Living in harmony with rabid casuals? (Rikuto's dangerous "opinion")

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Disclaimer: Wall of motherfuckingtext! I firmly believe most people will disagree with this. At times I disagree with it myself. On nights like tonight however, I find myself overwhelmed with the despair that maybe there is just no other rationale way to view things.

I stay as cool as I can here. In fact to my competitive brothers, I try to be nothing but nice these days. I wasn't always like that though, and I've actually got a pretty dark history of being a complete douchebag. I've repaired a lot of that reputation as growing up tends to help, and spending a lot of time with Mr. Wah who is a very neutral individual in most things has helped me to also chill out as a person.

I do still have one thing that sets me off and turns me into a complete jackass though, and that's the rabid casual.

So this is the typical routine for me.

I go to a new board or community, I see a section for DOA or some other fighter, I check it out.

I notice everyone there seems to be casual oriented, with almost all competitive talk being seriously taboo. Worse yet, should I interject with my thoughts on the game itself I am quickly met with scrub talk about how I take the game too seriously and that I shouldn't try to force my elitist attitude on their public sanctuary. The mere mention of playing the game the "right" way seems to always strike a nerve with people, almost as if I am insulting their intelligence by proxy as they have shown nothing but inability to do so thus far. I don't even have to make such accusations, yet they will always respond as though I have.

This kind of insecurity is quite common, and the casual will almost always lash out first by telling me that I should just let them play the game the way they want to play it, and that I have no right to hold myself above anyone or claim that my way of playing is anymore correct than theirs.


One of the most hilarious things I have done in the past (and I have seen grap3 do this too now) is link Sirlin's Play to Win. I notice quite often that the mere act of this is like forcing a possessed person to read from The Holy Bible. Seriously, they won't do it. They'll sometimes pretend they did it, and they will even try to hold an argument afterwards which assumes that they did it, but they never once had any intention of respecting the article enough to read it. It's that kind of lack of respect and arrogance that leads me to think that some casuals, in fact, most, just can't be reasoned with or talked to.

I don't have to convert every soul out there and nor do I expect to, but I do somehow feel like the casual scrub attitude that plagues current generation fighting games, in fact, gaming in general is incredibly detrimental to its growth. What I mean by growth is in terms of the games themselves competitively (ie how the developers design them), the communities, and possibly even e-sports as a whole.

Video game populaton is growing because, by nature, the worlds population is growing. It is only natural that some of those new births become gamers. The boom of the internet has helped this as well. If a casuals opinion, dangerous and ignorant as it is, is left unchecked then others will adopt this opinion en masse among with the new people joining that community. It becomes a community mentality and it will grow until it becomes dominant and can no longer be removed.

Such is the case for a community of any game, or sport, or thing. That's just how group minds tend to work. Street Fighter has its share of casuals, and crazy scrubs, but you notice that they are quickly put down anytime they say something stupid. The massive competitive community overshadows the idiots opinion so drastically that the idiot can never gain any ground. New entrants to the community that have an open mind about competitive play are allowed to flourish however.

This is the kind of power that having the belief of the majority has. It's the power to instantly silence stupidity with an overwhelming force of numbers. The power of belief is the strongest there is. It can cause revolution and change the very foundations of the world. It can also cause stability, peace, and progress. Belief, like the religions that it is so closely tied to at times, has often been fought for in wars. People often look back at a war over religion and say "what a horrible waste of lives that was, all over a stupid religion".

The Crusades, for example, failed to win the war of belief. They failed that because they lost the strength of arms as well. When you go in with the intent of completely annihilating a belief and cannot stamp it all out, all you have managed to create is an eternity of retribution. No matter how much the world tries to mature after this point, that malice will always exist, and people will always remember that you were the one who came in and tried to destroy their way of life.

So what does that have to do with me? When DOA2U hit, I had learned from my defeat in DOA 3 and had forsaken the path of the scrub. I immediately went on to try and convert others so that they did not have to suffer such a shameful defeat as I had, but could still enjoy the benefits of being a hardened competitive player. It did not work, by and large, and I was met with hostile resistance at every corner. I was accused of all the same horrible things that I had once accused other people of. Being young I did the only thing I knew how to do -- I lashed back. Since they would attempt to demean and destroy my newfound love of the game and reduce its importance to nothing, I would do the same to them.

The difference between the casual and I, now, was that I had come from a similar background but had ascended through my own grit and willingness to persevere under incredible embarrassment and defeat. I knew what it meant to be an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about, and I knew what it meant to have my integrity put to the edge of a knife and spared so I could grow. I knew that the competitive beast was not what I once thought it was, and so I also knew this.

The typical casual would not ever concede their ignorance unless put through similar shame.

