Nioh General Discussion

Brute

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Curious if he drops anything too besides the Inferno ninpo. Would of liked the Dragon Sword and gear even if traits sucks, will probably refashion gear.
His Kusari-Gama seems to be modeled after the Vigoorian Flail from NG: Black, as well.

Really hoping for a Dragon Sword weapon.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

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Ahh so it's not actually Ryu but an ancestor from his clan? Makes sense, guess they either couldn't get Hideyuki Hori for actual Busa or didn't want to go the time travel route.

Still, its a cool cameo.
 

just_me

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Even the patch notes are early for the final DLC:
http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/nioh/update.html
only Japanese for now though.

Random stuff I could understand and found interesting:
  • Final Difficulty is unsurprisingly called Way of the Nioh, seems like another round of cap increases like before
  • Abyss mode is available if you bought one or more DLCs and is post game content
    • Some special loot mechanics for this mode, but I don't quite get it…
  • There is a Maria transformation, no “Mysterious Ninja”, or Yodogimi transform though
  • New grace set bonuses?
  • New skills for old weapons!
  • Additional item shortcuts are bought at the Blacksmith (for Prestige points I assume)
  • The Buffs Attack Damage X2 and Nullify Damage were nerfed (rightfully so), Nullify now just eats a single attack and the Power of the Attack Damage Buff depends on the action that triggered it (so Evasion/Dash Attack is probably a low increase, while Moonlit Snow X3 and Purification are still high)
  • Whetstones can now cleanse Weaken Melee and Nikawa Glue the various Weaken Armor effects
  • The damage of Tiger Sprint increases the longer you run
  • Equipment Lightness Dmg Bonus is better now (either caps at 10 and not 0 weight, or increased below 10 weight… not sure)
  • You can now get Ethereals as mission rewards (in Wise and above)
  • The Talisman that removes buffs now works on Bosses/Reds though only temporarily (obviously only relevant for WotD and above)
  • Adjusted the Damage of Namahage… I assume that means they will do less damage now.
 
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Brute

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  • Final Difficulty is unsurprisingly called Way of the Nioh, seems like another round of cap increases like before
Does this mean I have to grind through the remainder of the WotW missions I skipped, like Return of the Gourd? I fucking hate those missions.

  • There is a Maria transformation, no “Mysterious Ninja”, or Yodogimi transform though
Boo.

  • The Buffs Attack Damage X2 and Nullify Damage were nerfed (rightfully so), Nullify now just eats a single attack and the Power of the Attack Damage Buff depends on the action that triggered it (so Evasion/Dash Attack is probably a low increase, while Moonlit Snow X3 and Purification are still high)
I agree that Nullify Damage was overpowered, but it was one of those things that I was okay with because the balancing on later difficulties got so wonky. Most of the challenging sections on WotW involve a red enemy that strips everything off in a single hit anyway.

  • The Talisman that removes buffs now works on Bosses/Reds though only temporarily (obviously only relevant for WotD and above)
Should remove them permanently.

  • Adjusted the Damage of Namahage… I assume that means they will do less damage now.
The issue with the Namahage isn't their damage output; it's their God of Wind-level tracking in conjunction with absurd hitbox detection on certain attacks. Certain attacks are nearly useless (the grab) while others are nearly impossible to punish. The long, delayed attack strings can be rough, but I wouldn't mind it if their strongest attacks allowed a good window for serious punishment with all weapon types. Instead, I feel like I'm stuck being a perpetual ki rapist trying to strong-counter hit their attacks as they initiate them to deplete their ki, as it's the only respectable way to deal damage aside from surprise ganking them from behind.
 

Sotherius

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Ok.... This might sound weird, but i don't want the dragon sword as a weapon or weapon skin.

The whole point of the sword is that only someone from the dragon lineage can wield it.

Now, about Dragon Ninja transformation (i'll keep calling him that way, even more now that we know he isn't ryu), i'm down for it, but it seems that will be a no go.

When i think that i still haven't even played through NG+ i get kinda sad. Game is super fun, but all the loot managing and status changes are getting annoying.
 

DestructionBomb

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Ok.... This might sound weird, but i don't want the dragon sword as a weapon or weapon skin.

The whole point of the sword is that only someone from the dragon lineage can wield it.

It's just a guest appearance though. The lore shouldn't apply anymore at this point so don't see why not on wanting it as a weapon drop/skin along with the attire.
 

Brute

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Ok.... This might sound weird, but i don't want the dragon sword as a weapon or weapon skin.

The whole point of the sword is that only someone from the dragon lineage can wield it.
As a skin, it would not be lore-breaking at all. Muramasa merely forges a katana that cosmetically looks like the Dragon Sword but doesn't have the same mystical qualities attached.
 

DestructionBomb

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As a skin, it would not be lore-breaking at all. Muramasa merely forges a katana that cosmetically looks like the Dragon Sword but doesn't have the same mystical qualities attached.

