"Promise me, you won't tell anyone" Honoka General Discussion

[Maple]

(I apologize in advance if any of this has already been talked about!)

People have been talking about Honoka's stances, and I got pretty curious about her BT stance, so I looked at the transitions (I learned a thing or two in the process). And well, they're not too good, are they?

Firstly, she has:
- p,p,4,p (The third hit can be blocked and is quite punishable. Would only actually work if you could catch someone off guard.)
- 9 p,p,p (Delayable, and that's probably all there is to it. It's all mid punches, and the string and its variations are just not that good. Not sure why someone would want to use the 9 p (...) string).
- 4 p+k (Obviously a launcher. It's a pretty decent panic move).
- Dokuritso-Ho P+K (Another launcher).
- 2,3,6 H+K (Interesting move. Only 4 P+K and 2 k will hit in open-space. This move seems to only shine against players that will be scared of you (overly-defensive) and that are against the wall. That's when the mix-up options start. It's just super slow at 39 frames.
- Bokuho 4p (Not too bad when used after 2,1,4 P+K. However, people should typically expect a mid punch when Honoka is in Bokuho stance).

***One thing that I'm not a fan of: The options you get if 2,1,4 P+K counter hits are really inconsistent. For the two mid punch options or the high kick to hit, you have to be really close to the opponent. And the move wall splats, so... I guess it's only really worth using if you're sure your opponent will block.

I'm unsure about how useful her BT stance is though, but her 4P+K and her p,p string are both good.

Please do correct me if any of this seems wrong. Am I just missing something?
Is her BT stance even worth using?

 

[TRI Mike]

The only good ways to transition to BT with her are either 4P+K, Doku P+K (both launchers) and maybe BKO 4P. Forget about using BT in neutral game because it's very difficult to move and attack while staying on it. She's not Helena, Brad or Ayane. The only moves that I know that keep her on BT are P, 4P+K (the butt thing Lisa has) and 4K (a launcher), other than that just use the BT moves thinking about exiting the stance immediately after.

 

[Nikotsumi]

(I apologize in advance if any of this has already been talked about!)

People have been talking about Honoka's stances, and I got pretty curious about her BT stance, so I looked at the transitions (I learned a thing or two in the process). And well, they're not too good, are they?

Firstly, she has:
- p,p,4,p (The third hit can be blocked and is quite punishable. Would only actually work if you could catch someone off guard.)
- 9 p,p,p (Delayable, and that's probably all there is to it. It's all mid punches, and the string and its variations are just not that good. Not sure why someone would want to use the 9 p (...) string).
- 4 p+k (Obviously a launcher. It's a pretty decent panic move).
- Dokuritso-Ho P+K (Another launcher).
- 2,3,6 H+K (Interesting move. Only 4 P+K and 2 k will hit in open-space. This move seems to only shine against players that will be scared of you (overly-defensive) and that are against the wall. That's when the mix-up options start. It's just super slow at 39 frames.
- Bokuho 4p (Not too bad when used after 2,1,4 P+K. However, people should typically expect a mid punch when Honoka is in Bokuho stance).

***One thing that I'm not a fan of: The options you get if 2,1,4 P+K counter hits are really inconsistent. For the two mid punch options or the high kick to hit, you have to be really close to the opponent. And the move wall splats, so... I guess it's only really worth using if you're sure your opponent will block.

I'm unsure about how useful her BT stance is though, but her 4P+K and her p,p string are both good.

Please do correct me if any of this seems wrong. Am I just missing something?
Is her BT stance even worth using?

I honestly think that Honoka BT moves are really good and it's really a shame that she has few good transitions.
-PP4P is punishable indeed, so I recommend using it during stun for a quick BT 4K launch.
-9PPP is one of those moves I use the most, the reason is because 95% of the times I get opponents who low hold after the second hit (because of 9PPK) so the third P hits and the stun cannot be slow escaped. Only thing you should be aware of is that everything can be side stepped (I usually use it after a 6T).
-236H+K is good in those situation you mentioned and it has an insanely good range too.
The ones I use the most (without counting the launchers) are 9PPP and Bokuho 4P.

After hitting with 214P+K I highly recommend to always do a little dash forward, you don't lose anything for doing it (and players use to panic-hold as soon as you start dashing). It's true that people generally expect a mid P when she's in Bokuho, in fact I abuse that Bokuho K a little too much lol.

I'd say to use her BT stance whenever you get the chance. BT PP and BT 4P+K are too good lol, both in neutral and in the stun game. They're both safe on block, PP is a transition into Hissatsu and 4P+K leaves her back-turned for more BT mix ups (and has good reach too). I'd say BT 4K is good too since it launche REALLY high.

