DOA5LR How to fight typical online Ayane players

[iHajinShinobi]

Whiff punishment is punishing moves that hit the air (hit nothing) that are poorly spaced/positioned. It can be done via strike or throw, depending on distance and how much recovery a move generally has.

In @Force_of_Nature example of 3H+K~44, he is implying that with good application of 3H+K~44, if the opponent tries to hit a button to challenge the spacing, a 4K can whiff punish the opponent's whiffed move.

4K (sit down stun) > 4P+K (launch) > Juggle as your example of whiff punishing with 4K.

 

[DoANoob]

Watching this thread.

 

[MiSS KEiSHH]

Whiff punishment is punishing moves that hit the air (hit nothing) that are poorly spaced/positioned. It can be done via strike or throw, depending on distance and how much recovery a move generally has.

In @Force_of_Nature example of 3H+K~44, he is implying that with good application of 3H+K~44, if the opponent tries to hit a button to challenge the spacing, a 4K can whiff punish the opponent's whiffed move.

4K (sit down stun) > 4P+K (launch) > Juggle as your example of whiff punishing with 4K.

Ahh okay. I kinda figured but i was having a hard time visualizing how it would be executed. Thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[DoANoob]

This comment is more offline than online. Recently, I've been playing offline with my cousin(he uses Ayane). After watching my replays, I seem to have figured out what attacks he use that throw me off a lot and sadly, they still do. I'll try to describe the moves as well as the button inputsin details. My descriptions might be wrong, bit I'll do my best.
?: Ayane turns around downward then rises upward to backhand slap you.
?: Ayane does a downward arched kick (there's a similar move where she's BT but does an upward arched kick, but that might be a different move).
?: Not sure if this is the right description, but it's a launcher where she has both hands out and strikes you like a windmill.
, or ?: Not sure which of these inputs are the one that describes this, but she turns around, her leg is straight up, then strikes it down. I guess that's an axe kick? I always think that's a mid whenever she does that.
So yea those moves seem to throw me off.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

This comment is more offline than online. Recently, I've been playing offline with my cousin(he uses Ayane). After watching my replays, I seem to have figured out what attacks he use that throw me off a lot and sadly, they still do. I'll try to describe the moves as well as the button inputsin details. My descriptions might be wrong, bit I'll do my best.
?: Ayane turns around downward then rises upward to backhand slap you.
?: Ayane does a downward arched kick (there's a similar move where she's BT but does an upward arched kick, but that might be a different move).
?: Not sure if this is the right description, but it's a launcher where she has both hands out and strikes you like a windmill.
, or ?: Not sure which of these inputs are the one that describes this, but she turns around, her leg is straight up, then strikes it down. I guess that's an axe kick? I always think that's a mid whenever she does that.
So yea those moves seem to throw me off.

For 4P, you'll need to know when the Ayane player uses it then block and punish accordingly. The move has a low and a high follow-up that are delayable so you can use a fast high crush move like a 2P to option select the situation and stuff both follow-ups. If you suspect the Ayane player will perform just 4P, you can strike punish the move on block with fast pokes.

3K is Ayane's thrusting mid kick with 3 potential follow-ups that are either high or ending in a low. I think you mean 9K? You really shouldn't be getting hit by this move often unless you're being careless or are using too many low attacks. 9K is a slow jumping mid kick that is -7 on block. You can attempt a neutral throw after blocking it. BT8K is a little trickier because it is only -5 on block and has a lot of hit priority, but it does leave Ayane BT'ed allowing you to apply a mix-up after the move gets blocked.

4P+K is another move that only hits you during neutral if you're being careless with your approach or spacing. It provides very good reward on CH, and is -8 on block with Ayane being left BT'ed. You can block and throw punish this move.

I don't know how you can be having trouble with 2K. This is an i19, 10 dmg, low kick that is -2 on NH. If you get hit by 2K on NH, just strike back with a quick poke immediately. This move is shit from neutral and shouldn't be getting used often, same with 9K. It does provide a decent stun on CH however...

