Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
Kokoro’s Anti-Christie Build
(for casual match)
(Version 0.2, last update 28 February 2014)
Hi everyone, I’m relatively new here as DOA5 is my first. Kokoro is my favorite due to my first impression with her. I would like to participate in utilizing available tools to increase survivability against her arguably worst match up. Probably benefit casual match than competitive one.
Christie, as we know that she is strong due to her speed, delayed/cancelled string, crush and Jakeiho. Kokoro will have tough time against Christie according to game structure. I would like to create this Thread in the attempt to open the floor in discussion to increase Kokoro’s survival chance against Christie.
Please feel free to discuss agree/disagree on technical/tactic as you see fit. In addition, if some tech or strategy that being referred to is too difficult to understand on paper, some video either from training mode or real match are all considered valuable.
I would like to start with what I have found as follow.
1. Christie’s move:
Since it is not possible to anti all Christie’s effective tools. The goal is to limit Christie’s option if not shut her down. Let’s review some of her dangerous tools before talking about Anti-Christie.
PPPP(P or 2P) : The 3rd and 4th P are Mid Punch. 2P give +10 advantage to Christie. The 4th hit cause critical stun which give Christie the advantage of 20+, while PP and PPP are considered less threat, let’s ignore PP and PPP at this stage.
6PP(PP) : Mid punch that critical stun on counter hit and considered most dangerous as it fast and give Christie the advantage of 20+. 6PP is probably the most dangerous and difficult to counter as we Kokoro don’t know if Christie will continue her string or cancel into new strike.
1H+KP : Christie’s 1H+KP which give -7 on guard and make Christie's follow up like 6P unable to be countered.
Throw : When Kokoro is freezing due to Christie’s pressure.
Jakeiho (JAK): Some said JAK is what make Christie superior than Kokoro. How could we call Anti-Christie build when we don’t have anything to stop JAK? No, I don’t have any strategy to counter JAK yet except turtling or running away. [please feel free to add your discovery].
2. Incorporate any of following strategy during the match whenever you see fit by blending it into your Kokoro’s routine moves.
Strategy 1 : Built-in Mid punch Hold.
(Warning : Suitable when Christie show the sign of being aggressive. Do not use this strategy when Christie show awareness and not too aggressive.)
Kokoro’s most suitable move for built-in is 6P, 6P6P, 3KP, 3KK (6PPP is less effective than 6P6P or 3KP,3KK). Now, the input sequence is 6P6P4H4H or 3KP4H4H. If Kokoro’s strike connect, you can continue stun without seeing your hold animation.
Let’s practice it in the training mode, choose Christie as you, Kokoro as AI. Set record 6P6P4H4H and replay. Please note that the 4H4H need to be fast and finished before 6P6P animation ended. Now you as Christie try PPPP, 6PP, 6PPP. You will see that when Christie win the frame your Christie got held by Kokoro almost immediately. And when Christie lost the frame and got hit by Kokoro, Kokoro can continue her stun without showing her hold animation.
As long as Christie do not show the sign to punish the unsafe 6P6P with Throw. Kokoro can ignore her disadvantage frame on block and continue her built-in strike until Christie show her guard or show successful hold against Kokoro’s mid punch or hesitation to use her mid punch by trying using other move like kick (don’t fear her low, I will talk about it later).
When the built-in successfully landed, the aggressive Christie’s fastest game is like 50% less dangerous (still dangerous but less than when strategy not applied). Now it is most likely that Christie will shorter her strike as single strike 6P or choosing to use kick and low instead of mid punch. Now, if you don’t fear Christie’s tracking move, you can introduce some side step to her seeing if it work.
Since Kokoro’s 6P6P, 3KP are unsafe. The sign to stop using Strategy 1 is when Christie begin to guard and punish you with throw or when Christie bait your hold with single strike (e.g. 6P). When Christie is no longer being too aggressive, the gap between Kokoro and Christie in term of speed is shortened. (how about JAK??).
Although you can perform Built-in High-Hold in the similar way to counter other Christie’s tools like 6KK, 4KK which end high. I think it is too complicate to have so many Anti-Choices, however, if someone has practice this beyond me please do not forget to share what you found.
Actually you can do built-in with any match, if you found what is effective against what, sharing it here would be appreciated. In my opinion, built-in against other cast other than Christie seems unnecessary to me because most of them are generally not as aggressive as Christie. (Kasumi, Alpha??)
Let's see how to make normal Christie to hesitate to use her mid punch string.
Strategy 2 : Turtling
Combine this with strategy 1 and your Kokoro’s routine tactics. And skip strategy 1 when you already know that Christies is not being too aggressive.