Isn't it considered just a guest appearance regardless? I was reading through JPN translators off FB and UprisingJC so it's the feedback I was getting. That's a good explanation to get a skin or attire for refashion either way so I'll take it.
 

just_me

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Does this mean I have to grind through the remainder of the WotW missions I skipped, like Return of the Gourd? I fucking hate those missions.

Don't think so. In Strong and above the next difficulty unlocks alongside the final batch of missions afaik. So if you already unlocked the 1.06 and DLC missions the difficulty should unlock once the patch is out.

I agree that Nullify Damage was overpowered, but it was one of those things that I was okay with because the balancing on later difficulties got so wonky. Most of the challenging sections on WotW involve a red enemy that strips everything off in a single hit anyway.

I think it was too much.
Stacking the different dash attack buffs including Nullify Damage + Hermit was basically “god mode” for anything but the few enemies that can cleanse buffs, now it's at least somewhat less effective and has a bit more risk attached to it. I'd nerf the Nullify down to protection, with shield strength determined by the trigger.

I actually think the balancing is mostly fine, you are more or less required to use Onymo and Ninjutsu in WotStrong and above and WotW does require some reasonable, but not extreme stat stacking, to get through most of the content comfortably. Due to the high min/max potential there will always be issues… balance around “pick up gear” + pure melee and min/maxed players will complain everything is too easy (I mean you can still one-shot everything in WotW), balance around “proper” builds and it becomes too hard for… well the rest. They certainly could have done worse.

Should remove them permanently.

Seems too strong if it removes all at once and is permanent. I'd probably go for “cleanse half the buffs permanently (and at least 2)”, so you need 2 casts for WotD and 3 for Wise. I'd actually implement the enemy buff the same way, with a fixed priority list, so you know which of your buffs get removed first.

Looking over the patch notes again… no listed changes for Tonfa. That's unexpected, since most people didn't seem to like them too much (though the only metric on reddit is “can it one-shot this boss”).

Mhm... I guess Nioh will reach it's end of life phase once the Complete Edition is out (maybe one more patch to fix issues of that version), was hoping for a Sigma/Black/Ultimate style version with some new stuff instead. Well maybe 1-2 years down the line, since I doubt Nioh 2 will be anytime soon. A few more regular enemies across the NG campaign, streamline some systems and character based PvP and this would be great…
 

Brute

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Don't think so. In Strong and above the next difficulty unlocks alongside the final batch of missions afaik. So if you already unlocked the 1.06 and DLC missions the difficulty should unlock once the patch is out.
Nice.

I think it was too much.
Stacking the different dash attack buffs including Nullify Damage + Hermit was basically “god mode” for anything but the few enemies that can cleanse buffs, now it's at least somewhat less effective and has a bit more risk attached to it. I'd nerf the Nullify down to protection, with shield strength determined by the trigger.

I actually think the balancing is mostly fine, you are more or less required to use Onymo and Ninjutsu in WotStrong and above and WotW does require some reasonable, but not extreme stat stacking, to get through most of the content comfortably. Due to the high min/max potential there will always be issues… balance around “pick up gear” + pure melee and min/maxed players will complain everything is too easy (I mean you can still one-shot everything in WotW), balance around “proper” builds and it becomes too hard for… well the rest. They certainly could have done worse.
That's the problem. It requires stat stacking primarily through equipment, but the equipment system is garbage. I wouldn't mind upgrading gear over a long period of time, but not when the gear you want to upgrade won't even drop. And then when you finally get a decent build, they introduce a new item rarity and make you start all over again.

Maybe some people like playing Nioh as a glorified Farming Simulator, but I find that Nioh is strongest as a hack'n'slash. Shuriken spamming is a borefest. Omnyo spamming is a borefest. But they're powerful, so TN apparently tries to make the game's difficulty in consideration of those. But they still fail even at that. I just saw a guy blow through Demon King Revelaed on WotW defeating every boss in well under a minute by doing nothing but shuriken spam. So these difficulties aren't balanced for the broken shit and they're not balanced for the regular game mechanics, either. It's this ugly middle ground that's frankly not much fun at all no matter what way I approach it.

"But if you want to use melee you can spam the just guard parry and Daiba-Washi + Iao strike ad infinitum."
Yes. Very exciting. I love how all of the extensive and engaging gameplay mechanics become irrelevant clutter in the end-game.

Ideally, I'd like the game to be primarily reliant on active gameplay, with stats/equipment taking a significant backseat and really only influencing how you wish to approach the former aspect of the game. At present, the game is primarily reliant on stats/equipment with complete amateurs being able to cheese through the tougher challenges because they farmed for ten weeks straight to earn the blessing of RNGesus. And quite frankly, it sucks.

Seems too strong if it removes all at once and is permanent.
That's what I thought at first, too. Then realized that about 20 enemies have that ability in every level, and I re-evaluated what "too strong" meant.
 

