DOA5LR "I'll Try My Best!"Naotora Ii Gameplay Discussion

[KasumiLover]

Does it have to be the second hit animation of the 6K string? Going all the way from full screen with 6K seems unintuitive to me.

Yeah, that's the only way to make it hit the opponent, plus we unfortunately can't do the final hits of 6KKK8K and 6KKKKP solo, and the 6H+K wouldn't work since it needs that jumping 6KKKK to evade the low kick beforehand XD the 6KKK acts as the chaser so you can successfully land a no "timing" jumping follow up of your choice. 6KKK8K for a sit down stun and a set up, 6KKKKP for a free launch and guaranteed follow ups, or 6KKKKK as shown so you can get in their face with another set up too. The 6K4K won't work because of the short distance and iffy timing, 6KK4K leaves her in standing status and will get you hit, and 6KKK4K leaves her standing and is way to slow. xD

What did you think of the BT 2K versus a mid WU kick? I thought that was pretty neat!

 

[Nikotsumi]

The BT 2K after 9KK is very interesting, I'm definitely gonna try using it, it's kinda an alternative to the BT backdash when ending a combo with KK6KK.
Regarding that 6K string vs a wake up kicks, what happens if the opponent decides to time differently the low WU kick or does a mid WU kick instead? For this last case, I assume Naotora would get HiC hit. I'm gonna test it more myself when I get on DOA. It seems a lot risky, still good to know though.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Guys, remember that CPU wake up kick is different from player wake up kicks. They can enable a WUK option the moment they touch the floor after invulnerability. Players can't.

Great video, but just giving heads up.

 

[KasumiLover]

The BT 2K after 9KK is very interesting, I'm definitely gonna try using it, it's kinda an alternative to the BT backdash when ending a combo with KK6KK.
Regarding that 6K string vs a wake up kicks, what happens if the opponent decides to time differently the low WU kick or does a mid WU kick instead? For this last case, I assume Naotora would get HiC hit. I'm gonna test it more myself when I get on DOA. It seems a lot risky, still good to know though.

That's part of the risk, if the opponent doesn't perform a low WU and instead a mid, you'll get hit, and if they manipulate the low WU kick you'll have to quickly delay your 6K kicks so you can "milk" the jumping status and still hit them with out missing a beat. It's definitely risky but imo the worst that can happen is you get hit or floored by a WU kick. Also PP2K2K can even counter hit a mid WU kick if timed correctly buts it's hard to do...I tried to replicate it for the video but I couldn't do it again >.> Also the BT 2K vs a mid WU kick isn't exclusive to her, Kasumi can do it too! :-D Some other may be able to do it as well

Guys, remember that CPU wake up kick is different from player wake up kicks. They can enable a WUK option the moment they touch the floor after invulnerability. Players can't.

Great video, but just giving heads up.

Thank you for reminding me! I'll self record a low WU kick attempt and proof test it.

EDIT: It works!☆

 

[The Spine]

Okay, so after hearing the commentators talking about GBs and how insane they are for Naotora, I decided to look at all of them. I'm going to list each one, their frame advantage, and what you can do from that distance to take advantage of said frame advantage.

9KK:
It's +8 and you can do all of these from BT stance: 4K, 4P, 2K, and 2P. Note the opponent can contest the 5K and win since you have to turn around first.

5K string:
This can be in the middle of it or all the way through 5K, either way it's +4. You can pretty much do anything you want except 5K from this distance.

6H+KKK:
+2, anything will land at this distance.

4KK:
-2, nothing you can do here.

Jump 2K:
+3, anything will land at this distance

Ii stance K:
-12, all you can do is eat damage for free.

Ii stance 2K:
+2, everything but 5K will connect.

It's a simple list (somebody may have done this already, in which case my bad), but I feel it's important to have a reference somewhere and to know what you can do. Let me know if I missed something.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I can't believe that Naotora is left at -5 for landing the spinning drill on NH/CH/HiC without the launcher. You might as well just launch them right after from the string it has.

