Developing strike options to handle WUKs on reaction is something I still need to work on
DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion
- Thread starter iHajinShinobi
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I'm using 66KK4 and 66KKK as a mix up in threshold from now on. It's a true 50/50 guess situation because you have no way of telling whether Ayane finishes the string or not. This will really force a must-hold. I mean, 66KK4 already does that anyway, but 66KKK will not give you any time to make a decision. It's either take the 66KK4 mix up, or take the 66KKK damage and deal with oki (you can nab oki in both scenarios but 66KKK gives you no choice lol).
66KKK wall slams too, so yeah. The fact that I NEVER use 66KKK means that it's going to catch everyone way the fuck off guard.
Another good bit, jab delay jab is very potent for up close neutral poke pressure (both PP and BTPP).
You can delay the second jab up to i17 frames in Front Turn stance, and up to i20 frames in Back Turn stance. You cannot interrupt this with high or mid standing strikes at all, and you cannot side PP in Front Turn stance either, you're counter hit for trying.
Jab delay jab literally makes your jab pressure unpredictable and unseeable because you can't tell the difference between jab free cancel and jab delays.
So couple this with jab free cancels, jab free cancel mix ups, jab BT Throw, P4P (delaying the second hit, also cannot be interrupted by high/mid standing strikes) and 2P. Ayane's CQC game is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hard to read.
NO ONE has caught on to this since I've influenced it. And holding high is the least of my worries because I have full control over how I will poke you up close (people have a difficult time reading me as it is lol).
66KKK wall slams too, so yeah. The fact that I NEVER use 66KKK means that it's going to catch everyone way the fuck off guard.
Another good bit, jab delay jab is very potent for up close neutral poke pressure (both PP and BTPP).
You can delay the second jab up to i17 frames in Front Turn stance, and up to i20 frames in Back Turn stance. You cannot interrupt this with high or mid standing strikes at all, and you cannot side PP in Front Turn stance either, you're counter hit for trying.
Jab delay jab literally makes your jab pressure unpredictable and unseeable because you can't tell the difference between jab free cancel and jab delays.
So couple this with jab free cancels, jab free cancel mix ups, jab BT Throw, P4P (delaying the second hit, also cannot be interrupted by high/mid standing strikes) and 2P. Ayane's CQC game is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally hard to read.
NO ONE has caught on to this since I've influenced it. And holding high is the least of my worries because I have full control over how I will poke you up close (people have a difficult time reading me as it is lol).
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Lol!
I occasionally throw out 66KKK, especially if the opponent is backed into a corner, because it hits majority of the time and serves as a nice ego blow to the opponent lol. The blast back range and wall slam capability is nice too. It's like 236K in the sense that the move looks scrubby so you don't expect a competent Ayane to throw it out. So when you do throw it out, it connects almost all the time, usually to a nice reward.
I can also concur that Ayane's 5P is her best way to set up her offense whether it is blocked or connects IMO. There's practically no risk to throwing the move out whether at close or long range (I love the P4P poke from mid range), and you essentially gain a plethora of follow-up options like iHajin outlined. I love nailing opponents with P~BTH+P, then CHing then with P~BT6P once they start disrespecting Ayane's 5P. Once you start to work in 5P & 2P (Both FT & BT), Ayane's real close range pressure starts and it can fuck up a lot of opponents.
I have been working BT4H+K into my gameplay and at the moment I can say that this move is godlike against WUK's. It destroys both Mid & Low WUK's with a shitload of hit priority. It seriously is now my go to attack to crush WUK's. Don't use it from point blank range though. Anywhere outside point blank range it seems to hit with surprising consistency. The stun on hit is awesome too. <3 BT4H+K.
I occasionally throw out 66KKK, especially if the opponent is backed into a corner, because it hits majority of the time and serves as a nice ego blow to the opponent lol. The blast back range and wall slam capability is nice too. It's like 236K in the sense that the move looks scrubby so you don't expect a competent Ayane to throw it out. So when you do throw it out, it connects almost all the time, usually to a nice reward.
I can also concur that Ayane's 5P is her best way to set up her offense whether it is blocked or connects IMO. There's practically no risk to throwing the move out whether at close or long range (I love the P4P poke from mid range), and you essentially gain a plethora of follow-up options like iHajin outlined. I love nailing opponents with P~BTH+P, then CHing then with P~BT6P once they start disrespecting Ayane's 5P. Once you start to work in 5P & 2P (Both FT & BT), Ayane's real close range pressure starts and it can fuck up a lot of opponents.
