Lisa's top 10 moves

Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
With all the changes done in DOA5U, what would ya say are the top 10 moves for Lisa now?
IN MY OPINION:

no particular order....
1.) :1::P: high crush, still a great tool, just a bit slower.

2.) :4::K: safe on block(safe from grapplers at max range), lifting stun, opens up the stun game and BT shenanigans, great poking range

3.) BT :6::F+P: insane range, hurts like hell, DAT ASS

4.) BT :4::P+K: still an effective mix up starter on hit

5.) BT :F+K: although it leaves lisa pretty far away, it has some mind game potential

6.) :P: +1 on hit and block

7.) :3::K::4: low crush, BT transition, great poking range

8.) :7::K::6: great poking tool, lift stun, opens the stun game, Best Carrera transition imo

9.) :9::K: sitdown on CH, mixup potential on NH, low crush

10.) :P+K: +5 on block, turns a good amount of her moves into i9>, which is scary when taking into account that she has powerful throws to mixup with along with those moves at advantage.

-prepares to be chewed out-
 

ailingeternity

Active Member
Given her changes I think these moves work better in her favour now since her damage comes from shenanigans.

:1::P: - A great counter hit hunter (competes with :7::K::6: as her best), tracks, crushes highs. Bad at close range but a decent move.

BT :P::+::K: - Grants a free :6::P: on block (Leading to possible :6::P::8::K: launch combo) or an unholdable :3::3::K: (still blockable) launch.

:6::6::P: - Whether it hits or is blocked forces opponents onto the defensive, :6::P::P: can cause limbo stun for free launch combo and :6::6::P::K: leads into BT for more trickery.

:9::K: - Still has great oki potential, gives nice advantage (+25 on NH) great against low wakeup kicks for a possible CH, safe (-3 on block), sit down stun on CH.

:7::K::6: - Amazing move, a great poke, nice stun for CAR feint trickery and setting up OHs, offers enough advantage to begin shenanigans. You are always in control if this move hits.

BT :4::P: - Lisa's fastest launcher, mixed with using Deja Vu makes her BT game dangerous.

CAR :P:/:P::4: - Has great stun when used in combo, allows great use of BT if you transition into it.

:6::P: - Great ranged tool that has two useful ways to enter BT, also has a follow-up launcher for a nice juggle.

:426: :h::+::P: - Deja Vu, a highly damaging unbreakable throw, integral to Lisa's shenanigan game.

BT :2::P: - High crush, great setup for :236: :h::+::P:, puts opponents on the defensive, if not slow escaped allows Lisa to continue pressure.

While some of you may think BT :6::h::+::P: should be included, yes it's a great OH but I don't feel it can be used outside of the stun game, it travels a great distance but it's slow and easily high crushed. Within the stun game it has it's uses but since you can buffer :426: :h::+::P: from BT it's a better option against those attempting to hold a launch from Lisa's BT :4::P:, better damage, even BT :h::+::P: on it's own has better use than :6:::h::+::P:.
 

Batcommander

Well-Known Member
since you can buffer :426: :h::+::P: from BT it's a better option against those attempting to hold a launch from Lisa's BT :4::P:, better damage, even BT :h::+::P: on it's own has better use than :6:::h::+::P:.
wow, wtf didnt know you could do that. Great tip!

Here's my list:

:6::6::K:/:P::P::K:: i hated this move when it first came out, but now that it is +6 on block i love it. Basically, CAR :P+K: after :6::6::K: will beat i9-i11 moves FINALLY. I find people do not respect the advantage gained, which is understandable since it was useless when it was only +2. Once they do start respecting the guard break, then you can mix up with other things, even go for the new :4::4::F+P:. Speaking of . . .

:4::4::F+P:: The punishment move, we can net 80-90 damage on most of the cast after this. The nerf to the wall throw aspect is totally fair, now there is a use for :4::F+P: by the wall. Even though you can reduce the launch height by staggering, i find its really hard and impractical to do, and even then you can still get decent damage, which is better than the measly 50 damage it guaranteed in vanilla.

:1::P:: Still good, just can't use it up close unless you're absolutely sure it will crush high. At mid range you now have to make a choice between this and :6::P: since they have similar range: do you want the crush/tracking option of :1::P: or the speed of :6::P:? Fair nerf imo (though i do miss the vanilla speed, i aint gonna lie lol)

:8::F+P:: useful for oki and great at nabbing tech rolling opponents.

BT:4::F+P:: great move, but extremely dangerous if whiffed. It is a high risk/high reward move imo, which is what lucha libre should be about!:lisa:

:6::P:/:6::K:: great mids with good mixups, good to use after :P+K:/:6::H+K: guard break.