 

[The Spine]

I can't believe that Naotora is left at -5 for landing the spinning drill on NH/CH/HiC without the launcher. You might as well just launch them right after from the string it has.

Yeah, it can be held too and the only way to confirm into the K6KK is I think on CH and HiC. Possibly only HiC, I'm not sure right now. Basically it's just a gimmick that will really only work once if at all.

 

[KasumiLover]

I can't believe that Naotora is left at -5 for landing the spinning drill on NH/CH/HiC without the launcher. You might as well just launch them right after from the string it has.

It's stagger escapable tho lol, she'll be left at --11 if the opponent is brave enough to SE instead of tryna hold out.

236K is basically just a panic move where if you have the balls, you can throw it out to see how you opponent reacts. They panic hold you throw, they think you won't finish which is rare then finish it etc. It's best used imo in these ways:

☆Against a BT Ayane, the 236K causes a limbo stun on her and the second hit will be guaranteed. Perfect for nailing a trolling ayane who thinks switching BT and facing forward will trip you up.


☆It's great against any of her jumping moves since it'll literally just blast them back if it hits.


☆A good way to shut down the 9P and 4P+K moves and keep Nyo in her place.

☆Also a decent vs. WU kick move if your opponent seems to WU kick anywhere at any distance, it'll be unholdable if you do it just after their kick and you'll be able to bait for an easy HC throw.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I mean like here's the thing, you don't even HAVE to stagger out since she's already at light negative and there is a certain amount of frames to turn back around just to block lol. Though if you do stagger out you'd get a free throw or a BT setup. In which case, if Gen Fu was to stagger out of that he'd get the back turned crunch limbo from 3P+K into a guaranteed launch. Like that's too much ewww, my poor soul would be wounded.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Okay, so after hearing the commentators talking about GBs and how insane they are for Naotora, I decided to look at all of them. I'm going to list each one, their frame advantage, and what you can do from that distance to take advantage of said frame advantage.

9KK:
It's +8 and you can do all of these from BT stance: 4K, 4P, 2K, and 2P. Note the opponent can contest the 5K and win since you have to turn around first.

5K string:
This can be in the middle of it or all the way through 5K, either way it's +4. You can pretty much do anything you want except 5K from this distance.

6H+KKK:
+2, anything will land at this distance.

4KK:
-2, nothing you can do here.

Jump 2K:
+3, anything will land at this distance

Ii stance K:
-12, all you can do is eat damage for free.

Ii stance 2K:
+2, everything but 5K will connect.

It's a simple list (somebody may have done this already, in which case my bad), but I feel it's important to have a reference somewhere and to know what you can do. Let me know if I missed something.

You missed a few ones

6KK4K / -2, only 6P will connect (not sure)

6KKK8K/ +4, everything will connect.

Running P+K / Ii Family Creed P+K, can't blame you if you left this one out, it's definitely not a good move, better forget it xD
-33 on block and leaves her BT = every character in the roster can get a free BT combo from blocking it. Even Naotora herself could get a free P+K into 6KKK6K.

As for 236K / running K, I usually use it when I'm sure I'm gonna take the round if it hits, if it's blocked or the opponent doesn't hold I just go for the follow up. I'd rather risk getting held since there's not much to lose. On the other hand, it's really a good move against Ayanes who love to 7P

 

[KasumiLover]

Yeah, running P+K isn't any good at all xD it can be either held with mid P or Mid K and the recovery is real bad -_- It's only good for dealing with other zoners to be honest since it's 15i and mad props for it being the fastest flying butt attack in the game. Kind of wish it was a FT since you'd get some good stuff from 4H+K>236K~K>Run....P+K....wait the recovery probably wouldn't allow that xD

 

[The Spine]

You missed a few ones

6KK4K / -2, only 6P will connect (not sure)

6KKK8K/ +4, everything will connect.

Running P+K / Ii Family Creed P+K, can't blame you if you left this one out, it's definitely not a good move, better forget it xD
-33 on block and leaves her BT = every character in the roster can get a free BT combo from blocking it. Even Naotora herself could get a free P+K into 6KKK6K.