I have been working BT4H+K into my gameplay and at the moment I can say that this move is godlike against WUK's. It destroys both Mid & Low WUK's with a shitload of hit priority. It seriously is now my go to attack to crush WUK's. Don't use it from point blank range though. Anywhere outside point blank range it seems to hit with surprising consistency. The stun on hit is awesome too. <3 BT4H+K.
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Never occurred to me, but I think we could a use a thread that'll talk about different ways we can use stage environments as an advantage with Ayane. Nabbing 111 damage as hold bait and throw punishment with the i12 64T should be a pretty common occurrence this time around for us (I've been doing that a lot lately).
Nabbing 130-150+ should be a regular thing too when we're playing on stages with ropes as walls.
I think a thread like this should be a general thread for all character forums, but it's something we should start up here.
Nabbing 130-150+ should be a regular thing too when we're playing on stages with ropes as walls.
I think a thread like this should be a general thread for all character forums, but it's something we should start up here.
An interesting tidbit I'm noticing in the Alpha-152 MU is that she can't really punish moves like Ayane's 236K or Running K that well on block since she lacks a i7 throw, and her i10 throw doesn't seem like a huge threat. She may try to throw you with her i5 neutral throw but you can buffer a throw break for it. In essence, you can YOLO against Alpha a lot more than any other character (as long as you don't throw out something unsafe that leaves you BT'ed).
Alpha does have an i7 frame throw. Being unsafe against her isn't wise at all. Prominent Alpha players like Lopedo and Xcalibur Bladez will throw punish with it. And the timing is not difficult at all.
I wouldn't advise that.
I wouldn't advise that.
So, this may sound kind of iffy to people because my methods are quite different from everyone else's. But I'm influencing a "fire ball" game for neutral control and spacing with Ayane. With BT6K, 3H+K and BT4H+K.
Some explanation;
Daigo (Street Fighter player) uses fireballs as one of his primary tools with Shotos. For poking, neutral spacing, control, testing the waters, and pressure. Since fire balls are an extension of one's self and a range poke, they essentially have 3 different speeds (not counting EX or flame). Fierce is fastest, strong is average, light is slow. All relatively safe on block. Different speeds allow you to change the pace of your fireballs and your fireball pattern(s).
When you are masterful at this as he is, this becomes extremely hard to read and determine what action to make at the exact moment it is happening. This is basically really only being read well (or at all) by another high level or top player of his caliber.
Different speeds of a certain kind of poke allows you to test your opponent's reactions and test out how'll they decide to approach this obstacle you're carefully putting on the screen. A "good" fireball is one that's placed at the right distance and moment your opponent does not have an action completely set up for it at that exact moment. Calculating the distance from which you and your opponent stand will also allow you to decide on the action you want to make, given you're yomi is really good (DP's, Fierce, Heavy, jumping button, etc).
Good positioning and with good fireball use allows you to control the neutral for that moment and a bit more. This is exactly why it's important to know your pokes and to know your ranges, and the ranges of your pokes.
My use for BT6K, 3H+K, and BT4H+K in the neutral;
BT6K is my fierce, 3H+K is my strong, BT4H+K is a light. All 3 are safe, give push back, and give good but varying reward on hit. With BT6K giving the best reward (sit down stun on CH and threshold and it's a frame trap if blocked).
Three primary tools, all mid kicks, can be masked really well because they're all different strike speed. i15, i19, i20 respectively. BT2K is basically being treated as a crouching medium. Jab feints and good movement, along with other good timed pokes make it difficult to read my fireballs.
3H+K being the stem of all three because it can go into BT6K or BT4H+K. BT6K and 3H+K can go into each other, BT4H+K can come in after anything except for BT6K.
3H+K > BT6K or BT4H+K
BT6K > 3H+K
I've been implementing this method for quite some time, and from experience it has been working really well. Furthering my neutral control and footsies.
Some explanation;
Daigo (Street Fighter player) uses fireballs as one of his primary tools with Shotos. For poking, neutral spacing, control, testing the waters, and pressure. Since fire balls are an extension of one's self and a range poke, they essentially have 3 different speeds (not counting EX or flame). Fierce is fastest, strong is average, light is slow. All relatively safe on block. Different speeds allow you to change the pace of your fireballs and your fireball pattern(s).
When you are masterful at this as he is, this becomes extremely hard to read and determine what action to make at the exact moment it is happening. This is basically really only being read well (or at all) by another high level or top player of his caliber.
Different speeds of a certain kind of poke allows you to test your opponent's reactions and test out how'll they decide to approach this obstacle you're carefully putting on the screen. A "good" fireball is one that's placed at the right distance and moment your opponent does not have an action completely set up for it at that exact moment. Calculating the distance from which you and your opponent stand will also allow you to decide on the action you want to make, given you're yomi is really good (DP's, Fierce, Heavy, jumping button, etc).
