Balance Honoka 1.04 Balance Changes Discussion

iHajinShinobi

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I agree with Jyakotu, most of the time my combo ender is one or two 6k depending of height, 6k2k. You barely lose any damage compared to other combos and you're at the right distance for 1) 1p for extra damage 2) dash 1k for force tech 3) if I expect wake up kick, back dash, avoid kick and 66k for run mixup

A force tech situation wouldn't allow for a WUK in the first place, so you don't need to worry about expecting one.

You want your 2K from 6K2K to be timed well so that it forces the opponent off the ground if they do not tech up. Or if it whiffed, its because they teched and you're still left at advantage nonetheless.
 
A force tech situation wouldn't allow for a WUK in the first place, so you don't need to worry about expecting one.

You want your 2K from 6K2K to be timed well so that it forces the opponent off the ground if they do not tech up. Or if it whiffed, its because they teched and you're still left at advantage nonetheless.

What I mean is that sometimes I prefer to not force tech and play the run mixup instead, it has one of the few low stuns for Honoka that you can follow up with p.

Interesting about the 6k2k timing, I'll take that into account.
 

iHajinShinobi

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I'm aware of what you said, which is why I mentioned the 2K timing. Keeps advantage and you can still do everything else mentioned in your post.

(Remainder is a general post)

I'll start using this thread as a General Discussion thread for Honoka.

Since the recovery frames have lessened on Honoka's 6T on a back turned opponent, you can now influence an oki situation afterward.

If you use 6T on a back turned opponent, 3H+K is a free force tech for +19 if they do not tech. They do not get to use a WUK here at all. If they tech after 6T, 3H+K leaves you safe at -2 to -3 depending on character weight (hits if they press a button and they're put right back onto the ground for 2P oki). Once you read the opponent will start teching up in this situation, you can mix up your options (like 46P for example).

Also take note that if the opponent techs up after 6T from BT, Honoka is left at +13.
 

iHajinShinobi

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The timing for 6K2K comes 6K into another 6K, then the 2K. There is actually no way to make it force you off the ground via juggle (forgot to edit and specify).

However I'm cooking up something else to influence a hard knockdown after the usual BnB juggles. Stay tuned.
 

Hexelf

New Member
I think they messed up on Honoka's HnK 2T.

When I tried doing it as a HC in training mode, the damage info says it does 121 (!) damage, but if you look at the actual life bar, the damage is clearly less than half life.
I compared it to Alpha-152's tried and true 236236T, which does 120 damage on HC. It should be one HP less, but if you look at the life bar, the throw very clearly does significantly more than Honoka's.

So Alpha-152 does more damage even though her number is actually lower?
Am I just imagining things or could someone confirm?

(This is on EU PS3 btw, with the "1.04" LR patch installed.)
 

Tempest

Well-Known Member
I think they messed up on Honoka's HnK 2T.

When I tried doing it as a HC in training mode, the damage info says it does 121 (!) damage, but if you look at the actual life bar, the damage is clearly less than half life.
I compared it to Alpha-152's tried and true 236236T, which does 120 damage on HC. It should be one HP less, but if you look at the life bar, the throw very clearly does significantly more than Honoka's.

So Alpha-152 does more damage even though her number is actually lower?
Am I just imagining things or could someone confirm?

(This is on EU PS3 btw, with the "1.04" LR patch installed.)
Alpha's throw does 150 on high counter, Honoka's does 121. The reading is accurate.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
I think they messed up on Honoka's HnK 2T.

When I tried doing it as a HC in training mode, the damage info says it does 121 (!) damage, but if you look at the actual life bar, the damage is clearly less than half life.
I compared it to Alpha-152's tried and true 236236T, which does 120 damage on HC. It should be one HP less, but if you look at the life bar, the throw very clearly does significantly more than Honoka's.

So Alpha-152 does more damage even though her number is actually lower?
Am I just imagining things or could someone confirm?

(This is on EU PS3 btw, with the "1.04" LR patch installed.)
A life bar is 300 health points.
Alpha's 236236T does 149 damage on Hi-Counter.
Honoka Hissatsu 2T does 121 damage on Hi-Counter.

So you might notice that Alpha's throw just does 1 point less damage than half a life bar, whereas Honoka's throw is 28 points less damage. The difference is quite noticeable.
 

Hexelf

New Member
Ah yes, I see now. I read the data wrong.
The blast at the end DOES do a 120 for Alpha-152 on HC, but the part where she pulls you in does 29 on top of this. So the whole counts as combo damage despite being a single throw that is similar to Honoka's in that she basically just explodes your face.

Thanks for the help in clearing that up. The more you know.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Whoops, forgot to post about the knockdown oki.

Anyway, ending any of your juggles with 1P will force the opponent into a hard knockdown.

Example: CH 6P > 33P (launcher) > 6K > 1P

By ending juggles with 1P, you force an oki mix up. If the opponent techs up, you are at +17. If they do not tech, you can force them off the ground with 3H+K (you can use any move that'll ground hit) and be at +20.

1P provides a better knockdown than say, 6K2K knockdown (unless it gives more damage via electric/explosive floor) because it's easier to react to the opponent teching up and you will have better control in the situation. +17 from them teching up provides access to decent unholdables (8P 66P+K, 33K). And makes most of your guard breaks a great mix up. As well as anything else, +17 is a lot of advantage.
 
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Like for 236P. 46P, and 6PK on a basic level far reaching power blows. The problems is one of them is almost completely useless in comparison to the others. 6PK is weaker in most regards to the other moves. Its weaker and less safe compared to the other options. It also has the shortest reach and knockback.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Like for 236P. 46P, and 6PK on a basic level far reaching power blows. The problems is one of them is almost completely useless in comparison to the others. 6PK is weaker in most regards to the other moves. Its weaker and less safe compared to the other options. It also has the shortest reach and knockback.
6PK is rather useful. After her Dokuritsu-Ho P (SDS), you get a guaranteed 6P, so that forces them to guess between 6P free cancel (which can potentially lead into a throw mix-up), 6PP or 6PK. 6PK also wall splats which makes your opponent have to pay attention when they are near a wall. 6PK starts out with an i11 mid punch so that's not bad as well, especially since the range got buffed by like 20 cm or so in patch 1.04. If they block 6P, I suggest either going for 6PP, which is semi-safe, or delay 6PK to trick your opponents and catch them off-guard. Gives you a free counter-hit launch if they press a button.
 
You sure all I see from it on counter hit you get them to float. The only reasonable follow I could see is dashing into 236P. Also to provide some clarity I'm referring to the double palm thrust that she obtained from gen fu.
 
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