habits of avoiding this move!

3P+K: Hayabusa's excellent high crush (and sometimes mids, too) returns! This is a tracking crush that launches on critical, stuns on normal, and leaves you back-turned. From back-turn Hayabusa still has his normal punch strings for juggle purposes so don't let that seem like a bad thing. Just don't throw it out raw; getting back-grabbed sucks, even for a Super Ninja.

I'll add more later.
This is super awesome, Hayabusa is much stronger than before. Can't wait to test out his tools when I get my copy on tuesday! Super Ninja style :cool:
 

Darth Lotonic X

Active Member
Why didn't you mention that initially? It seems like a pretty important detail for someone that is used to them being all highs.
 

CyberEvil

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Because I'm at work and posting from my tablet, so posting the hit levels of moves that I'm assuming people will test out in training in about two days (for some) seemed like too much effort, basically. It was an oversight on my part but I'm hardly done with my initial post at this point. Just whetting peoples' appetite.

EDIT: Updated with a bunch of information on 66K, which is likely one of his best new moves and probably the most important move in his arsenal now.
 

CyberEvil

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His guard break game is phenomenal and can apply constant pressure from range. He's weak if he's rushed down, though. Not enough fast interrupts and his crushes are a bit too slow in most situations to regain the upper hand. He has a couple grabs that are on par, speed-wise, with normal grapplers so that's another great thing he has going for him, but he is most certainly NOT a grappler and should not be played as one. Punish with throws if you can but don't try to bait holds like you would with a real grappler.
 

Goro Hazuki

Active Member
His guard break game is phenomenal and can apply constant pressure from range. He's weak if he's rushed down, though. Not enough fast interrupts and his crushes are a bit too slow in most situations to regain the upper hand. He has a couple grabs that are on par, speed-wise, with normal grapplers so that's another great thing he has going for him, but he is most certainly NOT a grappler and should not be played as one. Punish with throws if you can but don't try to bait holds like you would with a real grappler.

Wouldn't :4::P+K: be good against over excited fighters rushing down on you?
 

CyberEvil

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Better to punish with 33P and score an air grab out of the deal. More damage.
 

avi

Member
F+kkk is still unsafe to low throw, :4::P::K: can be interrupted by jabs.
his :6::P: out of stance leaves him at +1 fallowing up with pp is great, the first hit is fast and the second one tracks and is -4 on block. depending at the range you can make it -2 at tip range.
:6::K::P: against teh wall is godlike leaving you at +14 :K: or:P: strings will stun leaving you with massive advantage =p.
:2::F+K: still amazing against teh wall allowing you to link jabs and if done correctly and the sweep hits the back of the players ankle your left at +16 so :8::K: links for a 2 hit combo =p
same goes :3::3::P::2::K: the sweep when your opponent is backed against the wall will allow you to link jabs for stuns =p
getting in
6p out of ninpo stance,
66k,
33p,
3 f+k
, 4pk (at the correct range),
214p
, are his best ways of getting in..
his best keep away moves are
7k
4k
2f+k
4F+k
2p+k
all for now
 

Jin Masters

Member
666p 16 frame mid, -2 on block, knockdown on hit
1p tracks, crushes highs, has low sweep follow up
Ongyoin 8k, teleport mid kick -3 on block
9k, creates a sit down stun on counter or in stun. Nothing Gaurunteed but must be SE to escape the stun. So basically free mind games. IZUNA anyone :)
Oh not for nothing shoho IZUNA string does great damage fyi
Pp4pk and 4pk on block leaves you at +9
Pp4pp and 4pp high ender but is -5 on block good for pressure and safety #smart
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
If the 9K & 4PK moves are still as useful as they were in the Alpha, I'd wager they deserve a spot there. But I know that a lot has changed, so by all means, ignore this suggestion if irrelevant.
 

MajesticBlue

Active Member
Ok, I got to sit down and test stuff. In my opinion he has some serious match up issues. In smaller stages he has to commit very, very hard. Since I can't post frame data there is really only so much I can say or do at this point.

I agree with most of what CyberEvil says. Ryu heavily rewards good reads. If he can get going he hits very hard. On paper it is pretty easy to get him started, in practice (depending on the matchup) it can be pretty hard.

66K is really good, If you can get them to block it. I find it to be a very high mid without much priority though. Even though the move is a guard break you are gonna play a total guessing game. Still, this might be his best move. Learn to love it. In theory I guess you can mix this up with qcbP.

QcbP, the only reason I can see using this move is when you know you are being baited for 3F+K or 66K. Be very carefull with it. You can freestep it..... If by a miracle of god (or good reading) you manage to get it off without being held or stepped you are left in a pretty good position. On Block get ready to 50-50 a little in your favor. On hit you get a free launcher. 3P+K, 33P etc.

33P4, this move is pretty important. It gives you a free ninpo mixup if you cancel into it. Throw in the sweep some times to add some fear frames. Launcher on counter hit.

3F+K, PP4PK , 4PK, throw em out whenever you can. Good things happen. If you get them to block do whatever beats what you think they will do obviously. If people catch on I'm sure you will figure out what to do. The problem is when you face somebody who can hold them on reaction (I find most of Ryu's stuff to be quite seeable)

3P+K, even though it is risky, this is a good launcher. One of his few options to get out of a frame trap. Since it crushes highs still. Has the folow up kick if you need it. If used correctly you should never need it though.

