Nioh General Discussion

Fiend Busa

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How's the game guys?

Last time I played was before the levelling adjustment, is there any way I can catch up on what's changed since?

Thanks
 

Brute

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Good stuff, DB.

Also, I feel like the Hidden Teahouse guy is always asking for rifles every single time I speak with him. Does that ever change?
 

just_me

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Last time I played was before the levelling adjustment, is there any way I can catch up on what's changed since?

Since the patch notes aren't that bad as a general overview, I'd start with them. I think I linked most of them since the first DLC, but a quick search on reddit yields better results. For further clarification just ask something specific I guess.

Also, I feel like the Hidden Teahouse guy is always asking for rifles every single time I speak with him. Does that ever change?

Depends on your clan. The weekly special reward is always the same with the same requirements, though unique for each clan (e.g. Todo is Heavy armor to get Raven Tengu Tokkos, Shima is Armor of the Exceptional pieces for Writhing Tongues). The daily special rewards also seem to be on a fixed rotation for every clan. I think there is some overlap between factions, but I don't really pay attention. I know that one clan has Umbracite as a daily reward and Todo certainly does not… looks like they are actively using the clans rewards for balancing.
 

DestructionBomb

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Has there been any word of smithing text for that Dragon blue helmet that was the rave for about a month? or any other missing helms that wasn't available before? I remember reading posts that people would kill themselves at early stages for others to get that stuff like that. Just not a big fan of getting it as loot when it turns out to be a helm with terrible traits on it.
 

Brute

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Depends on your clan. The weekly special reward is always the same with the same requirements, though unique for each clan (e.g. Todo is Heavy armor to get Raven Tengu Tokkos, Shima is Armor of the Exceptional pieces for Writhing Tongues). The daily special rewards also seem to be on a fixed rotation for every clan. I think there is some overlap between factions, but I don't really pay attention. I know that one clan has Umbracite as a daily reward and Todo certainly does not… looks like they are actively using the clans rewards for balancing.
Oh. Well that's annoying. I'm Shimazu and that one has "turn in rifles for gold" on a perpetual loop.
 

just_me

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Has there been any word of smithing text for that Dragon blue helmet that was the rave for about a month? or any other missing helms that wasn't available before? I remember reading posts that people would kill themselves at early stages for others to get that stuff like that. Just not a big fan of getting it as loot when it turns out to be a helm with terrible traits on it.

Well that one was a promo item. I doubt the general public will get a smithing text for those, since they never made the pre-order sets available either. Various Kawari Kabuto primarily from Dev placed revenants still don't seem to have smithing texts, though since the newest DLC2 has a Revenant that can drop texts (for the Tatsuke-style canon/rifle), maybe this is true for others as well. But given that no one reported any findings, that seems unlikely. (edit: too many smithing texts!)

The whole blacksmith stuff became quite a bit more user friendly over time, but that's an area still somewhat lacking… I'd be nice if they could at least show, if a certain text exists. E.g. once you found an item and it can be crafted, it shows up in the forging list, but is greyed out (like locked items or something), with a message “smithing text missing/not enough Kagutsuchi Magatama”.
 
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DestructionBomb

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Alright so I need a rundown on the PvP mode. I'm at AAA on skill PvP and decided to try Strength PvP (it's the one where it looks like gear traits and builds is allowed), and boy...I can't even pass B+. I didn't expect builds to be a huge priority lol, I ran into a guy where I could barely drain his health and the battle took so long that it ended up in a draw twice. What sort of builds I should be looking for via PvP? I also ran into some dude where he kept his protection talisman for a long while like it was nothing lol.

I haven't gotten 2vs 2 yet. Tried to host one or join one but nothing happened. One just took too long to get a 4th person.
 

just_me

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I'd just play the Skill mode if you want to PvP, I'm almost certain they introduced this mode so they no longer have to try to balance the normal PvP mode. Futile attempt anyway, too many variables and min/max potential to ever get it right (well and the issue that everyone thinks that whatever garbage they come up with should be viable…)

Not sure what's popular in Strength PvP these days… for a while everyone complained about auto-aim, pierce guard, rapid fire bow builds, or some 99 Spirit + Extraction + Pleiades LW stuff. If you face someone with massive Dmg reduction it's probably some sort of Tatenashi and General of Kigetsu Mix with self inflicted status ailments, same with the Protection thing I think. Strength PvP is more or less get to the max Level and have BiS gear… go big, or go home I guess.

I hope they learn from this and make a character based PvP mode with set item/skill load outs for each char next time… that's “only” as hard to balance as a standard fighting game!
 
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DestructionBomb

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I've been using the Grace of Tsukuyomi set and I gotta say that it's a blast using them.

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Nioh_20170820035905.png

Nioh_20170820035911.png


I have it complete but been trying to get bow/rifle/cannon for it so that I can use other pieces to short combine it (want to get a Kingo piece attached so that I can get the final blow damage percentage when I lift them up with the tortoise spirit). Grace of Tsukuyomi replenishes 30% of your Omnyo magic/items every time you are done using a living spirit+along my entire gear has unlimited Onmyo for 55% or so. You can run through a whole stage without running out at all.
 
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Brute

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What's with the item coloring? I've never seen that shade or green or whatever the other items are.
 

DestructionBomb

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What's with the item coloring? I've never seen that shade or green or whatever the other items are.

Within the game settings there is an option to change your rarity color. I play on a monitor and yet for whatever reason the ethereal drops look too closely to that of the hard yellows at times (for me that is) so I changed it a bit. It should be on Basic Game Settings and you just have to scroll all the way down to Rarity color pattern and boom jackpot.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Grace of Tsukuyomi, seriously this is pretty fun, you could skip to boss if you want @Brute @just_me


Hopefully I find rifles with Tsukuyomi to replace some gear parts to add others.
 
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just_me

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You even have the headgear with cast speed up, nice!
Damage is… not that great XD If you can do without the Unlimited Onmyo from Hi-Nezumi (you still have like 30% without the spirit, right?), you are probably better of with Tengen Kujaku as primary due to the +29% Elemental Damage, though Tengen is also slow to charge… which also reduces the risk of running dry. Also those Attack Damage X2 buffs work for Onmyo as well, might be able to get some big numbers this way.

Ethereal ranged weapons are pretty hard to get, not enough high quality enemies, or loot spots with such gear. I have hundreds of ethereal items, but only 7 bows and 9 or so hand cannons (and none with the Grace bonus I'd currently use). If you really want to fill those ranged slots farming for rifles is the best option. I used this method in One-Eyed Dragon's Castle:


(use Moment/Earth folding Talisman though and you don't have to pray at the shrine, if you reset with any of those items)

Was pretty boring obviously, but it's bearable if you listen to a podcast, or an audio book. And I have 2 of each (at least), so I probably don't have to do this again.
 
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Brute

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Games shouldn't strive to have hours of boredom on end. TN really goofed, IMO, when it comes to the loot/customization system. I realize it is intended to create longevity and extend the lifespan of the game, but I would much rather simply replay the game from the start trying out different builds that I can construct manually than farming for countless hours to get one character a decent build, at which point I'm so damn exhausted that I'm not at all excited to restart that process for a new build.
 

DestructionBomb

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You even have the headgear with cast speed up, nice!
Damage is… not that great XD If you can do without the Unlimited Onmyo from Hi-Nezumi (you still have like 30% without the spirit, right?), you are probably better of with Tengen Kujaku as primary due to the +29% Elemental Damage, though Tengen is also slow to charge… which also reduces the risk of running dry. Also those Attack Damage X2 buffs work for Onmyo as well, might be able to get some big numbers this way.

Ethereal ranged weapons are pretty hard to get, not enough high quality enemies, or loot spots with such gear. I have hundreds of ethereal items, but only 7 bows and 9 or so hand cannons (and none with the Grace bonus I'd currently use). If you really want to fill those ranged slots farming for rifles is the best option. I used this method in One-Eyed Dragon's Castle:


(use Moment/Earth folding Talisman though and you don't have to pray at the shrine, if you reset with any of those items)

Was pretty boring obviously, but it's bearable if you listen to a podcast, or an audio book. And I have 2 of each (at least), so I probably don't have to do this again.

I never knew that was an actual thing. So wait, is it based on actual loot systematic changes? I always thought that loot is auto-generated via an enemy or items laying on the ground/chest and randomly generated via per stage. I never knew that a dead corpse will repeat the same item drops if you teleport or die back, let alone being an actual thing. So I take it that you have to keep doing it until it hits Ethereal?

Oh man, RNG is going to be a goddamn drag if that's the case. I may not even get Tsukuyomi on the first try, which will suck even more if I get something else entirely versus one item. That stuff does kill motivation, not going to lie.
 

just_me

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Well the loot systems roughly works like this:
Enemies drop random stuff from their respective drop tables, while Equipment/Item Droprate effects the amount and Luck the quality. Drops can be biased in favor of certain items in the table e.g. bosses drop their set, even to the point where the drop is guaranteed (e.g. Ganryu always seems to drop a Monohoshizao)

Drops from corpses seem to be semi-fixed. Consumables are 100% fixed and Equipment to varying degree, depending on the spot. A spot could drop any Equipment, or always a Weapon, or always a Melee Weapon, or always a Sword. Not sure if there are spots that always drop a specific items though, I think there is one that always drops Tatsuke-style Matchlocks in DLC2 Main Mission 1, WotSam. The spot in the video always drops a ranged weapon and footwear. Drop rate increase has no effect, but Luck might have… not sure tbh.

You can reroll the loot once by not taking anything and resetting the level (either pray at a shrine, die, teleport back etc.), apparently you can reset a second time by taking the item you don't want… but that didn't work for me. There are also a bunch of chests in Scion of Virtue that reset every time, as long as you don't take anything. Hard to tell if the resetting is really supposed to be that way, or if it's an exploit and the loot is supposed to be set on level entry (however all that this effectively does is add one layer of inconvenience)

Finally enemies and loot spots seem to have some sort of base quality value, means some enemies are more likely to drop high quality loot and the same is true for spots. E.g. the spot in the video will never drop anything less than divine afaik.

edit:
Guess this is worth mentioning too. At least weapon drops from enemies and loot spots seem to drop the weapons you have equipped more often. Means if you have say a Katana and Spear equipped you will find more Swords and Speards, compared to other weapons. If you change to something else, say Odachi and Axe you will start finding more of those and less Swords and Spears. Not sure about the exact details, if the chances change as soon as you switch gear, you reset at a shrine, or if this is set as soon, as you start the mission. Don't think it applies to armor, but might apply to ranged weapons (though this is hard to tell, since they are far less common to begin with)

All loot systems with randomized gear are prone to grinding, no? And I don't think Nioh is particularly bad in that regard. You can either just play normally and get what you want eventually, or you try to force your luck and opt for something more efficient, but boring…
You never have to grind to make progress and barely if you want to make a reasonable build. Only heavy min/maxing will get pretty tedious, but the game is not balanced around properly optimized builds at all… even in WotW optimized builds will kill Bosses in seconds, and if your run one of those Futsunushi Iai builds the Damage output is probably high enough to one shot bosses on the (potential) next difficulty. Grinding usually only makes sense, if you cleared all available content already and there is nothing left to do anyway. Even then it depends on what you want “I want an Grace of X Odachi” is not too bad, but “I want a Susano Karakawa armor with +500 life and inheritable”… well Good luck lol

I'm not really a fan of highly randomized loot systems, but I think it works better for this game than Dark Souls' approach, or say the Witcher 3 (where you have a bunch of randomized trash and a few fixed sets that are actually useable)

Still some design choices kinda backfired in practice… like inheritance. It's more annoying than helpful in many cases and inheriting affixes on armor pieces where they do not belong, should obviously not be a thing (and just caused balance issues), pretty sure that was an oversight, since you couldn't inherit on armor before divines, but fixing this will make people salty XD Similar issue with the “7 slot weapons” where you get 5 rolls without inheritable and thus can add a 6th modifiable stat through inheritance (and you need one fixed stat to fill all slots)

“Star affixes” also didn't work as intended I guess. The idea was probably to generate more unique loot, but in practice just made some people grind for the Unicorn piece of gear (while complaining about it). The random fixed Ethereal set bonuses are basically the same thing, though I think they will add something in the next DLC to create/modify Ethereals.
 
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just_me

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oh… nice!

That's faster than I expected, thought they'd announce the release of the DLC at the upcoming TGS and it's like 2 weeks from there, but I guess they will do the usual gameplay stream + trailer on stage instead.

Sounds like they did implement some sort of Horde/Bloody Palace/Eternal Legend type of mode with The Abyss (probably instead of a new difficulty), which again is something players have been asking for.

Also at least 2 new enemy designs… that's more than last time! Though no new weapon shown so far…

ss_PSBlog02.jpg


unless that's not a spear on William's back.
 
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