Although it is not a good news when Christie choose to use shorter string by canceling it, in fact, by free canceling her string making her even more difficult to counter as it is risky when Kokoro misread and press button.
Even when Kokoro keep guarding it is also risky Christie’s throw or low attack like (PPPP2P) or Christie’s 1H+KP which give advantage to Christie +7 (or more) on guard and make Christie's follow up like 6P unable to be countered.
Since the Christie’s free cancel string create small margin of frame that allow some distance for Kokoro’s free backstep (7). The valuable of this distance is making Kokoro’s 7P become more effective hence increase chance to escape from Christie’s pressure prison. See video for demonstration, in the Example [2] min 2:00, Kokoro’s 7P is intended pulled out. It is direct counter to Christie strike even though Kokoro’s 7P is much slower. You can also test it in the training mode, it will give the same result. There is very little chance that Christie’s player will aware of the range (mostly not).
However, you cannot use this strategy if the wall is behind you.
3. After Kokoro success with either Strategy 1 or Strategy 2 or both and if that Christie’s player is not far superior than you Kokoro’s player. Now there is already impact on that Christie’s player to become slower or more defensive. At this point, use all Kokoro offensive tools to keep pressure and open Christie up. The gap between these two casts is now lessened and the rest is depend on you. (While I still don’t have answer for you about JAK).
When you fight the same Christie’s player long enough, she will learn to counter you (I mean countering Kokoro’s Anti-Christie strategy). And this is not a bad news. Anti-Christie strategy exist because of Christie’s aggressively offensive game, when Christie’s player decide to become slower or more defensive, Kokoro will have higher chance to pull out whatever she have.
4. The strategy involve some guessing and not guaranteed. Indeed, however, it is the risk that worth taking or suffer the hopelessly stun or being freezing.
5. For the situation Christie’s player feel annoy on our defensive style and choose to keep distance letting Kokoro to be the one to approach. I will not discuss here as we can use regular Kokoro’s tools which should already been discussed in other threads.
I have no chance to offline with anyone. As the personal experience is limited, here come to what you guys could fill up what has been overlooked. I will keep update this thread as soon as useful information provided.
This is the very first version of the build, I need your feed back to improve. Although the topic said “Anti-Christie”, in fact, the whole objective is to tone down the momentum of Christie’s aggressively offensive game. Hence, decrease the gap between those two during regular match.
Video example:
Example [1] :
Example [2] :
Example [3] :
(for casual match)
(Version 0.2, last update 28 February 2014)
Hi everyone, I’m relatively new here as DOA5 is my first. Kokoro is my favorite due to my first impression with her. I would like to participate in utilizing available tools to increase survivability against her arguably worst match up. Probably benefit casual match than competitive one.
Christie, as we know that she is strong due to her speed, delayed/cancelled string, crush and Jakeiho. Kokoro will have tough time against Christie according to game structure. I would like to create this Thread in the attempt to open the floor in discussion to increase Kokoro’s survival chance against Christie.
Please feel free to discuss agree/disagree on technical/tactic as you see fit. In addition, if some tech or strategy that being referred to is too difficult to understand on paper, some video either from training mode or real match are all considered valuable.
I would like to start with what I have found as follow.
1. Christie’s move:
Since it is not possible to anti all Christie’s effective tools. The goal is to limit Christie’s option if not shut her down. Let’s review some of her dangerous tools before talking about Anti-Christie.
PPPP(P or 2P) : The 3rd and 4th P are Mid Punch. 2P give +10 advantage to Christie. The 4th hit cause critical stun which give Christie the advantage of 20+, while PP and PPP are considered less threat, let’s ignore PP and PPP at this stage.
6PP(PP) : Mid punch that critical stun on counter hit and considered most dangerous as it fast and give Christie the advantage of 20+. 6PP is probably the most dangerous and difficult to counter as we Kokoro don’t know if Christie will continue her string or cancel into new strike.
1H+KP : Christie’s 1H+KP which give -7 on guard and make Christie's follow up like 6P unable to be countered.
Throw : When Kokoro is freezing due to Christie’s pressure.
Jakeiho (JAK): Some said JAK is what make Christie superior than Kokoro. How could we call Anti-Christie build when we don’t have anything to stop JAK? No, I don’t have any strategy to counter JAK yet except turtling or running away. [please feel free to add your discovery].
2. Incorporate any of following strategy during the match whenever you see fit by blending it into your Kokoro’s routine moves.
Strategy 1 : Built-in Mid punch Hold.
(Warning : Suitable when Christie show the sign of being aggressive. Do not use this strategy when Christie show awareness and not too aggressive.)