:P: and all of its various strings! I love this move and all of its mixups, great for setups, great on normal hit/counter hit/block, great for stun game--love it! Praise :P:!

:4::H+K:: Still our best escape tool against pressure.

:7::K:/:7::K::6_::P:: Ridiculous amount of options after it. :7::K::6_::P: gives an amazing amount of stun to do whatever you want.

BT :4::K:/:6::K::K:: great if the opponent doesnt tech roll, even if they do, you're still at advantage. EXCELLENT range.

:9::K:: still great, even after nerf. Wonderful for ground game shenanigans if your opponent doesnt tech roll.

:3::K:: great low crush, great OH setup for :236::F+P:

BT :2::P:: trip stun that sets up for :236::F+P:, can be used at threshold and won't knock opponent down. Good setup for :6::P:/:6::6::F+P: on NH.

BT :4::P:: fast, great launcher

BT :4::P+K:: fastest move from BT

:K:: Has a crap ton of mixups. I throw this out time to time when i expect people trying to invade my space. Okay against blocking opponent because of :K::2::K:/:K::6::K: mixup, but fuck do i miss the vanilla version. :(

As a bonus, here are my least favorite moves:
splash feint (BT :P+K::F:). I tried so hard to make this work in my game, but i just can't, sans for flashiness. Once i found out it has the same recovery as a regular body splash i was like :rolleyes:. Seriously, they either need to reduce the recovery, or at the very least, let :9::P: followups be usable from it.

:9::P:: as a movement tool, this is pretty terrible. Slow followups, slow frames, can be thrown during it wtf. You can free step around the entire thing and all of its followups lol. Needs a hitbox or a speed boost, stat.

:1::K::K: (handstand kick) and all of its followups: i've disliked this move ever since DOA4, and im shocked they added even more followups to it in 5. Needs to cause sitdown on the handstand kick, or just make it knock down and screw the followups.

BT :8::F+P:: completely redundant with the introduction of the new BT OH, ass slow, horrible recovery, still no tracking and nerfed damage in 5U, wtf? Why, TN?

All in all, i think TN did a fine job at revising Lisa's movelist in 5U, though i wish they would give some of these other moves another pass in the next patch.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
Random thought: I would like Lisa to be able to enter her BT stance from :6::K::K:. So the input would be :6::K::K::4:. That alone would make her a lot more solid IMO. But I don't think it'll look right or be possible. Btw, I've been using her :6::P::K::4: a lot more. On block, it's negative but the other person usually reacts late so it gives me time to use her BT shenanigans. It helped me to stop abusing :1::P: as well. :)
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
Random thought: I would like Lisa to be able to enter her BT stance from :6::K::K:. So the input would be :6::K::K::4:. That alone would make her a lot more solid IMO. But I don't think it'll look right or be possible. Btw, I've been using her :6::P::K::4: a lot more. On block, it's negative but the other person usually reacts late so it gives me time to use her BT shenanigans. It helped me to stop abusing :1::P: as well. :)
Oops I meant :4::K::K:
 

ailingeternity

Active Member
Great list Bat, mine is a little outdated, the moves you've listed are pretty accurate to what a Lisa player should be using my only issue with using CAR :P::+::K: after :6::6::K: is that if it's blocked, most of the cast can get a free launcher (-18) or if you're a grappler big throw punishment. I actually like the handstand kick now, it's a highly disregarded move since so many people expect her low follow-up from :1::K:, I agree that it needs to be removed or changed. :9::P: and splash feint offer nothing to her game, they need to be removed completely.
 

Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Great list Bat, mine is a little outdated, the moves you've listed are pretty accurate to what a Lisa player should be using my only issue with using CAR :P::+::K: after :6::6::K: is that if it's blocked, most of the cast can get a free launcher (-18) or if you're a grappler big throw punishment. I actually like the handstand kick now, it's a highly disregarded move since so many people expect her low follow-up from :1::K:, I agree that it needs to be removed or changed. :9::P: and splash feint offer nothing to her game, they need to be removed completely.
I wouldnt say nothing at all, more like its just something to throw out at the least expected of all times lol like in that video where I was fighting the mila player who kept creaming everyone in the lobby and won using :9::P::P: lol
 

Batcommander

Well-Known Member
Random thought: I would like Lisa to be able to enter her BT stance from :6::K::K:. So the input would be :6::K::K::4:. That alone would make her a lot more solid IMO. But I don't think it'll look right or be possible. Btw, I've been using her :6::P::K::4: a lot more. On block, it's negative but the other person usually reacts late so it gives me time to use her BT shenanigans. It helped me to stop abusing :1::P: as well. :)

I think :4::K::K: into BT might be OP. :1::P::K::K::4: would be nuts for an opponent to deal with!

