DOA5LR Mai Shiranui DOA5 Last Round Gameplay Discussion

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I dont really like unholdables off of walls unless I'm able to actually mix up off the wall. Otherwise its not real pressure and it doesn't prevent the opponent's ability to WUK.

Its nice to know I can do that, but to stop it, all you have to do is not tech roll.
 

UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
I dont really like unholdables off of walls unless I'm able to actually mix up off the wall. Otherwise its not real pressure and it doesn't prevent the opponent's ability to WUK.

Its nice to know I can do that, but to stop it, all you have to do is not tech roll.
Yep...
It has to be mixed up with FTs; otherwise people would just lie there and get up late on purpose as the current system allows them to do that -_-.

In terms of her get-in ability, she can also just stay out of wake-up kicks' reach to see and decide whether to dash in or not.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
I haven't actually tested this yet but can't you just sidestep cancel your PB and go for a ground attack if your opponent refuses to tech roll? Or does that not work?
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I haven't actually tested this yet but can't you just sidestep cancel your PB and go for a ground attack if your opponent refuses to tech roll? Or does that not work?

You could but you are eating up frames and still providing enough time for the player to go for the WU options since you are attacking immediately after cancelling a PB. Once the opponent figures that out, there really isn't much going for a PB unholdable since the opponent has to be conditioned for it, which is rare and reactable due to you charging a PB.

Personally, the best unholdables from walls are usually ones that kills the wake up kick option/teching them up, leaving you safe on the long run even if they guard upon rising.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
You could but you are eating up frames and still providing enough time for the player to go for the WU options since you are attacking immediately after cancelling a PB. Once the opponent figures that out, there really isn't much going for a PB unholdable since the opponent has to be conditioned for it, which is rare and reactable due to you charging a PB.
Hmm, I see. So my setups seem to be rather situational. I guess I'll save them when I'm playing against people who have a high natural tendency to tech roll everything. I know plenty of players who do that out of habit without even looking at what their opponent is doing.
 

UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
I haven't actually tested this yet but can't you just sidestep cancel your PB and go for a ground attack if your opponent refuses to tech roll? Or does that not work?
IMO, if it were an unholdable from other strikes instead of a PB, it would be more useful as they're less reactable and your opponent may be afraid of you trying to FT him so he would be more likely to tech roll, while PB, as @iHajinShinobi said, can't do anything against a grounded opponent. The opponent usually has at least 0.5 second to see what you'll do next after getting slammed onto a wall.

On paper, half of a second is enough for reacting to an opponent charging a PB due to its animation.
If you want to PB cancel and then go for a FT, it still can work, but only on those who intend not to tech roll and not to attempt a wake-up kick immediately..

Charging PB takes some time, and cancelling PB by SS takes 26 frames in-game, i,e, 0(20)5.
The fastest ground attack may be i12 2Ps, which actually hit an opponent at the 14th frame.

So in total, those actions may take more than 50 frames, which indicates that the opponent can attempt a wake-up kick as the skill info shows that most wall slams grant the attacker frame advantage only from 30 to 50 frames. This has something to do with the wall type and the recovery of the strike you use to slam your opponent onto a wall.

The fighting system has been set to let people who don't tech roll get less pressure from the attacker since DOA5U as it screws most of the FTs found in vanilla DOA5.
 
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KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
IMO, if it were an unholdable from other strikes instead of a PB, it would be more useful as they're less reactable. The opponent usually has at least 0.5 seconds to see what you'll do next after getting slammed onto a wall.

On paper, half of a second is enough for reacting to an opponent charging a PB due to its animation.
If you want to PB cancel and then go for a FT, it still can work, but only on those who intends not to tech roll and not to attempt a wake-up kick immediately..

Charging PB takes some time, and cancelling PB by SS takes 26 frames in-game, i,e, 0(20)5.
The fastest ground attack may be i12 2Ps, which actually hits an opponent at the 14th frame.