It's seeming like it may be a problem with unfamiliarity with the properties of Ayane's moves throwing you off.

 

[DoANoob]

For 4P, you'll need to know when the Ayane player uses it then block and punish accordingly. The move has a low and a high follow-up that are delayable so you can use a fast high crush move like a 2P to option select the situation and stuff both follow-ups. If you suspect the Ayane player will perform just 4P, you can strike punish the move on block with fast pokes.

3K is Ayane's thrusting mid kick with 3 potential follow-ups that are either high or ending in a low. I think you mean 9K? You really shouldn't be getting hit by this move often unless you're being careless or are using too many low attacks. 9K is a slow jumping mid kick that is -7 on block. You can attempt a neutral throw after blocking it. BT8K is a little trickier because it is only -5 on block and has a lot of hit priority, but it does leave Ayane BT'ed allowing you to apply a mix-up after the move gets blocked.

4P+K is another move that only hits you during neutral if you're being careless with your approach or spacing. It provides very good reward on CH, and is -8 on block with Ayane being left BT'ed. You can block and throw punish this move.

I don't know how you can be having trouble with 2K. This is an i19, 10 dmg, low kick that is -2 on NH. If you get hit by 2K on NH, just strike back with a quick poke immediately. This move is shit from neutral and shouldn't be getting used often, same with 9K. It does provide a decent stun on CH however...

It's seeming like it may be a problem with unfamiliarity with the properties of Ayane's moves throwing you off.

I could show a recent reply and ask for a critique on it, or if you like, visit my YT, or Twitch channel and check the videos there.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I could show a recent reply and ask for a critique on it, or if you like, visit my YT, or Twitch channel and check the videos there.

Sure, that sounds good.

 

[DoANoob]

Also @Force_of_Nature my apologies, but I completely got one of the moves wrong. The description about the arched kick was actually 4k(had to go on YouTube and watch ayane's command training video), but you are definitely right about me being unfamiliar with her moves. Lol

 

[Tempest]

Also @Force_of_Nature my apologies, but I completely got one of the moves wrong. The description about the arched kick was actually 4k(had to go on YouTube and watch ayane's command training video), but you are definitely right about me being unfamiliar with her moves. Lol

During replays you can set it to display the moves that are being used. Useful if you aren't familiar with the character.

 

[DoANoob]

During replays you can set it to display the moves that are being used. Useful if you aren't familiar with the character.

I haven't really saved much of my replays lately. Most of them are archives on my Twitch channel so I edited spme stuff off the archives and download em to YouTube. Also, for some funny reason, my cousin hates me saving our battles now.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Also @Force_of_Nature my apologies, but I completely got one of the moves wrong. The description about the arched kick was actually 4k(had to go on YouTube and watch ayane's command training video), but you are definitely right about me being unfamiliar with her moves. Lol

Oh, you mean 4K & BT4K. 4K is a whiff punisher and a CH launcher. It should only be hitting you if you're whiffing something or are attacking from disadvantage (though it's generally not a go to move for punishing people who abare). It is unsafe on block at -12 and should be throw punished on reaction when blocked (you can try practicing an i10 throw against it, though i7 throws are fine). An Ayane player should not be able to run up and 4K you. If they are, you're reading the situation incorrectly during neutral.

As for BT4K, it is another move that shouldn't really be hitting during neutral. It does have good range for a NH launcher, but is a bit slow and unsafe on block, while leaving Ayane BT'ed. Punish it on reaction with a throw every time it is blocked. Be careful if an Ayane player is trying to use BT4K as a ranged whiff punisher or "poke" at range, though BT4H+K & BT6K are better BT'ed mid kicks that the player should be using thanks to them being safe on block.

Once you become familiar with Ayane, she shouldn't trip you up as much if you fight patiently. Momiji can fight Ayane just fine in most situations.