Please buff Marie Rose

[Lulu]

Marie Rose's Special Side Step doesn't need to be Nerfed.... its a giant throbbing pain in the Ass but it isn't as powerful as it initially seems. I recently found out it doesn't execute instantly... or atleast all its properties don't execute instantly, She can get Caught by throws and basic Tracking moved if you catch her hopping right at the Beginning.

Still though I have to agree with @Rikuto

I have an issue with any move that completely ignores the structured systems of the game. It's a stepping move that bypasses the concept of tracking in many cases, but not all... unless the timing is perfect. It is inconsistent, funky, and has no real downside. Tracking attacks need to track. It has to adhere to the systems it is supposedly shackled to.

Rules must be consistent.... other wise whats the Point.

And Marie Rose is not the only one Either.... them VF Characters have some pretty nasty secret tools.

 

[bluebanana]

I have an issue with any move that completely ignores the structured systems of the game. It's a stepping move that bypasses the concept of tracking in many cases, but not all... unless the timing is perfect. It is inconsistent, funky, and has no real downside. Tracking attacks need to track. It has to adhere to the systems it is supposedly shackled to.

Its just my personal opinion but if you took away the step-hop she would most likely be a lower-mid tier character who could use some minor buffs. With the step-hop though, she can be EXTREMELY obnoxious in certain matchups to the point that its just abusable with no real hard counter even with a perfect read.

I mean people get mad about my tank roll but the roll has NOTHING on the hop.

Wait a minute....you wouldn't happen to be the same Rikuto who played against Xcalibur Bladez?

Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Never mind

 

[KasumiLover]

Wait a minute....you wouldn't happen to be the same Rikuto who played against Xcalibur Bladez?

Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Never mind lol.

Nope, that is indeed the one and only @Rikuto . Really cool guy, his streams have me laughing.

 

[KING JAIMY]

No safe attacks

PK, 3K, SS K, 4K, 4PK, 9KK, 66K, P+K, 6PP, PPP, 6PK, PP6PK, Rondo K, 6P+K, 66P, BT P+K, 3PK and K are all safe on block or at least semi-safe on block. That's quite a lot considering her moveset is nothing big to write home about. Also, I just wrote these safe moves all from memory. There might even be some more safe moves which I have missed.

No good pokes

Marie has decent pokes at all ranges. 6P, 6P+K, 9P, 9K, 2P, 3P and K at close range. 4PK, 4K, PK, 3K and 1P at mid range. 66K, 9KK and 3H+K at long range.

Low damage outside of strings

Try doing just her simple 46H > BT H+K > BT KKK combo on Hi-Counter and you'll see how much it hurts.

Not a fast character

Her neutral strike speed is okay. i10 P, i12 6P and i14 2P. That's pretty average. I admit it's not the best, but it's good enough to poke out a lot of other characters. Plus, you'll be using your defense a lot more than your offense since that is where your main source of damage comes from. You use your offense like all other defensive characters. The mindset should be: Use your defense to break your opponent's offense and retaliate or follow-up with your own offense.

Honestly, Marie Rose is balanced and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people would agree with me. There is no need to make a balanced character overpowered.

 

[KasumiLover]

PK, 3K, SS K, 4K, 4PK, 9KK, 66K, P+K, 6PP, PPP, 6PK, PP6PK, Rondo K, 6P+K, 66P, BT P+K, 3PK and K are all safe on block or at least semi-safe on block. That's quite a lot considering her moveset is nothing big to write home about. Also, I just wrote these safe moves all from memory. There might even be some more safe moves which I have missed.

Marie has decent pokes at all ranges. 6P, 6P+K, 9P, 9K, 2P, 3P and K at close range. 4PK, 4K, PK, 3K and 1P at mid range. 66K, 9KK and 3H+K at long range.

Try doing just her simple 46H > BT H+K > BT KKK combo on Hi-Counter and you'll see how much it hurts.

Her neutral strike speed is okay. i10 P, i12 6P and i14 2P. That's pretty average. I admit it's not the best, but it's good enough to poke out a lot of other characters. Plus, you'll be using your defense a lot more than your offense since that is where your main source of damage comes from. You use your offense like all other defensive characters. The mindset should be: Use your defense to break your opponent's offense and retaliate or follow-up with your own offense.

Honestly, Marie Rose is balanced and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people would agree with me. There is no need to make a balanced character overpowered.

The only thing that's bad about her is that she's underrated honestly like you said . More players need to be aware that she can be quite dangerous, but unfortunately they look down on her because she's little..

 

[KING JAIMY]

they look down on her because she's little..

I got that reference! XD

 

[WAZAAAAA]

today I fought like 3 Marie Roses in a row
so I was reminded that she can sidestep wake up kicks consistently and pretty much all you throw at her what the actual fuck?

 

[Kirito]

It's not Marie's hop that needs to be nerfed - it's the regular SS that needs to be buffed. Too often I will SS a linear move only to be CH by a linear followup. Tracking in this game is a joke since linear moves retrack all the time.

And to clarify, Minuet is a FSD move, like Christie's Jakeiho. Tracking moves are for regular SS. Move properties are intentionally set that way. The best way to counter Minuet is to use a mid-high circular move. Every character has at least one. Jakeiho and Bayman's tank roll are a whole 'nother issue all together since not all characters have mid-low circular moves (let alone tracking moves) or a low OH.