So in total, those actions may take more than 50 frames, which indicates that the opponent can attempt a wake-up kick as the skill info shows that most wallslams grant the attacker frame advantage only from 30 to 50 frames.

The fighting system has been set to let people who don't tech roll get less pressure from the attacker since DOA5U as it screws most of the FTs found in vanilla DOA5.
Thanks for your explanation!
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
@iHajinShinobi You mentioned 6K
By the way, 66K is a really strong move from Mai. Had some games with Bladez hours ago and it crushes highs, plus follow ups, and the initial raw start up move itself is a crumple stun.
I meant actually join your lobby when I saw you online to run a few matches but it was full. I definitely be around later on this Friday. Based on what you wrote here, I probably do need to use 66K a bit more often. The startup of the move looked a bit intimidating but then again... there is still quite a bit of benefit from using it in the right situation.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
@iHajinShinobi You mentioned 6K

I meant actually join your lobby when I saw you online to run a few matches but it was full. I definitely be around later on this Friday. Based on what you wrote here, I probably do need to use 66K a bit more often. The startup of the move looked a bit intimidating but then again... there is still quite a bit of benefit from using it in the right situation.

I'll be on tonight to work on Akira as well.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
By the way, 66K is a really strong move from Mai. Had some games with Bladez hours ago and it crushes highs, plus follow ups, and the initial raw start up move itself is a crumple stun.

Are you sure your timing on challenging 66K wasn't timed well? I'm smacking 66K with Ayane's 5K clean at the moment. In what way did Mai's 66K crush your high(s)?
 
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DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Are you sure your timing on challenging 66K wasn't timed well? I'm smacking 66K with Ayane's 5K clean at the moment. It what way did Mai's 66K crush your high(s)?

Unsure at the moment since you now mentioned highs connecting still, but would be home in a few hours to try it out again. At first I believed it was one of those moves where it's instant like squatting. Jacky's backshuffle commands into 33P for example crushes highs but it's instant and can still get jabbed out of upon rise but can go under the high attack if timed correctly, which is almost to certain for relying on lady luck. Can't say if Mai's version is instant for this case.

The move from Mai is deliciously good for whiff punishing, covering distance, and has this ample placement (somewhat like leaning back) from the attack, pretty cool actually. It may also possibly be Ayane's K having a greater hurtbox scenario for connecting(?), I could be wrong here but perhaps factors maybe, I can't say really but I had cases where the high misses completely but the followup attacks connected on my end which saves one in a knick of time rather than just whiffing one high and getting hit with a stun after.
 
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iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Mai is actually considered off the ground when she does 66K, she'll evade lows for a bit. I think the move's start up and when it's actually active is what makes it really tough to counter poke. It'll take good practice to recognize when it might be coming so you can prep up the preferred attack against it. Assuming you don't block or won't hold.
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
I like to think that 66K can be relatively useful when playing the stun game if opponents like to hold early catch them in their recovery frames. There is quite a bit that Mai can threaten with after getting a stun on the opponent. Mai seems yo be great at baiting things out from close to mid range.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Speaking of which, we can't be surprised if the character will receive changes upcoming next month. Not a character roster patch list since that isn't coming until DOAFES summer time days, but changes similar to Naotora where 1-2 characters were immediate change right away during costume updates. (Naotora's BT2P refloat etc.)
 

GreatDarkHero

This is frame advantage
Premium Donor
If that were the case, the only change I would recommend is Mai having her recovery time fixed on her holds and a low option from 1KK string (the latter which would only be useful as she already does well at messing with the opponent while they are stunned).
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
6PK and 1K do not need a low follow up. The strings are already spammed heavily enough as is. A lot of people also have a difficult time blocking them too. Lol
 
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UprisingJC

Well-Known Member
6PK and 1K do no need a low follow up. The strings are already spammed heavily enough as is. A lot of people also have a difficult time blocking them too. Lol
I'm currently one of those who have a difficulty blocking them even if I know both follow-ups can be sidestepped. lol
Still lack the experience to both play and fight against her. No solid Mai in my community unfortunately..
 
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