On a side note, I hate her 63214P+K taunt and I want it to be removed because I can't dash into 214P+K.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Well, after a lot of testing with Honoka on the coconut/debris tech that has been found, I've came up to the conclusion that she cannot do it.
She cannot use her ground attack here, so she has to rely on normal attack into guaranteed force techs (which is possible).
The problem is that opponents can still get up in 2 different ways :
-The first one being the one we all want, opponent gets up back-turned. The thing is this only happens if they try to back tech (and it's not even consistent).
-In the second one, they get up with more invulnerability (and the angle is weird, not considered back-turned). This always happens if they try tech to the sides.
I was planning to make a video about Honoka's possible combos with this tech, but now I'm not even gonna bother anymore because this is way too situational, lol even the AI rarely back techs when near a wall, I can't even properly test in training mode (couldn't find anything on Scramble).
@DestructionBomb

Here's a demonstration (I'm doing the teching myself) :

On the other hand, she has different (and more reliable) ways to still get guaranteed damage with those coconuts, some examples :

- Wallsplat > 33P > 3K > coconut + Dokuritsu-Ho P (into 4K > 33K).
- Heichu P+K > Hissatsu no Kamae K > 3PP > coconut + 33K
Both Dokuritsu-Ho P and 33K cannot be held/blocked.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Well, after a lot of testing with Honoka on the coconut/debris tech that has been found, I've came up to the conclusion that she cannot do it.
She cannot use her ground attack here, so she has to rely on normal attack into guaranteed force techs (which is possible).
The problem is that opponents can still get up in 2 different ways :
-The first one being the one we all want, opponent gets up back-turned. The thing is this only happens if they try to back tech (and it's not even consistent).
-In the second one, they get up with more invulnerability (and the angle is weird, not considered back-turned). This always happens if they try tech to the sides.
I was planning to make a video about Honoka's possible combos with this tech, but now I'm not even gonna bother anymore because this is way too situational, lol even the AI rarely back techs when near a wall, I can't even properly test in training mode (couldn't find anything on Scramble).
@DestructionBomb

Here's a demonstration (I'm doing the teching myself) :

On the other hand, she has different (and more reliable) ways to still get guaranteed damage with those coconuts, some examples :

- Wallsplat > 33P > 3K > coconut + Dokuritsu-Ho P (into 4K > 33K).
- Heichu P+K > Hissatsu no Kamae K > 3PP > coconut + 33K
Both Dokuritsu-Ho P and 33K cannot be held/blocked.

Yeah, the very unfortunate part is her ground attack (or some would call, the ground pounds) has too much recovery after it hits. You can get them back turned with side rolls too actually, but more timing on ground pounds during these situations, and if they back tech they'll get hit by the objects but it wouldn't be a force tech (to some degree if they wake up too early, if they wake up too late they'll get hit). It is definitely situational, simply to top it all is that only 5 stages has this type of environment to enable that situation. The second is getting the opponent there, which is no easy task at all because of the 3D plane of DOA. Overall if we had to be completely honest here, I think the one on Scramble may be the only one worth doing since Scramble has 4 walls that drops two buckets, and all of those walls are near each other in a curve stage slant. Scramble is situational too of course but it's the closest one without getting too much hazards getting in the way. Then there are situations that remove those obstacles, heck the buckets are gone if you trigger the generators on the right of the stage so that can ruin it completely. Also to mention that certain characters are better at doing them than most (Hayabusa, Jann Lee, Pai) because they have a throw/setup that can get them in that situation easier.

It's a pretty interesting one seeing as the bucket is basically Bass's 214P in vanilla that gave him a guaranteed running 66K boot attack on a BT opponent. Only difference is that the falling objects does the same thing for everyone but has to be done near a wall that drops them in the first place. It is definitely situational, and can be interesting with different characters at the same time. For some characters if not, mostly, is probably not worth going for.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Yeah, the very unfortunate part is her ground attack (or some would call, the ground pounds) has too much recovery after it hits. You can get them back turned with side rolls too actually, but more timing on ground pounds during these situations, and if they back tech they'll get hit by the objects but it wouldn't be a force tech (to some degree if they wake up too early, if they wake up too late they'll get hit). It is definitely situational, simply to top it all is that only 5 stages has this type of environment to enable that situation. The second is getting the opponent there, which is no easy task at all because of the 3D plane of DOA. Overall if we had to be completely honest here, I think the one on Scramble may be the only one worth doing since Scramble has 4 walls that drops two buckets, and all of those walls are near each other in a curve stage slant. Scramble is situational too of course but it's the closest one without getting too much hazards getting in the way. Then there are situations that remove those obstacles, heck the buckets are gone if you trigger the generators on the right of the stage so that can ruin it completely. Also to mention that certain characters are better at doing them than most (Hayabusa, Jann Lee, Pai) because they have a throw/setup that can get them in that situation easier.