As for 236K / running K, I usually use it when I'm sure I'm gonna take the round if it hits, if it's blocked or the opponent doesn't hold I just go for the follow up. I'd rather risk getting held since there's not much to lose. On the other hand, it's really a good move against Ayanes who love to 7P

Yeah I meant to leave the second one out because it's the same thing as jump 2K, but hidden in a string as you know. Completely forgot about the other two so thank you. I wouldn't try to hit a button after 6KK4K, the opponent will just hit you out of it if they're smart.

Also, as far as drill kick goes, you can confirm from NH to HiC up to lightweight. When it gets to midweight you just drop it. So that's fun.

 

[KasumiLover]

OK I've been looking around and there should be no reason that nao's 3P is -11 on hit and on block. Hayate has a 15i 3P lift stun with follow ups but that's -4 on block and on hit...are you kidding me??

 

[The Spine]

There should be no reason for a lot of things that Naotora has. However, as Naotora mains/subs, that's one of the many Ls that we have to hold for free.

 

[The Spine]

I found the universal PL combo for ceilings that works with all weights and it's guaranteed. It's not the most damage you can do on all weights, but it's the one with the least amount of work really.
PL > 6K4K > K6KK
It's almost like this is what Naotora does all the time. Anyway, this does 108 by itself. Ii stance PL forever though. #DeleteNaotora

 

[Nikotsumi]

OK I've been looking around and there should be no reason that nao's 3P is -11 on hit and on block. Hayate has a 15i 3P lift stun with follow ups but that's -4 on block and on hit...are you kidding me??

And her 6P is -14 on NH and -12 on block. It's funny how she's less at disadvantage if blocked, though at least it has a follow up xD

I found the universal PL combo for ceilings that works with all weights and it's guaranteed. It's not the most damage you can do on all weights, but it's the one with the least amount of work really.
PL > 6K4K > K6KK
It's almost like this is what Naotora does all the time. Anyway, this does 108 by itself. Ii stance PL forever though. #DeleteNaotora

That's not really guaranteed though. (6K)4K can be held, though yeah, I don't see someone holding it normally, unless high holds are being mashed like crazy, especially in that case.
6K4K is in fact a really good mid to high launch and I've never seen someone holding it, I always take it as a guaranteed launch since a person has to have really good reactions to shut it down, not to mention that there's the mid K follow up that everyone expects.

Also, since I always end up doing Ii Family Creed K after a PL, even on Alpha, I decided to look up what she can do on her, and the most damaging ones I found are :
PL > SS > 8K > 6K4K > KKKKKKKK / PL > IFC K (against a wall)
LOL, even on Alpha IFC K is the best option against a wall, it does 135 damage, while PL > SS > 8K > 6K4K > KK6K does 126. II-KE KAKUN! too good.
Ceilings : PL > IFC P > KKKKKKKK / PL > IFC P > 6K4K > 6K4KK (against a wall)

 

[KasumiLover]

I like her PL even when it's not activated because it makes a good mid hold bait since the charge animation will make people react like "Fuck! She's about to PB me...no problem!" and then they throw out a mid people punch hold XD

I feel as if the frames of these attacks should be changed imo based on other characters movesets I've looked through:
☆6P is a static string and you can't mix up until after the 4K so because it's 14i and doesn't look like it'd visually be unsafe, I'd make it -5 on block.

☆3P should be -4 in block and hit...-7 if you wanna be a bit less venomous. Also make PK -4 or -5 on distance, unless a P6P or P3K is added I see no harm since she can't mix up till after P.

☆6KK and 6KKKK should be safe or -5 to -6 since that's linear and the kicks are slow 26i XD.

 

[The Spine]

And her 6P is -14 on NH and -12 on block. It's funny how she's less at disadvantage if blocked, though at least it has a follow up xD

That's not really guaranteed though. (6K)4K can be held, though yeah, I don't see someone holding it normally, unless high holds are being mashed like crazy, especially in that case.
6K4K is in fact a really good mid to high launch and I've never seen someone holding it, I always take it as a guaranteed launch since a person has to have really good reactions to shut it down, not to mention that there's the mid K follow up that everyone expects.