Kokoro’s most suitable move for built-in is 6P, 6P6P, 3KP, 3KK (6PPP is less effective than 6P6P or 3KP,3KK). Now, the input sequence is 6P6P4H4H or 3KP4H4H. If Kokoro’s strike connect, you can continue stun without seeing your hold animation.
Let’s practice it in the training mode, choose Christie as you, Kokoro as AI. Set record 6P6P4H4H and replay. Please note that the 4H4H need to be fast and finished before 6P6P animation ended. Now you as Christie try PPPP, 6PP, 6PPP. You will see that when Christie win the frame your Christie got held by Kokoro almost immediately. And when Christie lost the frame and got hit by Kokoro, Kokoro can continue her stun without showing her hold animation.
As long as Christie do not show the sign to punish the unsafe 6P6P with Throw. Kokoro can ignore her disadvantage frame on block and continue her built-in strike until Christie show her guard or show successful hold against Kokoro’s mid punch or hesitation to use her mid punch by trying using other move like kick (don’t fear her low, I will talk about it later).
When the built-in successfully landed, the aggressive Christie’s fastest game is like 50% less dangerous (still dangerous but less than when strategy not applied). Now it is most likely that Christie will shorter her strike as single strike 6P or choosing to use kick and low instead of mid punch. Now, if you don’t fear Christie’s tracking move, you can introduce some side step to her seeing if it work.
Since Kokoro’s 6P6P, 3KP are unsafe. The sign to stop using Strategy 1 is when Christie begin to guard and punish you with throw or when Christie bait your hold with single strike (e.g. 6P). When Christie is no longer being too aggressive, the gap between Kokoro and Christie in term of speed is shortened. (how about JAK??).
Although you can perform Built-in High-Hold in the similar way to counter other Christie’s tools like 6KK, 4KK which end high. I think it is too complicate to have so many Anti-Choices, however, if someone has practice this beyond me please do not forget to share what you found.
Actually you can do built-in with any match, if you found what is effective against what, sharing it here would be appreciated. In my opinion, built-in against other cast other than Christie seems unnecessary to me because most of them are generally not as aggressive as Christie. (Kasumi, Alpha??)
Let's see how to make normal Christie to hesitate to use her mid punch string.
Strategy 2 : Turtling
Combine this with strategy 1 and your Kokoro’s routine tactics. And skip strategy 1 when you already know that Christies is not being too aggressive.
Although it is not a good news when Christie choose to use shorter string by canceling it, in fact, by free canceling her string making her even more difficult to counter as it is risky when Kokoro misread and press button.
Even when Kokoro keep guarding it is also risky Christie’s throw or low attack like (PPPP2P) or Christie’s 1H+KP which give advantage to Christie +7 (or more) on guard and make Christie's follow up like 6P unable to be countered.
Since the Christie’s free cancel string create small margin of frame that allow some distance for Kokoro’s free backstep (7). The valuable of this distance is making Kokoro’s 7P become more effective hence increase chance to escape from Christie’s pressure prison. See video for demonstration, in the Example [2] min 2:00, Kokoro’s 7P is intended pulled out. It is direct counter to Christie strike even though Kokoro’s 7P is much slower. You can also test it in the training mode, it will give the same result. There is very little chance that Christie’s player will aware of the range (mostly not).
However, you cannot use this strategy if the wall is behind you.
3. After Kokoro success with either Strategy 1 or Strategy 2 or both and if that Christie’s player is not far superior than you Kokoro’s player. Now there is already impact on that Christie’s player to become slower or more defensive. At this point, use all Kokoro offensive tools to keep pressure and open Christie up. The gap between these two casts is now lessened and the rest is depend on you. (While I still don’t have answer for you about JAK).
When you fight the same Christie’s player long enough, she will learn to counter you (I mean countering Kokoro’s Anti-Christie strategy). And this is not a bad news. Anti-Christie strategy exist because of Christie’s aggressively offensive game, when Christie’s player decide to become slower or more defensive, Kokoro will have higher chance to pull out whatever she have.
4. The strategy involve some guessing and not guaranteed. Indeed, however, it is the risk that worth taking or suffer the hopelessly stun or being freezing.
5. For the situation Christie’s player feel annoy on our defensive style and choose to keep distance letting Kokoro to be the one to approach. I will not discuss here as we can use regular Kokoro’s tools which should already been discussed in other threads.
I have no chance to offline with anyone. As the personal experience is limited, here come to what you guys could fill up what has been overlooked. I will keep update this thread as soon as useful information provided.
This is the very first version of the build, I need your feed back to improve. Although the topic said “Anti-Christie”, in fact, the whole objective is to tone down the momentum of Christie’s aggressively offensive game. Hence, decrease the gap between those two during regular match.
Video example:
Example [1] :
Example [2] :
Example [3] :
Last edited:
