Metal Gear Solid V (Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain)

Game Over

Well-Known Member
I must've watched the trailer 5 times today, so many questions...

Only 1 question matters ...


WHY THE F*** CAN'T KONAMI LEAVE THIS FRANCHISE ALONE?!?!?!!!!!!

The MGS franchise should've "ended" with MGS4. When you've already got yourself a complete picture painted, and then go off continuing to add iterations, you're not really "adding" anything anymore, you're essentially just "doing stuff" with the characters and themes, cluttering up the picture unnecessarily, and before you know it, you've got Fast & Furious 7, Die Hard 19, Assassin's Creed 283, etc. and people start forgetting what made the franchise memorable in the first place.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I don't recall, so ... ... ... no?
yes. you would give me shit all the time when i would complain about terrible remakes and sequals. remember karate kid? you defended that based on its ability to make people money. well now this is bad, but its gonna make money. now you know how it feels. only its not as insulting as karate kid was.
 

Game Over

Well-Known Member
yes. you would give me shit all the time when i would complain about terrible remakes and sequals. remember karate kid? you defended that based on its ability to make people money. well now this is bad, but its gonna make money. now you know how it feels. only its not as insulting as karate kid was.

Oh, I see where you're coming from.

First, let me say that I generally don't "berate" someone in the instance he/she has an opinion different from mine on a topic I'm invested in. Even if I disagree strongly with the opinion, and argue against the opinion, I try to stay mindful not to needlessly throw personal attacks and insults toward a person. So, you saying I berated you over a disagreement kinda threw me off (hence the response).

That said. Let me clarify a bit here, since I guess I don't see this in exactly the same context as you seem to.

When it comes, particularly, to needless sequels that add nothing to (or possibly detract from) their respective franchises, I'm sure we can mostly agree (on principle). Where possible disagreement may come up will be with variance of opinion on the actual "quality" of the sequel, and where the line gets drawn on whether it should or shouldn't have even been made. I really don't mind sequels, so long as it makes sense for there to be sequels (EX: See below for my feeling on 300 getting a sequel), and they are not obviously being spammed out for money (ala Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Fast and Furious, Die Hard, etc).

Yt3IGan0Cf8.jpg

^ HOW THE F*** does 300 get a sequel?!!?


In regards to MGS5, here, I'm sure we can fully agree that this game serves no real purpose other than to make Konami money off the franchise name. MGS has run its story arc, and better would be for them to do new arcs, titling the games Metal Gear [something else] if they want to keep using the "Metal Gear" name.

Note - I have no problem with Metal Gear Rising.



On the particular topic of remakes, it's clear our opinions differ drastically. For one, I'll admit I'm very lenient when it comes to remakes (and movies in general), as I can see the value in (or at least understand the goal of) updating an old property to draw-in a new audience. I get that ... especially with movies. Now does Hollywood go wrong with a lot of remakes? YES, they do. But I'm not one to be as sensitive and/or as harsh about it as some others choose to be.

About The Karate Kid remake, particularly, I don't have a problem with it. I actually really like the movie. Some people really hate it. And ironically, it was, at one point, going to BE titled "The Kung Fu Kid", but someone in marketing decided something like "Hey, we'll make more money with it being 'The Karate Kid'. It's pretty much the same movie, anyway!". That, and maybe Dreamworks' trademarking of "Kung Fu" names has some "legal" influence on the name (according to a Jackie Chan blog). Whatever.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/jackie-chans-karate-kid-remake-to-be-called-kung-fu-kid/

http://jackiechan.com/blog/1017815--The-Karate-Kid-Worldwide-Promotional-Tour

The next day, I booked a theater and bought 120 tickets for all my friends and colleagues to watch The Karate Kid, which is called "Kung Fu Dream" in Chinese. Remember, since Dreamworks registered "Kung Fu Panda", they also registered "Kung Fu" everything! So in China, that is not a problem.