2F+K, gets under stuff, a good mixup tool. Use it if you see they are weak in the knees.

3PPP, if the training mode isn't lying if the second hit connects the third is guaranteed. It gives a wall splat. You can even use it as a wall combo. Very delayable, 3PPP wall splat into air grab is always fun.

8K, gotta respect the up kick. Though it has been nerfed, he will still need it. A great move to use when your opponent runs in. Free juggle on normal hit is a nice touch.

4P2P, no more stun on normal hit anymore, pretty bad on normal hit as a matter of fact. Still I feel you can use it more due to the fear of 4PK. Delay a little if you need to.

6P, another move you gotta learn to love. Falls under general poke category. Pretty much your dude, I need a mid move. Prepare to have it crushed however....it is all he has.

9K , though low crushes in general are not as reliable, still is usefull if you really need to low crush.

2P, 2K ,1P,PP 6P, learn em all. Use these when you need to try and tap out of something. Predict a free cancel or a move that leaves them at disadvantage.

Ninpo stuffs, pretty much all of it has a use or two. The knee (k) is great but very slow. Prepare to to use PP(P) quite a bit. Since it is a pretty fastish option. Second hit is a limbo stun on counter hit. You can follow up with bt 4K if you want. Not sure how useful that is however.

Power blow. Do it every chance you get. Free off of qcfT in stages with ceilings.

As far as throws go the only good ones are Izuna, the ninpo throw and his punish throws. 6T and 2T.
Remember when it comes to throws you have to add an input frame when it comes to punishing. so for a free 6 frame throw they need to be at -7.

*Moves I'm not too sure about*

6KP, I guess if you can use this abuse the hell out it? Most of the people I play hold it on reaction.

P+K, Should I use this? xD

4P+K, Still has uses I'm sure, haven't found it to be as usefull as in the past.

F+KKK, I could swear this can be punished with a standing throw.

Way more then 10 moves. This is just some info I thought I would gather for new Ryu players. With time I will edit this up and throw it into a guide. If anything is wrong please correct me. No need to spread misinformation. Just hope it makes sense.

When I get the time if I feel up to it I might make a ninpo flow chart. Showing who can beat what with whatever. Ninpo is a guessing game for the most part. What trap works on who? (Ljt style) Will they crush? Will they jab? We may never know till it is too late...

Once we all get this all figured out we can update the main thread and go into further detail. I expect many too long didn't reads :rolleyes:
 

CyberEvil

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The biggest problem Hayabusa faces is simply someone that isn't afraid of what he can do out of Ongyoin. If someone fearlessly jabs or attacks with another move that's fast enough, Hayabusa is screwed. You have to guess how an overly aggressive opponent will act. That's the exact reverse of what moving into that stance should do.

Say they are just jabbing you immediately after blocking a move that goes into Ongyoin. Yeah, you go to +/-0 in most cases but they're already attacking you. That leaves you with the option to parry, again putting you at neutral, albeit with the opponent in backturn (which may be to their advantage depending on character), or to crush. The only crush he has from Ongyoin is P+K into the Shoho Izuna string, though of course you can kick instead. 6K out of it also crushes but if their jab string continues to a mid strike fast enough they'll likely stuff you anyway.

Frustrating situation. I haven't yet figured out a good counter to people that do that and Hayabusa can be jabbed out of a large amount of his moves. Without sacrificing being safe he can't move fast enough to shut down an opponent. He's very strong but seems weak against the very type of character he used to be: a rush-down character. Some people might say that's what he still is, but I don't think he can be played that way without risks that aren't worth the damage potential anymore.

Just my opinion.
 

MajesticBlue

Active Member
I will be really honest...I think he is pretty bad. He hits very hard but damn, you gotta be on top of everything. Large chunks of my Doa 4 game revolved around speed and using matchup knowledge. Using low jabs to get people into neutral so I can out guess them. You just gotta know what everybodys fastest mid is and what speed there jab is. Ryu at neutral loses to damn near everybody in this game. Rig is a nightmare for him. Ayane might be able to beat all of his options with 2p after a 66K. The only thing that might beat it is 6P+K.

He may not even be tournament viable. Yeah, somebody will be able to do it but still. He turned into a crappy version of Lars with his high risk high reward playstyle.

This is exactly what I wanted to talk with you about. I had this in my mind for like, over half a year. All of his Ongyoin mixups are kinda not real mixups. I saw 4K used a lot. 4K on block has 2 options for Ryu.....Eat a counter blow..or high counter throw. I'm pretty sure at neutral he cant crush many mids. Much less a very fast mid while in Ongyoin . It feels as if nothing is ever in his favor. His 4PK also leaves him in crouching. So he has has to eat frames or be stuck doing while rising moves.

He does have another crush out of Ongyoin I think. He can do the 3P+K punch. 2P+K maybe? Unless it can go under mids...

Even though it may sound like a rant it isn't. I just find it very frustraiting, same as you. Glad I'm not the only one who sees this massive flaw. I can't wait to get some games in with ya. Maybe we can find something cool that we missed hahahahah.
 
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