It's a pretty interesting one seeing as the bucket is basically Bass's 214P in vanilla that gave him a guaranteed running 66K boot attack on a BT opponent. Only difference is that the falling objects does the same thing for everyone but has to be done near a wall that drops them in the first place. It is definitely situational, and can be interesting with different characters at the same time. For some characters if not, mostly, is probably not worth going for.

Yeah, basically what I meant is that not being able to rely on the ground pound here adds more case to the already situational scenario.
With the ground pound if they back tech they'll get stunned by the object, and if they side tech they'll eat guaranteed damage.
Without it they have to necessarily back tech (and it's not even consistent) but I think no one is gonna do that when near a wall lol.

Anyway, despite being specific to certain stages, this is still pretty good for other characters

 

[illninofan]

So I'm finally starting to get comfortable with Level 8.

Wanted to start getting feedback from more experienced players, so if you please, critique my fight below:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, so apologies in advance. But I've taken on Honoka as my main, so I figured this would be a good place.

Thank you.

 

[Lulu]

So I'm finally starting to get comfortable with Level 8.

Wanted to start getting feedback from more experienced players, so if you please, critique my fight below:

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, so apologies in advance. But I've taken on Honoka as my main, so I figured this would be a good place.

Thank you.

Level 8 cheats so its okay if you don't feel like you're winning consistently or making progress.... merely play on level to practice my Reactions and Punishes since the AI can't cheat.... its fun Punishing the AI because it doesn't miss a Beat... if you're off by one frame it will not only Hi-Counter You... it will do it with a Launcher.

 

[illninofan]

Level 8 cheats so its okay if you don't feel like you're winning consistently or making progress.... merely play on level to practice my Reactions and Punishes since the AI can't cheat.... its fun Punishing the AI because it doesn't miss a Beat... if you're off by one frame it will not only Hi-Counter You... it will do it with a Launcher.

Tell me about it.

In any case, I agree, I want to make Level 8 the new Level 1 (as absurd as that sounds) before I'm ready to play online. Training your reactions and nailing down the basics can't hurt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Honoka's game is essentially built on getting inside, where she does her damage (Launches, Stance Mixups and Throws...for not being a wrestler or grappler like Tina or Mila, she has strong throw attributes).

Therein lies the problem, though. She doesn't have many ways in and the ways in leave you open for a lot of damage.

I'll keep tinkering until I can find a consistent way in other than (which has it's faults..gets exposed I play Ayane, for example).

EDIT: Oh and is handy af.

 

[Lulu]

@illninofan
I don't know exactly how Honoka's suppose to be played but if you resign yourself to a single Strategy you might end up being too predictable.

.... there was a Honoka Video Guide somewhere around here that covers Honoka's options across different Ranges.... shes more Capable at R1F Distance than People give her Credit for.

That video must be Somewhere...

 

[illninofan]

@illninofan
I don't know exactly how Honoka's suppose to be played but if you resign yourself to a single Strategy you might end up being too predictable.

.... there was a Honoka Video Guide somewhere around here that covers Honoka's options across different Ranges.... shes more Capable at R1F Distance than People give her Credit for.

That video must be Somewhere...

Sure, I'd love to take a look at it.

I'm not used to the lingo here just yet but I'm guessing that R1F is longer distance?

You're also right about not being too predictable. I read another post that implores you to engender a deep understanding of your character's offense, so you know exactly when and where to use each move. That way you keep your opponent off-balance (but not the computer, apparently ).

 

[Lulu]

@illninofan
I'm sorry its actually GRF Distance.... anyway it Stands for "Get Ready Fight"... its the distance in between you and your opponent immediately after the Character Intros.... we couldn't call it "Starting Distance" because DoA (and Killer Instinct) allow you to run up & down the stage before the Fight actually Starts.

That video is definitely somewhere here in this website... buried deep in the media section or some where in one of these boards.... I don't know where to Start looking. All I know is it was made by a dude named Jay or Jae or something like that. Its very good video, not just for those looking to learn Honoka but also for those looking for how to deal with Her.

Actually its not Jay... it starts with a D.... I honestly don't remember.