Good positioning and with good fireball use allows you to control the neutral for that moment and a bit more. This is exactly why it's important to know your pokes and to know your ranges, and the ranges of your pokes.
My use for BT6K, 3H+K, and BT4H+K in the neutral;
BT6K is my fierce, 3H+K is my strong, BT4H+K is a light. All 3 are safe, give push back, and give good but varying reward on hit. With BT6K giving the best reward (sit down stun on CH and threshold and it's a frame trap if blocked).
Three primary tools, all mid kicks, can be masked really well because they're all different strike speed. i15, i19, i20 respectively. BT2K is basically being treated as a crouching medium. Jab feints and good movement, along with other good timed pokes make it difficult to read my fireballs.
3H+K being the stem of all three because it can go into BT6K or BT4H+K. BT6K and 3H+K can go into each other, BT4H+K can come in after anything except for BT6K.
3H+K > BT6K or BT4H+K
BT6K > 3H+K
I've been implementing this method for quite some time, and from experience it has been working really well. Furthering my neutral control and footsies.
lotr9690
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I like about Ayane. You can use "ranged" strategies with her to bait people out and put them in neutral, footsies etc. I've never actually practiced this strategy with Ayane but I will be sure to try it out. I bet it will take them by surprise!
A small heads up that you can punish Christie's 7K with a 4K for a SDS, since throws don't punish it reliably, and pretty much don't reach at all if blocked at tip range. 6T & 236T seem to reach the furthest after blocking 7K, but can still whiff if blocked at tip range. 4K is generally your best bet for punishment. Momiji's 7K is bullshit on the other hand lol. Can't seem to punish it with anything on block despite both moves looking almost identical 
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Christie's 7K is -25 with less pushback, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before awhile back. I don't remember when, or maybe it was on Skype, lol.
Anyway, you can do the samething to Jann Lee when does 4PPP on block because its -18.
Anyway, you can do the samething to Jann Lee when does 4PPP on block because its -18.
Upload a replay so I can see what you're doing?
Solaris_Noid
New Member
Hey all, I made an intro post in here awhile back and since Last Round is out(and I'm currently burnt out from my anime fighters at the moment) now's as good a time as ever to get back into the training grind for this.
Still learning Ayane's neutral, have a bad habit of doing 66KK4 as a pseudo-frametrap, even though I'm sure I read earlier that it's not a good move to abuse(lol netplay), so I'm working on that.
Still learning Ayane's neutral, have a bad habit of doing 66KK4 as a pseudo-frametrap, even though I'm sure I read earlier that it's not a good move to abuse(lol netplay), so I'm working on that.
66KK4 is fine to use if you have the advantage and aren't too far away from your opponent. It works best as a pressure move to maintain your offense when you have the opponent on the defensive. But yeah, it can become a liability if relied on all the time. When neutral poking with Ayane, focus on usages of your 5P jab, 5K, 6P, 6K, 2P and 1P when in close, 3P, 3K, 5K, or 2P when a little further out, and 3H+K and 3P when at a distance. Ayane has a lot of Backturned moves also such as BT5PP, BT6K, BT4H+K, BT2P, BT1P, BT2K, along with some others that are good to incorporate into your arsenal.
From a generic neutral standpoint, you can't go wrong with regular usage of 5P, 2P, BT5PP, BT2P. These are all quick pokes that can keep an opponent locked on the defensive so you can start working in Ayane's strong throws (or CH launching them with BT6P).
From a generic neutral standpoint, you can't go wrong with regular usage of 5P, 2P, BT5PP, BT2P. These are all quick pokes that can keep an opponent locked on the defensive so you can start working in Ayane's strong throws (or CH launching them with BT6P).
After playing at Final Round and going 1-2, I learned a lot about my Ayane. My spacing definitely needs work, because what I noticed that is that I put myself against the wall, which is a BIG no-no in 3D fighters. That being said, I need to work more on my spacing and footsies game, as well as incorporating her expert holds and 64T more frequently in my game plan.
Toi Stori
New Member
My Ayane needs SO much work. Playing online is super frustrating lol. Two problems I've already caught is my mix ups and my defense. I really struggle on opening up my opponents defenses, and often leave myself defenseless in the process. I know Ayane can be a pretty unforgiving character if you use her incorrectly. Then when I'm ON defense/getting rushed, I freeze! Against faster characters like Kasumi or Christie I'm stuck holding the block button and getting kicked off the ground into another combo. Lmao I'm like man.
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