The trouble is that all people are different, and will respond to that situation differently. Some will take this sign of mercy at the end of all shame as the olive branch that it is and grow as a person. Most will crawl back into their scrub mentality, curse you to oblivion, and disappear into the night never to be seen again as their shame makes it too much trouble to be around you.

My dangerous opinion is this.

I honestly and truly believe that every single casual player who exhibits this kind of behavior should be put through the burner and humiliated. I believe they should be brought to the point where they feel as though they do not matter at all unless they fight to matter. In going through this process they will grow as a person and see the truth of competitive gaming.

To those that reject the challenge, I believe they should be ridiculed, berated, and driven off permanently. Yes, I actually do believe this, insane as it sounds. I believe this, because as long as their own belief is kept a public majority they are a threat to the growth of the game, community, e-sports, and everything that is associated with what I happen to believe in.

I can see now the reader is taking off his hat, looking at the ground and shaking his head slowly like a cowboy would after he just had to put down a good horse.

"Why such hostile intent, Rikuto? That's going to, if anything, kill growth, right? You can't just drive off the vast majority of the players! Who will we make new players out of?"


Well... actually, you're right. You can't. I don't think the people visiting forums on the internet are the majority though. They are still the minority. Casuals from somewhere like IGN or gamefaqs might reflect the opinions of the majority, but their specific communities are not the majority of people playing the game. Those sites ARE major pipelines that lead into social gaming however. If you were to clean every last condescending voice out of those nests with a "convert or die" attitude, you would certainly kill the majority of that particular community.

That is actually a good thing in my mind. When you erase the public sanctuary for stupidity, anytime a new person visits that forum they immediately see the mentality of the people who have remained through the fire. They see what is considered relevant, and they are much more likely to start asking the relevant questions rather than be "that guy". This is just human nature, nobody wants to be the awkward one stumbling into a new community asking really dumb questions that nobody finds relevant. When this happens across all public venues, every community will begin growing at an incredible rate with the right mentality, and all good things that you want for your games will come that much faster.

Of course, it will never happen unless you first win the strength of arms and stamp them out completely.

So there you have it. If anyone wanted to know why I'm such an incredible asshole on casual forums, but pretty chill on here and other competitive sites, that's why. I fully believe in using the nuclear option against casuals and being an incredible, and at times unrealistically arrogant douchebag to get rid of them. Part of it is an act to set them on the right path, part of it is my care for them to grow, and part of it is because I shouldn't have play therapist for every single retarded casual who has the audacity to talk down to me every time I say something.


Feel free to disagree, I know most everyone will. It's cool though, I'm used to it ;)
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
I agree mostly. Everyone starts somewhere, but when stupidity enters the conversation and they attempt to argue specific facts...then its time to pretty much tell them to stfu. You can only argue with stubborn ignorance for so long.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
You should post this at DOAWorld.com. Just recently, certain people are getting the wrong idea about you and talking shit behind your back. This could help them understand you better... with my help, of course.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
You should post this at DOAWorld.com. Just recently, certain people are getting the wrong idea about you and talking shit behind your back. This could help them understand you better... with my help, of course.

DoAW is the home of the type of casuals Rikuto is referring to. They would never understand his post and they would simply bash him for it. The site literally caters to the thumb suckers of the casual fighting community.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I figured as much that they would be. Weak dogs bark the loudest.

Drop me some names and some quotes and I'll be sure to put them through the necessary process.


Moeru has been cool enough so I've no need to start war on an entire website, but I can certainly go after individuals.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
I have spoken to these types of players in real-time, and man is this mindset annoyng as fuck to talk to. Even if you give them the trashing of their life, it won't change anything. These players will forever exsist and there is no way to eradicate them from any community. Its very noticeable in our community because it is very small at the moment. I use to get into arugments all the time, saying some of the things and trying to do the things you want to do to these types of players, Rikuto. I honestly have out grown the arguing and now when I hear or read the stupid shit they say/type, I ignore it. Yes, that is very hard to do. I was in a party a few days ago with a player spewing nothing but bullshit about how doa is played, how I played (turtling), and how my style of playing is of the "new generation" and his style is of the "old generation". I wanted to go in on him, but, it wouldn't have accomplished anything, just a big yelling match.

If it is more than one person doing what you are willing to do, then yeah, it may work. You'd need like a large team of people, lol, to match the numbers of players you want to get at. At the end of the day I suggest you to just leave it be, you are about to step into a whole new world of a headache.

Good luck, my dude.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
If all you do is argue, then yea, nothing ever gets done. You have to goad them into a match.

I think of it like this, Allan.

If they are truly casual, if you demean them enough they will just quit whatever community they are a part of. A casual player can't stomach a fight, and has no desire to be harassed every day.