As far as :6::P::K::4: being negative, i dont think there a lot of characters that get plus on block moves into their stances, aside from Sarah. I remember when it was -8 in vanilla, now THAT was useless.

p.s. nice melina avatar
 

b-bombs

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:4::4::F+P:: The punishment move, we can net 80-90 damage on most of the cast after this. The nerf to the wall throw aspect is totally fair, now there is a use for :4::F+P: by the wall. Even though you can reduce the launch height by staggering, i find its really hard and impractical to do, and even then you can still get decent damage, which is better than the measly 50 damage it guaranteed in vanilla.

Can someone elaborate a little more on this to me? For starters, I'm terrible at punishing with throws in general so any help regarding that would be awesome. Secondly, and most importantly, I've been under the impression that getting off :4::4::F+P: would guarantee follow-up damage since it puts you at +11, but for some reason I'm maybe 50% at actually connecting with the follow-up offline. And maybe I get it 20% online. I'm only following with :P:, but I just can't get it down.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Also what's the benefit of using :4::4::F+P: vs. :6::4::F+P:?

Thanks in advance!
 

Tones

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
44p+h is 6 frames. The 80% of attacks, if blocked will allow you to use it. That said, with the right setups and complementary tools that turns into 50/50 100% of the time.

As you've blocked the last attack press 44 to close of any delay because of input.

When 44p+h lands you're guaranteed a 50/50 or 33/33/33 situation for decent damage, depending on what your game is.

I don't understand the preference of 64p+h ever. Can someone chime in?
 

Batcommander

Well-Known Member
Can someone elaborate a little more on this to me? For starters, I'm terrible at punishing with throws in general so any help regarding that would be awesome. Secondly, and most importantly, I've been under the impression that getting off :4::4::F+P: would guarantee follow-up damage since it puts you at +11, but for some reason I'm maybe 50% at actually connecting with the follow-up offline. And maybe I get it 20% online. I'm only following with :P:, but I just can't get it down.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Also what's the benefit of using :4::4::F+P: vs. :6::4::F+P:?

Thanks in advance!
Well, since the opponent is backturned, they are not really at +11, they are at +16, because it takes 5 frames to turn around. So basically :6::P: is guaranteed after :4::4::F+P:! You can juggle with :6::P::8::K: after landing :4::4::F+P:, but if the opponent is really quick, they can slow escape and block it.

Try this combo on lightweights (and modify it accordingly :cool: )!
:4::4::F+P:, :6::P::8::K:, :6::P::8::K:, :6::K:, air throw
90 damage on normal hit

in vanilla, you only got +10, which meant only :4::F+K: was really guaranteed--the one frame buff was a great change in 5U.

4
I don't understand the preference of 64p+h ever. Can someone chime in?

Its an overlooked move by Team Ninja as far as i know; there's no reason to use it since they buffed :4::4::F+P:. Maybe if they changed to an OH or something?
 

b-bombs

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Oh okay, I guess I'm just having problems with my timing or something, because I ted to get hit out of my :4::4::F+P: follow up whether it's :6::P: or just :P:. I'll work on that. Thanks for the help guys!
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Don't know if this is helpful but I noticed 236 K has significan't pushback on block.
As for as I know you can't be neutral throw punish for this move on block regardless of how close you use this move.... you need to chase it to punish it or use a longer range throw thats faster than 8 frames...
Good news is theres no strike that fast, so as long as you don't get careless with the BT stance then this is a very crafty Kick.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Yeah I was just testing it now... the BT version is -3..... and you can back dash to maintain optimum space. Its one hell of a Kick.
44 T is pretty bad ass too, its a whopping 6 Frames.... thats two Frames faster than Tina's 44T making it alot more punishment viable.... Tins' s 44 T is best suited for "Psychic Resets"

I wana play Three of "The Grappling Four characters" Lisa being one of them and Hayabusa being the other.
 

Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
44T is really good, nets you free damage or if you wanna get ballsy, use an i11 throw for the bt deja vu for 76 dmg
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Which one of those two Throws nets you a higher advantage ?
And is Lisa faster when shes BT ?
One of the things I like about Tina is when shes BT she gets an 11 Frame Mid Kick.... I think thats faster than all her normal strikes.
 

Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
no shes not, lol
her jab is actually 2 frame slower BUT :P::P: becomes a natural combo like :P::K:
she has certain moves that make her safe if she goes into bt. her mix ups shine in her bt stance though
 
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