Mentality Behind The Monster (Open Space Shenanigans)
- Thread starter Rikuto
- Start date
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
,
On high-counter only.
The amount of frame advantage you get is dependent on it.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
There were a few changes but nothing that really affects his game plan much.
3K will no longer cause a NH sit down on a crouching opponent, but it still works on CH and after a trip stun from 2K/water/other sitdown stuns. In exchange, they made it safe. So it's decent spacing tool that works in CERTAIN matchups now.
His OH range was godlike in vanilla, nerfed in Ultimate, and then buffed back to godlike in Last Round.
The rest of his changes were minor. Some differences in damage application during advanced holds, and some hitbox changes during certain moves that don't really change much of anything in practice.
3K will no longer cause a NH sit down on a crouching opponent, but it still works on CH and after a trip stun from 2K/water/other sitdown stuns. In exchange, they made it safe. So it's decent spacing tool that works in CERTAIN matchups now.
His OH range was godlike in vanilla, nerfed in Ultimate, and then buffed back to godlike in Last Round.
The rest of his changes were minor. Some differences in damage application during advanced holds, and some hitbox changes during certain moves that don't really change much of anything in practice.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Bayman isn't much of an air combo character.
It pretty much always comes down to "Do I want to take a chunk of his lifebar by hitting him a couple of times in the air and then going for a guaranteed ground throw?"
Or
"Do I want to bounce him and keep pressure going?"
Often I find its better to simply ignore the damaging air juggles until your opponent is below 50% and simply go for pressure resets. Make them get annoyed, and they'll start to do panic mode stuff. Thats when they get hit by your OH's and you can pretty much lock them down for the whole match.
If you WERE going to go for a damaging juggle, then yes. There are setups, but they are all different based on weight because they all involve ground throws afterwards. The basic one for a midweight would be 236P, 33P, 3K, 2T 22T.
I would recommend using that to kill somebody more than I would use it to just do damage though. That puts you right at their feet and ready to eat a wakeup kick.
For heavies you'll likely have to just 236P 3K3P+KT. Does less damage, but gives you more distance to get away. Sadly, no pressure opportunity either. Stick with bouncing most of the time, and if they refuse to get up start using 1P to force the issue.
It pretty much always comes down to "Do I want to take a chunk of his lifebar by hitting him a couple of times in the air and then going for a guaranteed ground throw?"
Or
"Do I want to bounce him and keep pressure going?"
Often I find its better to simply ignore the damaging air juggles until your opponent is below 50% and simply go for pressure resets. Make them get annoyed, and they'll start to do panic mode stuff. Thats when they get hit by your OH's and you can pretty much lock them down for the whole match.
If you WERE going to go for a damaging juggle, then yes. There are setups, but they are all different based on weight because they all involve ground throws afterwards. The basic one for a midweight would be 236P, 33P, 3K, 2T 22T.
I would recommend using that to kill somebody more than I would use it to just do damage though. That puts you right at their feet and ready to eat a wakeup kick.
For heavies you'll likely have to just 236P 3K3P+KT. Does less damage, but gives you more distance to get away. Sadly, no pressure opportunity either. Stick with bouncing most of the time, and if they refuse to get up start using 1P to force the issue.
CrudeRaven
Member
So what method takes priority when it comes to damage? Hes has strong counters and throws but you cant rely on them so what should i focus on most of the time?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Whatever method is open to you at the time. You don't attack a person a certain way just because it does more damage. You use whichever method will actually work against them, and scale up your damage efforts from there.
Typically Bayman has a harder time getting in, so in the early part of the round you want to use enders that will allow you to continue pressure. During the later part of the round, after you've taken 50% lifebar, is when you want to start thinking about using the large damage finishers.
This is only the standard rulebook for a general intelligent opponent though. Every player is going to react differently to the options you use. Sometimes, if a person is going to just keep holding no matter what, maybe you WANT to hit them with a bunch of back breakers. For a person who likes to hit buttons, you want to keep looping them with bounces and wall advantage setups. For a cautious, high level opponent, going by the playbook may be a more solid approach.
The very first time you stun somebody you should be trying to gauge how they respond and making an informed decision about how you will proceed against them. If they are inclined to hold, you can punish that in a very big way. You are never obligated to throw them, nor are you ever obligated to launch them. You can OH them at the end of a stun too, or delay any of these options for further mixup. Find out what works and identify it early on. It's different for every person.
As far as neutral game goes, its entirely matchup based. But a good place to start is with a few general rules. If you think you can catch them running in on you, stop them with. If you think you can make them whiff in a big way, punish that with . Some characters like Hayate can't really be stopped easily in either way and you have to get more creative, or space much further out. Not every fight is going to be easy.
Typically Bayman has a harder time getting in, so in the early part of the round you want to use enders that will allow you to continue pressure. During the later part of the round, after you've taken 50% lifebar, is when you want to start thinking about using the large damage finishers.
This is only the standard rulebook for a general intelligent opponent though. Every player is going to react differently to the options you use. Sometimes, if a person is going to just keep holding no matter what, maybe you WANT to hit them with a bunch of back breakers. For a person who likes to hit buttons, you want to keep looping them with bounces and wall advantage setups. For a cautious, high level opponent, going by the playbook may be a more solid approach.
The very first time you stun somebody you should be trying to gauge how they respond and making an informed decision about how you will proceed against them. If they are inclined to hold, you can punish that in a very big way. You are never obligated to throw them, nor are you ever obligated to launch them. You can OH them at the end of a stun too, or delay any of these options for further mixup. Find out what works and identify it early on. It's different for every person.
As far as neutral game goes, its entirely matchup based. But a good place to start is with a few general rules. If you think you can catch them running in on you, stop them with
. If you think you can make them whiff in a big way, punish that with . Some characters like Hayate can't really be stopped easily in either way and you have to get more creative, or space much further out. Not every fight is going to be easy.
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