And just for arguments' sake ... if it were titled "The Kung Fu Kid", for instance, would it really have made ANY difference for a some people? Instead of complaints being "It's a terrible remake of The Karate Kid!", complaints would be "It's a terrible rip-off/wannabe of The Karate Kid!".

Point being ... I don't see MGS5, here, being in the same context as something like The Karate Kid. I don't have a problem with The Karate Kid. I see MGS5 as completely unnecessary. Others' opinions may very well differ/vary.
 

Keved

Well-Known Member
Hideo Kojima is quite simply, the man. Imo no other dev does trailer excitement quite like Hideo does. The build up is just sensational! Remember MGS2 Sons of Liberty trailer?

Snake donned in a hoody walking down the rain-choked bridge smoking a ciggy before sky-diving onto the tanker, bandana flapping in the wind. Then hearing those croaky gravel-throat vocals through the codecs transmitter. & that was just the beginning! Then we got little next-gen advancements sprinkled into our gaping maws just to make the wait oh so more difficult. Remember that impeccable detail!? Bursts of powder erupt after your bullets puncture flour bags, bottles ooze contents & watching that little ice cube actually melt in real time if you watched it long enough to take notice & admire!!!. Then he throws in bleach haired blokes wearing stilettos with thighs like Beyonce and skating bombers named Fat Man. But it's the crazy stuff like shooting a man with a tranquilizer dart while his pissing in the ocean & doing cartwheels with a naked man while he skillfully manages to hide his polygonal junk. This is the only game that can get away with letting seagulls splat guano on your first person view mode or kissing posters of Asian models in lockers.

Then there was Snake Eater? How godly was that trailer? Background art performing CQC during the menu screen & the James Bond style music introducing the 1960's jungle era setting! Then we had that never-ending ladder climbing sequence, codec chatter with Godzilla-obsessed movie buffs named Para-Medic (W.T.F), bad guys ranging from century old snipers that can die if you don't play the game for a week, soldiers that control hornets, astronauts with flame throwers & a final boss called The Boss. Throw in stealth camo, snake hunting, wildlife eating & tree climbing & you still have one of the best games ever made, imo.

Finally, Guns of The Patriots. That Blu-ray channel altering intro, that Snake smoking load screen, the texture altering Octo-camo, the Mk II robot that could tap on walls to distract guards, gun launderers with cola-drinking monkeys in nappies as side-kicks and enemies ranging from turkey-like mechs that sound like mad cows and a group of real-life modeled babes trapped in psychotic robot suits. I could go on & on but i am actually starting to feel weird myself. :cool:

What I'm trying to say i guess is that it's always the little risks that make me love the Metal Gear games. You don't see ideas like this anywhere else, you don't see devs dare to attempt weird shite like this & with each Metal Gear one upping itself with innovation each installment i dare to dream what this Otaku pimp has planned for us next. He is already looking like treading on touchy subject matter regarding certain Taboo & so far David Hayters cancer croak is no longer, but is Kojima just toying with us once again? The surprises man, i love it how this guy has majority of his fan-base thinking WTF after watching his trailers multiple times while he most likely sits back on his velvet,couch-on-wheels pimp throne sipping an Asian tea while grinning at everyone's theories.

@Game Over, i share your concerns in the sense of the current story arc. By the looks of the trailer here Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain looks like fattening out the Big Boss scenario more & giving us more insight on characters such as Zero & possibly Raiden when he was a kid, (just speculating). As a fan of the series i can see where you're coming from & we're even seeing it with some series now, GoW Ascension copped some flack for this very reason that it didn't really feel warranted or needed as part of the series, many people consider it the problem child of the series that didn't really have a purpose other then fleshing out the backstory & shoehorning multiplayer into the game to garner some sales. I personally think with MGS5, although it's probably not really needed as far as story progression goes, if one man can bring new life to his work it would have to be this guy. I'm confident he can pull it off with some new innovation.

