Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Now I know the counter-argument to this already, and it's a valid one -- you remove holds in hitstun from DOA and it's no longer DOA.
I also understand the supporting arguments, that the problems DOA 4 introduced can be rectified with natural combos, guaranteed environmental damage, shorter active windows on holds and reduced damage on them in general.
In truth, yes, it does "help" to fix the problem, but I don't think it really does it completely. The fact is, most competitive people don't like being able to get held out of hitstun. At all. For any amount of damage. Ever. It fucks up the pace of a good fighter. There are even people who dislike MK9 because of simple combo breaking mechanics that cost meter. Lots of people think, if you mess up you should pay for it, period. If you wanted to counter, maybe you should have done it before the first attack landed.
And you know, they might just be right.
The more I keep playing other fighting games, the more I'm finding myself in agreement to this. I mean you have to plan so much in advance with the spacing, the environment and mind games, it just doesn't seem right that your opponent should be able to stop you after they've already screwed up. There's only so many ways to launch and no matter how hard you break up the hold system to make it more complex, its only ever going to come down to 2 or 3 options you have to guess between.
Even if you reduce the window for active frames on a hold, does it really fix the issue? If you're only stunned for so many frames there is only so long your opponent can free cancel and attack with his launcher of choice. That makes it pretty easy to gauge when its going to come out, regardless of which hit level you end up guessing on. Especially if its a deep-stun and bottlenecks when you are allowed to hold.
Are holds in hitstun something you actually enjoy? I'm not asking if its critical to remove them or not to make the game playable, I'm asking do you truly and honestly enjoy this feature of the game and want it as part of the gameplay?
Is DOA a unique enough fighter to stand on its own if you remove the ability to counter in hitstun? We know why holds make the game stand out, but thats mostly because they are so god damn infuriating to the point they get everyones attention.
Didn't anything else make you originally fall in love with the game? The crazy over-the-top multi-tiered stages, the characters/movelists, the environmental damage effects, the graphics, the physics engine and the way people fly back like 20 feet and manage to catch themselves when Ein punches them in the face? And for the shallow ones, the sex appeal?
Think long and hard about this. Just how important is this counter system in DOA to maintain its uniqueness among other fighters?
And is that counter system actually detrimental to the growth of the game, regardless of whether or not we can personally deal with it?
If you removed them from hitstun completely, you would probably have to shorten the damage threshold on stun before it breaks and lessen stuns overall. But isn't what we're advocating for anyway?
I know the (few) advocates for DOA 4 will strongly disagree with me on this because for some reason they actually enjoy torturing themselves under that system, but what do you the rest of you think?
Personally I don't want DOA to turn into Tekken or Soul Calibur. They have their own control system, movement and rules that make them unique. What I want is DOA, in all of its glorious over-the-top level smashing madness, but without the bullshit that makes you go "What the fuck, I just read everything right and my attack landed why am I being punished for it?" When the bullshit is gone only solidity and style remain. Is such a thing so undesirable to everyone else?
And yes, 3.1 had the same bullshit minus wall stuns. You could severely punish it and that made it much more playable, and if you were the right character in the right situation you could outright kill someone for it. It didn't really contribute anything though, it doesn't take much character or matchup knowledge to bait a hold and throw it. That's a wrist slapping reaction that can instantly end a round. That particular aspect didn't make it any deeper in my mind, it just made it tolerable and allowed you to actually enjoy the rest of the game for once.
I also understand the supporting arguments, that the problems DOA 4 introduced can be rectified with natural combos, guaranteed environmental damage, shorter active windows on holds and reduced damage on them in general.
In truth, yes, it does "help" to fix the problem, but I don't think it really does it completely. The fact is, most competitive people don't like being able to get held out of hitstun. At all. For any amount of damage. Ever. It fucks up the pace of a good fighter. There are even people who dislike MK9 because of simple combo breaking mechanics that cost meter. Lots of people think, if you mess up you should pay for it, period. If you wanted to counter, maybe you should have done it before the first attack landed.
And you know, they might just be right.
The more I keep playing other fighting games, the more I'm finding myself in agreement to this. I mean you have to plan so much in advance with the spacing, the environment and mind games, it just doesn't seem right that your opponent should be able to stop you after they've already screwed up. There's only so many ways to launch and no matter how hard you break up the hold system to make it more complex, its only ever going to come down to 2 or 3 options you have to guess between.
Even if you reduce the window for active frames on a hold, does it really fix the issue? If you're only stunned for so many frames there is only so long your opponent can free cancel and attack with his launcher of choice. That makes it pretty easy to gauge when its going to come out, regardless of which hit level you end up guessing on. Especially if its a deep-stun and bottlenecks when you are allowed to hold.
Are holds in hitstun something you actually enjoy? I'm not asking if its critical to remove them or not to make the game playable, I'm asking do you truly and honestly enjoy this feature of the game and want it as part of the gameplay?
Is DOA a unique enough fighter to stand on its own if you remove the ability to counter in hitstun? We know why holds make the game stand out, but thats mostly because they are so god damn infuriating to the point they get everyones attention.
Didn't anything else make you originally fall in love with the game? The crazy over-the-top multi-tiered stages, the characters/movelists, the environmental damage effects, the graphics, the physics engine and the way people fly back like 20 feet and manage to catch themselves when Ein punches them in the face? And for the shallow ones, the sex appeal?
Think long and hard about this. Just how important is this counter system in DOA to maintain its uniqueness among other fighters?
And is that counter system actually detrimental to the growth of the game, regardless of whether or not we can personally deal with it?
If you removed them from hitstun completely, you would probably have to shorten the damage threshold on stun before it breaks and lessen stuns overall. But isn't what we're advocating for anyway?
I know the (few) advocates for DOA 4 will strongly disagree with me on this because for some reason they actually enjoy torturing themselves under that system, but what do you the rest of you think?
Personally I don't want DOA to turn into Tekken or Soul Calibur. They have their own control system, movement and rules that make them unique. What I want is DOA, in all of its glorious over-the-top level smashing madness, but without the bullshit that makes you go "What the fuck, I just read everything right and my attack landed why am I being punished for it?" When the bullshit is gone only solidity and style remain. Is such a thing so undesirable to everyone else?
And yes, 3.1 had the same bullshit minus wall stuns. You could severely punish it and that made it much more playable, and if you were the right character in the right situation you could outright kill someone for it. It didn't really contribute anything though, it doesn't take much character or matchup knowledge to bait a hold and throw it. That's a wrist slapping reaction that can instantly end a round. That particular aspect didn't make it any deeper in my mind, it just made it tolerable and allowed you to actually enjoy the rest of the game for once.