 

[bluebanana]

Nope, that is indeed the one and only @Rikuto . Really cool guy, his streams have me laughing.

I must say, not to sound like a fanboy.

I feel honored he commented on my post XD

 

[WAZAAAAA]

And to clarify, Minuet is a FSD move, like Christie's Jakeiho.

HOW DO I FSD A WAKE UP KICK?

 

[Lulu]

And to clarify, Minuet is a FSD move, like Christie's Jakeiho.

I don't think Jakeiho is a Free Stepping Maneuver. Generally speaking Regular SideStepping moves appear in Page 3 of the Move Details next to "SideStep Untouchable".... Free Stepping moves don't usually appear in page 3 of the move details. Ofcourse I'm only basing this theory on Sarah's Flamingo /. Which isn't all that different from Sarah's Minuet.... except Sarah's is vulnerable to Slow Throws, Offensive Holds and Tracking Moves.

Either way.... Christie can be caught by tracking mids with relatively little trouble.

 

[tokiopewpew]

It's not Marie's hop that needs to be nerfed - it's the regular SS that needs to be buffed. Too often I will SS a linear move only to be CH by a linear followup. Tracking in this game is a joke since linear moves retrack all the time.
...
Tracking moves are for regular SS.

That's what (delayable) follow-ups are for too. A regular SS is meant to evade only one linear attack. If you do not want to get hit by linear follow-ups, you need to sidestep twice. That means you still have to respect a string, even if all of its moves are linear. Eliot is a good example for that - sidestepping him is easier said than done.

It also depends what kind of regular SS attack you use for retaliation. All of them have an execution time too and kicks are usually slower than punches, therefore it can happen legally that you will get CH when trying to do the former between two fast linear punches.

 

[Brute]

Moved this week-old thread to the Marie Rose subsection.

I must say, not to sound like a fanboy.
I feel honored he commented on my post XD

Rikuto is the best combo of brains + game knowledge + game talent you'll find still active in the community. And in this case he's right. The minuet is stupid.

The reason [the minuet is] broken is because of the way that the move "balances" the risk/reward/chance of success. When one move is beating out 99% of options your opponent has, typically that in itself is a problem and a stupid balance decision. But, if it's going to be there, an incredibly high chance of success move should be weighed with a large risk and a low reward. The reward fluctuates but in many cases can open her up for some really nasty guaranteed damage. The risk is minimal, since if she's hit out of it she falls from jump status rather than being thrown into a stun game mix-up. The opponent doesn't get a super reward like an i12 punish throw or anything if (s)he patiently "blocks" the standalone minuet (such as Lei's 3P+K) . Combine this with the fact that it avoids lows, non-tracking mids and highs and numerous tracking mids/highs and you have a move that is absolutely, undeniably broken.
So being a part of the triangle system doesn't automatically excuse a move from being broken. It certainly isn't here.

You can choose to take "broken" as a trigger word and get lost in semantics if you wish. Or you can just get the point.

 

[Qudans]

I guess this thread is more fitting. I hope she gets buffed, since I don't think she is a viable character.
She probably won't though.
My civilized debate in the other thread was pretty much dismissed immediately with believe what you want....so....I dunno....
the other thread:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/marie-rose-combo-and-strategy-thread.4200/page-11

 

[KasumiLover]

I guess this thread is more fitting. I hope she gets buffed, since I don't think she is a viable character.
She probably won't though.
My civilized debate in the other thread was pretty much dismissed immediately with believe what you want....so....I dunno....
the other thread:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/marie-rose-combo-and-strategy-thread.4200/page-11

....Just stop. I thought we were through with this, quit mentioning me already, it's annoying.

 

[Qudans]

....Just stop. I thought we were through with this, quit mentioning me already, it's annoying.

I'm not mentioning you specifically. I merely pointed to the thread so people could see my position without me having to re-type EVERYTHING.

I mean what do you want me to say? You GGPO'd without so much as a hint of a counter argument.
I'm obviously trying to find out why there is disagreement.

So I mean, if I can't get info in that thread then it stands to reason I'm going to ask elsewhere for answers, no?
If I can't get answers from you is it not logical for me to instead try and find someone else who can?

 

[YBNDM]

If Marie Rose was bad, (And if I didn't main her) I would be celebrating it. no?

 

[Qudans]

If Marie Rose was bad, (And if I didn't main her) I would be celebrating it. no?

Ummm, I don't know? Would you be celebrating it?

(And if I didn't main her)
You main Tina though, it says it right there in your profile.....

Like seriously, all I've gotten so far is "No, she's good, you're wrong."
The most developed response was VirtuaKazama's, and even he has her listed as D/ lower tier....so....

 

[YBNDM]

Ummm, I don't know? Would you be celebrating it?

(And if I didn't main her)
You main Tina though, it says it right there in your profile.....

I meant if whoever had a problem with Marie Rose's assumed weakness didn't main her. They would be like "hell yeah! Easy matchup"

 

[Dark-truth]

Some people here are being annoying af though, why do some people always want the last word anyways, I don't think Marie needs a buff, she's fine as she is