Either way, as a big fan of this franchise & admirer of this man's workmanship, art & vision, i cannot wait to see what becomes of his latest work. One thing is certain:

hideo.kojima.lol.2.021009-225px.jpg
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda grave digging here but the game is actually out now(atleast Ground Zeroes is) whats people thoughts on the game?

As limited Ground Zeroes is compared to what Phantom Pain will be, this has to be mechanically the best Metal Gear game to date the guards are actually smart and can spot you from across the map and despite reflex mode the game is actually quite difficult when turned off especially in the daytime missions.

I can not wait for the Phantom Pain next year (the DLC page suggests a 2015 date)
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
I severely dislike the game myself.

For all of its forward-thinking design decisions (and to be fair, there are quite a few), the fact that the enemy immediately homes in on your position once alerted is still incredibly annoying. I've had people from clear across the map run directly to my position and start shooting before.

The driving is completely pointless because in the one situation it makes sense (fast getaway), they immediately shoot your passenger and kill them. Driving in any other situation is a waste since the map is tiny anyway.

You actually have to hunt for any bits of additional story in a game that prides itself on story telling and that's also pretty weak.

Shooting mechanics are pretty awful thanks to the sticky aim assist. I haven't really looked for a way to turn it off but the default setting is downright abysmal.

Having to hold a bunch of buttons to do the CQC interrogations is a similar stupid mechanic.

I have other gripes but I'll leave it at that. The graphics are pretty impressive, animations are smooth, and the controls are for the most part responsive. The cutscenes being at 60fps is a bold but ultimately worthwhile design decision as well. I did like the set up at the end of the main mission for The Phantom Pain but that game better be MASSIVE. Not paying for another tiny game, discounted or not, and I don't trust a word Kojima says about the game anymore. He's the Japanese Peter Molyneux.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
I had to get both US and JP versions due to censorship and crummy dubbing but between both games I've clocked in 10+ hours. There's just so many ways to take on each mission and I'm always discovering new ways to goof off. Honestly the last time I had this much fun with MGS was with 2 way back in 2001. That game has aged terribly though. It's very hard to play the old MGS games after spending time with GZ.

Worth noting I played the PS3 version... The only real negative aside from the lack of a boss fight or satisfying ending is the framerate. During gameplay it's not usually bad but the cutscenes are choppy. I'll definitely be getting a PS4 for PP
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
I really liked GZ. It's got almost no story to it upfront but what it does have has a huge impact on where it is coming from (Peace Walker) and how it leads into Phantom Pain. After playing PW I was sold on Paz being dead, the reveal that Paz was alive kinda blew me away. There are probably a lot more things to it with the Cassette tapes (haven't taken the time to find them all yet) but with the few I have found they really represent what Kojima has done in past MG games with some very impressive setup and fakeouts.

There are other story elements that were in GZ that I REALLY want to theorize about (mostly dealing with how we might get a MGS1/4 retake in PP) but I will be nice and not say a damn thing.

The biggest gripes I have with it's system is that outside of Reflex you get absolutely no time to avoid an Alert if you aren't at least 50 meters away from an NPC and as soon as they are in it you are not safe anywhere until you climb under the nearest building (slight exaggeration and coming from a guy who has played all MGS games minus Ac!d1/2 on the hardest difficulties many times). Also, unlike past MGS games enemies infinitely spawn in Alert Mode when you have been found rater than having a finite amount (I had an entire army spawn in my scope while I was trying to snipe someone).

@CyberEvil There is an option for sticky/assist. It's somewhere in options/controls, turned that shit off immediately. That kind of stuff ruins headshots way too easily.

Driving is pointless in GZ. I completely agree with that. Rescue Paz. "Get in the car." Get in car. Drive ten feet. Get out of car. Open Gate. See LAV. "Screw this we are walking."
But from the PP trailer where the world is much larger it will more than likely be more useful rather than when you almost need to spin your camera in circles all the time to make sure nobody will find you.