Edit: lol... I'm sorry for my constant contradictions.... at actually is Jaee his handle is Deevuhh.... I knew there was a "D" somewhere.

Unfortunately I don't know what this Deevuhh handle is for... could be his twitter or PSN ID or his FSD username.... I honestly just don't know....

I'm afraid thats all the information I can give you to help find the Video... I actually downloaded so I could watch it over and over.... I don't remember how I found it though.

 

[illninofan]

It's cool. If someone can find it that would be awesome. If not, I can continue my research/testing and keep building on my knowledge of the fundamentals.

By the way, I love how the terminology here really, really breaks down the game to it's finest details.

The fact that there's a name for the distance at the start of a fight, for example.

 

[Lulu]

Unfortunately not everything has been named... particularly when it comes to Stuns and Knockdowns....but that's manageable.

 

[illninofan]

When is the best time to use her 3K stance (and all of the follow-ups)? To be safe, I use it after her 6T and (if my eye is good that day) after her 6P when it lands as a counter attack and stuns the opponent.

Also, what else can you use her 2P+K46P for aside from a finisher during juggles? I know the 2P+K has launching capabilities, but I wouldn't use it unless it was after a stun (like the aforementioned 6P) .

 

[Bacaww]

When is the best time to use her 3K stance (and all of the follow-ups)? To be safe, I use it after her 6T and (if my eye is good that day) after her 6P when it lands as a counter attack and stuns the opponent.

Also, what else can you use her 2P46P for aside from a finisher during juggles? I know the 2P has launching capabilities, but I wouldn't use it unless it was after a stun (like the aforementioned 6P) .

2P+K46P is great for a quick guard break

 

[illninofan]

Oops. I meant (Yoshi-Saiken).

Sorry, still getting used to the notation. I'll go back and edit.

 

[Bacaww]

Oops. I meant (Yoshi-Saiken).

Sorry, still getting used to the notation. I'll go back and edit.

Yeah I noticed

 

[Nikotsumi]

When is the best time to use her 3K stance (and all of the follow-ups)? To be safe, I use it after her 6T and (if my eye is good that day) after her 6P when it lands as a counter attack and stuns the opponent.

Also, what else can you use her 2P+K46P for aside from a finisher during juggles? I know the 2P+K has launching capabilities, but I wouldn't use it unless it was after a stun (like the aforementioned 6P) .

Yup, her 3K stance (Brad Wong's) is best used after you are on the offense with the first stun (such as counter hit 6P), however I wouldn't say to never use 3K when in neutral : despite being unsafe (and the follow ups 3PP and 3PPP as well), it is quite fast and the stun is deep even on normal hit, the string has also a very big delay window.
It's not a bad thing to use it after a 6T, though be aware that it doesn't track so if your opponent likes to side step he'll avoid it.

As for the stance follow ups, they're just all good to use in the stun game, with P being a so-called "sit down stun" (it guarantees a 33K laucher), K/P+K are good launchers, H+K is a transition in her unique Hissatsu no Kamae stance and 4K is good stun filler that lets her go into the Christie roll for more mix-ups.

2P+K46P is mainly used as her main juggle finisher indeed. I do not recommend to use 2P+K as a launcher after a stun though, it only allows to go for a quick PPP6P juggle in pretty much any case (launch height) and note that it is both a mid K and a high, meaning that the opponent has more chances of guessing right with a hold.

 

[illninofan]

Yup, her 3K stance (Brad Wong's) is best used after you are on the offense with the first stun (such as counter hit 6P), however I wouldn't say to never use 3K when in neutral : despite being unsafe (and the follow ups 3PP and 3PPP as well), it is quite fast and the stun is deep even on normal hit, the string has also a very big delay window.
It's not a bad thing to use it after a 6T, though be aware that it doesn't track so if your opponent likes to side step he'll avoid it.

As for the stance follow ups, they're just all good to use in the stun game, with P being a so-called "sit down stun" (it guarantees a 33K laucher), K/P+K are good launchers, H+K is a transition in her unique Hissatsu no Kamae stance and 4K is good stun filler that lets her go into the Christie roll for more mix-ups.

2P+K46P is mainly used as her main juggle finisher indeed. I do not recommend to use 2P+K as a launcher after a stun though, it only allows to go for a quick PPP6P juggle in pretty much any case (launch height) and note that it is both a mid K and a high, meaning that the opponent has more chances of guessing right with a hold.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Now I can be more confident with my use of the 3K stance (to me, the hardest to figure out of all her stances). Everything else is spot on and even confirmed a few suspicions I had.