CyberEvil

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Ok.... This might sound weird, but i don't want the dragon sword as a weapon or weapon skin.

The whole point of the sword is that only someone from the dragon lineage can wield it.

Now, about Dragon Ninja transformation (i'll keep calling him that way, even more now that we know he isn't ryu), i'm down for it, but it seems that will be a no go.

When i think that i still haven't even played through NG+ i get kinda sad. Game is super fun, but all the loot managing and status changes are getting annoying.
Anyone can wield it. Only a proper descendant can wield the True Dragon Sword.

Edit: To clarify, there is nothing canonical that prevents someone else from picking it up and using it. The True Dragon Sword could actually kill someone that didn't have the proper lineage.
 

Sotherius

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Anyone can wield it. Only a proper descendant can wield the True Dragon Sword.

I honestly think the regular dragon sword needs the dragon lineage blood, that was the whole reason they needed ryu's blood sample to infuse on the little girl giant goddess thing in ng3re. (and she was holding the regular dragon sword, since the Dragon eye was with momiji when the alchemists got the sword from ryu).

And yeah, i know, ng3re, but it is still a canon game.
 

just_me

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@Brute
I agree that they totally went overboard with all the stats and thus the power gap between builds can become way too large. There are just too many sources of bonus damage and you can have too many stat modifiers up at once. But that's not just the rollable affixes, it's also the passives from skill trees, clans, prestige points and so on. It doesn't take much to make something decent though.

Every properly optimized post-end-game (or maybe end-end-game?) build is still total overkill and can finish most of the bosses in a few hits even if the build idea itself isn't that good (anything with a Tonfa for instance…). In terms raw damage potential Kunai builds don't stick out that much in WotW, but they are easy to assemble and of course… not exactly hard to use. Though I think with the next difficulty and the removal of Attack Dmg X2 the build is probably dead at least for high end stuff, since the Dmg cap is independent of the gear level.

I still don't think you need much (if any) grinding to comfortably get through most of WotW… use a Yasakani, reasonably combine 2 sets, roll your weapon with CTA, CCD and Fam Dmg A, your ranged with Agility/Equipment Dmg bonus A and inherit attack on your armor pieces… good enough and you can still play normally and imo that's what TN aimed for while balancing the content in WotW, which seems fair…
Used the build I posted for my playthrough and replaced some pieces with useful Ethereals as I found them and that was fine. Wasn't faceroll easy, but not all that challenging either… only Two in the Shadows, Iga Style and The Sparrow flies again were a pain, should have replaced some pieces with Kigetsu earlier on, but whatever.

Also most builds do split the damage multiplier between Onmyo/GS buffs and gear fairly evenly, you get a Dmg multiplier of ~4 from buffs and clan and around the same from gear, well and then the Attack Dmg X2 cherry on top…

Overall I think Ethereals are overrated… if you are not going for a Grace set you only need Weapon and gloves for the OP X2 bonuses, if you don't want that you don't need any at all and can keep your WotD stuff.
 

DestructionBomb

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I was expecting NiOh to be less build heavy when it was first announced and revealed. Least to the idea of 'builds', there was more focus to the gameplay and conditioning to use items when given in the early parts of the game. Later down the road midway, dynamics and conditioning has changed and seems more relaxed than heavy tolerance. Will admit, but some points you don't feel overwhelmed as much since people will find ways to eliminate the odds by having sets and fixed ratio on stats.

I was hoping in the future that they can provide more unique attack placements and not too heavy on patterns. Something like doing specific horizontal attacks when an enemy is lunging for a high vertical or something. Silly idea I know, but you can practically cheese the game with a single attack pattern if you have your base damage reasonable enough to do the job. Heck, I cheesed some battles like that, but it was more or less that the situation has changes where other moves (or weapons) don't seem as effective. I still find the Axe incredibly useless despite seeing some cool combinations, but yet other weapons can do just the same but more relaxed and easier to use. Not even kidding, 80% of videos I've seen is having a Kusari Gama spinning around on bosses but who am I to judge really since they bought the game and the priority is given to them.

EDIT: Besides Namahages of course in terms of overwhelm, fuck Namahages with those incredibly weird delays and reasonable no staggers. However they do keep me in suspense and to be cautious on not getting hit so I can't totally hate them for it.
 
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Brute

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Using an ethereal, Kaikunigo (+25) with Change to Attack Dexterity A+ (99 Heart & Dexterity), Otani takes around 100 mid-stance strikes to kill. In contrast, it takes two of lightning-fast, auto-tracking, sweepy attacks for him to kill me using a full set of divine Unrivaled Warrior (+25) armor (which, as of Dragon in the North, was the heavy armor set that provided the highest base defensive multiplier in the game). Stat balancing is not so pivotal when you're fighting well-designed enemies (Muneshige, Hino-Enma, most yokai, etc.), but when the bullshit comes out to play, it's no fun.
 
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