Also, since I always end up doing Ii Family Creed K after a PL, even on Alpha, I decided to look up what she can do on her, and the most damaging ones I found are :
PL > SS > 8K > 6K4K > KKKKKKKK / PL > IFC K (against a wall)
LOL, even on Alpha IFC K is the best option against a wall, it does 135 damage, while PL > SS > 8K > 6K4K > KK6K does 126. II-KE KAKUN! too good.
Ceilings : PL > IFC P > KKKKKKKK / PL > IFC P > 6K4K > 6K4KK (against a wall)

Yeah, I'm dumb, but they do have to mash it out to get the hold after that. Personally, as long as it's more damage than a PB I'm cool with it.

I like her PL even when it's not activated because it makes a good mid hold bait since the charge animation will make people react like "Fuck! She's about to PB me...no problem!" and then they throw out a mid people punch hold XD

I feel as if the frames of these attacks should be changed imo based on other characters movesets I've looked through:
☆6P is a static string and you can't mix up until after the 4K so because it's 14i and doesn't look like it'd visually be unsafe, I'd make it -5 on block.

☆3P should be -4 in block and hit...-7 if you wanna be a bit less venomous. Also make PK -4 or -5 on distance, unless a P6P or P3K is added I see no harm since she can't mix up till after P.

☆6KK and 6KKKK should be safe or -5 to -6 since that's linear and the kicks are slow 26i XD.

3P should just cause a stun, I don't mind it being -11 on block, but because there's no reward on NH the move is nearly useless. Eg, why throw 3P out in stun when you have 6P? Also, 6K shouldn't be safe in any aspect. It's one of her best whiff punishers and she should be punished if she misses the opportunity. It should track at the very least, but it makes sense how it is given how string that move is.

 

[KasumiLover]

Yeah, I'm dumb, but they do have to mash it out to get the hold after that. Personally, as long as it's more damage than a PB I'm cool with it.


3P should just cause a stun, I don't mind it being -11 on block, but because there's no reward on NH the move is nearly useless. Eg, why throw 3P out in stun when you have 6P? Also, 6K shouldn't be safe in any aspect. It's one of her best whiff punishers and she should be punished if she misses the opportunity. It should track at the very least, but it makes sense how it is given how string that move is.

I personally like 3P since there's a sort of delay before it hits and it provides a lift stun and it gives a decent launch if done twice so you can do K6KK or KK6KK. 8P I like because it's safe and if done twice with no SE it bounds giving you a 236K~K or something else to that degree.

Speaking of her 236K~K, yall notice that her IFC~H+K is the same as the second hit of 236K~K? I like the guard break and Sakura cherry effects and feel like the final hit of the 236KK string should result in that GB, the string can't be delayed and it's hopeless if it's blocked, plus it's two mid kicks which anyone can easily stop as well as it not doing much damage anyway so it wouldn't be at all OP.

 

[The Spine]

I personally like 3P since there's a sort of delay before it hits and it provides a lift stun and it gives a decent launch if done twice so you can do K6KK or KK6KK. 8P I like because it's safe and if done twice with no SE it bounds giving you a 236K~K or something else to that degree.

Speaking of her 236K~K, yall notice that her IFC~H+K is the same as the second hit of 236K~K? I like the guard break and Sakura cherry effects and feel like the final hit of the 236KK string should result in that GB, the string can't be delayed and it's hopeless if it's blocked, plus it's two mid kicks which anyone can easily stop as well as it not doing much damage anyway so it wouldn't be at all OP.

There's not really a "delay" to it as it's just slower. The hold timing doesn't change either. I don't know, relying on two of the same strikes in a row to make use out of them seems odd to me. I can understand the bound at least.

It was probably the intention to make 236KK a GB, but it's Naotora so it is what it is. It's negative too, which is lovely.