If they have any self respect they will want to fight back and you can goad them into a match. Once you've got it on your terms, its easy to embarrass the hell out of them as necessary and drag them through the mud.

One of the constant insults I used back in the day was that gamefaqs was nothing but a breeding ground for garbage. The reason that insult is so good is because not only does it insult the people in the immediate vicinity to the argument, but it gets people talking to their friends about this complete asshole that thinks he is better than everyone. People can't stand that kind of arrogance, they want to see it shut down. What they don't realize of course is the massive skill gap and that they never really had any chance to begin with. It basically lights a beacon to anyone with a pair of balls to step forward and get them kicked.

And once you get that match over with, ESPECIALLY if you had someone recording it, you can either boost their confidence and show them how to improve, or you can post that match and embarrass them so hard they lose all capacity to play the game. Even if you don't manage to save that person, someone somewhere is going to be influenced by the constant ass whuppings that'd be getting dished out. That kind of thing gets noticed, trust me.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
This method is truly insane, to force players to act a particular. I use to stand behind this method 100%, but I have changed, and I could really careless. I could careless in the sense of not trying to convert these block minded players. I have beaten plenty of people senseless and even still the "whuppings" don't get to them. I have recorded FT10 matches, completely destroying players, and still after me digging in their chest, they stand firm in their beliefs. I have caught a few frogs leaping, and maybe my venom is weak because players for damn sure get up and keep on trucking as if nothing happened.

Still talking as much shit if not more before they got popped. Although I have never caught back up with most of the players I have had run-ins with, who knows how they're doing now. The ones that I have caught up with, it's like nothing has changed, and I am still the cheating, turtling, grab whoring, punch grab whoring, etc. player they know. Even now when I come with a more subtle approach, I am still wrong, and my ways of playing are "cheap". So its like if I sit here and pummel you to no end, you don't learn, if I be nice, you don't learn. Now I'm like fuck it, I wash my hands of the situations, and mind my own business.

I do come across some casual players that do want to learn, and those players I enjoy teaching to no end. They are becoming competitve players more and more, and I have noticed the change. Man, it's a great thing to see, especailly when they ask me questions that they wouldn't have asked a year ago to anyone about the game.

I'd like to see you in action, though. This will be highly entertaining, just to see the unknown stepping up to get broken by you. lol.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
Let's not beat around the bush. These aren't "casuals" these are "scrubs" as not all casuals are scrubs (and not all scrubs are casuals). Some of them are "scrubs" simply due to ignorance and can be educated and taught, some however are sadly, beyond help. As Seth Killian (from Capcom, formerly of SRK) once said "you can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make them think."

And speaking of which, it really doesn't help when <redacted> is allowed to post scrubby shit on the front page of <redacted>. Every effort done to try to convert these folks and show them how smart play not held back by arbitrary scrub rules is better is ruined thanks to that shit.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
True enough d3v.

Another problem I have is that the true casual player will typically come to aid in the defense of the scrub, even when he has nothing to do with the argument. Even if the scrub is the only one instigating, the competitive player almost always comes across as the aggressor to the general populace as he is the one setting someone straight. The truth isn't always pleasant, either, no matter how much you try and sugar coat things for people.

The scrub feels more confident in his position when he has other casuals telling the competitive guy to back off. This makes him feel like he's in the right.

That's kind of where I lose my patience and want to just go for the nuclear option, opening up on everybody.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Another problem I have is that the true casual player will typically come to aid in the defense of the scrub, even when he has nothing to do with the argument. Even if the scrub is the only one instigating, the competitive player almost always comes across as the aggressor to the general populace as he is the one setting someone straight. The truth isn't always pleasant, either, no matter how much you try and sugar coat things for people.

Oh you just know Awesmic is going to think you're talking about him, as I do.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Awesmic is not a true casual player, even if he originally intended to be. He's simply played the game too much now.

He's also intelligent enough to see through the BS of someone like Xino, so that removes him from the scrub category as well.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
No worries, you two. I know you guys are talking about someone else.

If I'm correct, I share a common sense of frustration as well.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
This is why you need to build the competitive community to the point where even casuals can tell if a scrub is a scrub. I mean, look at Unity - as casual as that place is (I should know, since I moderate that place as well), there's always folks ready to tell off scrubs. Why is this, because the whole Playing to Win mentality is so ingrained into the community. Sure you get retards like <redacted> and <redacted>, but they're the exception, not the rule.
 

Moeru Wa

New Member
Doesn't matter, I don't really value ignorant scrubs always. Wish I could help you guys by telling people off when they out of hand but I just don't have the time.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
The sooner it gets passed on, the better.

After what I've seen yesterday, the folks at DOAW NEED to see this. They'll be that much better off knowing and understanding the truth while they still can.
 
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