CQC. It's improved since PW/MGS4 but is a bit of a mess. Corner CQC is probably the best addition so far, there is nothing like grabbing someone and throwing them headfirst into the wall/crate you are standing right next to. I can't find the timing to do the CQC Holdup though (CQC then press L1/LB to steal weapons and hold people up). And "running" CQC (basically not grabbing or striking) just looks awkward, I push you and you get knocked out, just roll with it. I still greatly prefer the MGS3 CQC system but pressure button controls are almost nonexistent in PS3/4 and XBox360/One so I can almost understand why there needs to be so many buttons just to get some information out of somebody (rather than just pressing R3). Some options in CQC are gone (classic neck breaks and some of Old Snakes CQC options) which kind of disappointing.

If you guys have the means download the MGSGZ app for whatever smart device you have (PS3/4 and Xbox One have app access on Android and iPod/Phones. 360 needs that Looking Glass thing). It's a simple setup but you can have the entire Camp Omega map presented to you at all times and constantly up to date (within a half a second is my experience) with enemies you have tagged, information points (armory locations you interrogated for), tagged allies, and anything you can do with the in game iDroid you can do with the app while in a mission. Play music, set waypoints, play cassettes, order in a helicopter (including setting it's music on the fly), as well as having basic Zoom In/Out features. It also includes map modes to see where people have been found most, died most, had the most combat, and just have a simple satellite picture of the map. It's a great addition and I hope there is something along the lines for it for Phantom Pain.

I will be buying a PS4 for PP (and repurchasing GZ for it as well) if I haven't bought one by the time it is released.
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
I won't be buying the game at launch. I was disappointed even more than I thought I would be by the package. It was a demo sold at a ridiculous price. I refuse to buy this game at full retail. Didn't even have any cool cutscenes to soften the blow like MGS4 had.
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
Guessing you liked that? I really couldn't stand how weird it was for seemingly no reason. The stabbing thing that kept popping up in the trailer, smearing ashes on his face, no explanation of anything going on...

I just hate Kojima's style of storytelling. After Ground Zeroes I likely won't touch Phantom Pain at launch anyway so I went in expecting to dislike it. Wasn't surprised.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
It's a fanboy thing and probably the only game series I will ever be a ridiculous fanboy of. I enjoy the way Kojima tells story despite how really odd it is to try and piece things together outside of game lore until things are revealed (like the Diamond Dogs origination). The way he likes to do things is throw a very basic understanding of what the hell is going on and reveal more connections at a later time (like now with the return of MG Zeke, something I picked up on with GZ almost immediately). I saw a few other things but am just gonna mull over them for a bit.

Edit: And I thought "Coming 1984" was kinda funny. At least we know the year it takes place.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Finally played ground zeroes, and while I had fun, its more splinter cell than metal gear.

In fact there's virtually nothing Metal Gear about 5
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
Finally played ground zeroes, and while I had fun, its more splinter cell than metal gear.

In fact there's virtually nothing Metal Gear about 5
YOu must of accidentally played the wrong game, MGSV is everything Metal Gear... there's nothing Splinter Cell about it at all apart from tagging and that was in Peace Walker.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
YOu must of accidentally played the wrong game, MGSV is everything Metal Gear... there's nothing Splinter Cell about it at all apart from tagging and that was in Peace Walker.
Oh really?
Tell me how this is "everything metal gear" despite removing all metal gear elements.

Honestly Rising is truer to metal gear than this, and that's an action game.

Where's the humor
Where's the radio conversations
Where's the Intel team
Where's the environmental hazards
Where's the bosses
Where's the items
Where's David hayter
Why can't you go inside any of the buildings
Where's the unlockable s
Where's the easter eggs
Where's my fucking cardboard box
Where's the containers to stash bodies


I could keep going but the point is rather than a free roam metal gear, it feels like a free roam splinter cell. There are virtually no metal gear elements present in this game.


Now all that said I still have fun playing it.
 
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
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