DOA5LR How would you feel if they added meter usage to DOA?

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I think he means that the game's difficulty depends on the player you're fighting. If you're fighting someone who always uses mid punches, panic holds every second in stun and always goes for critical bursts it's easy. If you're fighting someone who plays patiently, is random, and knows how to escape certain situations and set ups then it's more difficult, kind of like any game for that matter
 

Crazy_Chin_Guy

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Doesn't getting hit fill up your meter? Like everytime you take damage you fill up your meter for your PowerBlow/Launcher.
I mean meter usage as in making your moves more powerful would be a bit overkill.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I think he means that the game's difficulty depends on the player you're fighting. If you're fighting someone who always uses mid punches, panic holds every second in stun and always goes for critical bursts it's easy. If you're fighting someone who plays patiently, is random, and knows how to escape certain situations and set ups then it's more difficult, kind of like any game for that matter
Right.

So you can make the game "harder" by making the mechanics more convoluted and difficult to learn, but I cannot imagine why anyone would consider those good ideas for the mere sake of them.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
The game is as difficult as your opponent. I'm not sure what you mean by this.
See, Brute ... this is why I love you(No Homo) . :oops:

Why do I get the impression that you're all starting to get bored of DoA ? I mean don't get me wrong I also get bored with DoA sometimes but I've always thought it was near perfect.

I don't think I've ever Bitched about this before (Atleast not on FSD) but I hate Resource Based Mechanics in every single type of Game ever!!!. In my honest oppinion, I whole heartedly believe they just don't work. The most common reason I encounter whenever they tether one of your abilities in any game to a Meter, Guage or Bar is that it makes the game more Strategic somehow, I've never really gotten an in depth explanation on how that is. Some people explain it in a weird way like: "Well if you were allowed to do the Super Enhanced move All The Time then your character would be O.P. and the game would be broken so limiting the number of times you can use it makes it more strategic." On the surface this seems normal but upon closer examination what it sounds like they're are saying is: "The developers Accidentally made an Over Powered move by accident and its too far into the game's development to redesign it so they quickly scrambled up a quick fix dressed it up as some sort of improvement." I mean thats what I hear when people say that.... Because seriously, Why have something so Powerful that its obviously the Go to Tactic in every situation ?

I mean I know it seems like I'm just hating for no reason but I did try to really visualize a scenario where Chaining an ability to a resource was actually genuinely Strategic... I tried to imagine myself in Dark Souls up against a Boss and thinking about how i would "Manage my Stamina", and think "Okay I've got this much Stamina that will allow me to do X number of Attacks and Block/Roll X Number Of Times"... Obviously this is not a real strategy because all you need to do is only attack whatever number of times that will leave you with enough with enough Stamina to perform one Roll and you're good. If you're rocking a Heavy, Armored Shield Build then its worse since the Boss's attacks drain different amounts of your Stamina and you have no way of Anticipating which attack the Boss will do to retaliate, meaning you don't know how how much of your Stamina you should dedicate to your Offense... Basically its Random, Ofcourse thats the fun about Dark Souls, Risk vs Reward. Its a time honored game design methodology thats as actually even older than gaming itself, and I don't have anything against it or anyone who enjoys it.... But don't tell me that its Strategic or that it makes the gamer Deeper Mechanically somehow because really it doesn't. Ofcourse that not going to Stop people from guessing how much Stamina people will leave behind to block an Attack they thought was coming... Obviously if you guess right, it won't feel Random, it will feel like you pulled out some Jedi Mind Reading Precognitive Brain Hack that only you could do because you're so Smart... again, this is a an Enjoyable Experience, its perfectly valid. I'm not mad about the existence of this Design Methodology, I'm just mad when somebody tells me something Random is Strategic in the same way I would be angry if someone told me a Rock they picked up in the middle of the Street is a rare Precious Diamond. This is for Single player games.

In Multiplayer games Resources Based Mechanics fair much better since your Decisions are influenced by a thinking opponent who chooses which Super Ability to use based on Extrapolation. But even then I its flawed in certain cases, again, using MKX I tried to "Strategise" when I would use a Breaker.... Say I'm in a scenario, my Opponent Armors through my mixup Attempt (Because he noticed I'm not using my multi hitting moves often enough) and is about unleash one massive damaging juggle on me... So now I have to think "Do you I use my breaker now ?" and thats when things fall apart because if the answer is if "No" then when do I use it ? Even in fights where both players are only mildly evenly matched then theres going to be a fair bit of Back and forth, both players will eventually get through each others guard and do damage atleast once or twice... so If you get caught by a mix up and don't decide to use you're Breaker now then you're thinking about the next time the Opponent Successfully Mixes you Up and, again, is about to deal massive Damage... So what makes those two Scenarios different ? Why save yourself from the Possibility taking damage later when you can just do guarantee the safety of your Health Bar right now ? Obviously there are edge case where you don't want to use a Breaker because its the first round and you only have one pixel left and you're opponent has their whole health bar, but the decision to not use a breaker then is Not Strategic because its so Damn Obvious... its like Choosing between Getting kicked in the Crotch or Getting a foot rub from a Hot Person. the Same applies if its the Last round, since theres no Rounds left then why wouldn't you use the one thing that could save you from almost certain Death ? Is there somewhere in between those two extremes (That occur frequently I might add) where an honest, thoughtful Decision to use the breaker might make the game more Strategic ? If there is then I need to know otherwise I don't think I can play any Fighting Game other than Dead Or Alive. But then again moves that you can only do once Like Breakers or X Factors are abit of an Easy Whipping Boy... EX/Enhanced moves fair a bit better since they can be used multiple times spread out throughout every round in a Match, but in scenarios where you only Have One Bar only left then its almost just as bad as the One Use Only Abilities.

Basically the entire Flaw in Resources Management is a lack of Foresight and the Possibility of Completely Running out of the Resource, because if it runs out then worst case scenario means You are utterly Fucked and theres nothing you can do about it, it makes any game that uses it feel rigged Somehow.

So yeah... thats just about it... :(
 
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DedUp

Active Member
I'm not a fan of meter 3D games and I absolutely hated it in SCV. I don't mind it in 2D games though since it has such a long history there. I feel that meter isn't needed in 3D games because they usually have larger movelists and other more interesting mechanics to explore.
 

XxNoriakixX

Well-Known Member
Please...just nope. Power blows are already enough if this would count as 2D mechanics. No 2D bs in 3D fighting games please. Tekken and Soul Calibur already sold themselves out
 
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UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I mean hell this game already has supers and a revenge gauge, how would you feel if they just went all out and added a super meter that could be used in various ways? Like to enhance certain moves to make them safer and do more damage, or give defenders the ability to pushblock, would you want that in a DOA game? or do you prefer more bare bones DOA?
Did Shimbori read this thread?
 

Camel with 2 thumbs

Well-Known Member
well, i guess since this is active again, sorta, imma add 2 more cents, now that meter is actually a thing there's no real point in speculating about it, but i do hope for one thing, that you only gain enough meter the use mechanics once or twice a match. like the average meter gain in a match will allow you to use 2 break holds or 1 break blow, i will tottaly be fine with that. but if we end up in a situation where the meter is gained so quick that you do 6 break holds or 3 break blows per match, then that will be stupid. but i trust that TN will balance all that out b4 the game gets released so all i can do is wait
 
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