Soapbox: Community Activism and the DOA Narrative

b-bombs

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Over the last month or so I've observed several instances which, frankly, have made me embarrassed to be a part of this community.

There seems to be an cognitive dissonance going on in some of the DOA competitive community. On one hand, we'll complain about how DOA doesn't get enough respect in the larger FGC community, that people under-appreciate the depth of the game, and that DOA deserves a larger presence and acknowledgement at major tournaments.

On the other hand, we openly talk sh*t about the game in tournament chat rooms & WHILE COMMENTATING for the tournament on stream. We belittle our game when talking to Street Fighter/Marvel/KI/etc. players at offline events. We'll rage in online lobbies if there's any lag, and belittle players that win using "cheap" lag tactics - often talking shit to the lobby or stream about the game in order to save face for the rage quitting. We sometimes display nearly ZERO excitement when spectating our own game, in person, at tournaments (everyone at NCR, myself included). We do ourselves a major disservice when engaging in this behavior. It alienates us from not only the larger FGC community, but also from the developer, Team Ninja.

[At this point I'd like to make a small note. I'm not taking shots at anyone in particular. This is about the community as a whole, not any specific person, event, or region. So if you're reading this and getting personally offended you're already missing the point and taking yourself out of the context of the conversation.]

Make no bones about it - DOA still faces a huge uphill battle toward being taken seriously as a competitive fighter. We've made some progress with the Road to TFC last year and Battle Royal this year. But look at the tourney lineup. We're still side tournaments at a lot of stops on that list. The narrative about DOA remains that it's a ecchi game, with basic-ass simple mechanics that you can simply mash out of, that fighting game amateurs and perverts play.

We need to take control of this narrative. We need to regard ourselves as DOA activists and ALWAYS talk up our game in public settings. We need to bring the hype and energy when spectating our games in offline tournaments. We need to wear the DOA badge with pride, and ALWAYS be as inclusive as possible in offline and online mediums. Some people do an excellent job at this, organizers and players alike. But some do an absolutely horrible job, and it has a disproportionate impact on how this game is perceived.

I'm not saying we can't be critical of the game. Obviously a less than perfect netcode, exploding costumes, and marketing breasts physics deserves critique. However, there's a difference between constructive criticism and dismissive criticism. "OMG breast motion is unfortunate blemish on an otherwise impressive fighter," is constructive. "Yeah, X glitch doesn't makes sense, but a lot doesn't make sense because DOA lol," is dismissive and insinuates that the game isn't of sufficient seriousness or quality to be held accountable for its flaws.

*****​

Here are the tactics I have been and will be using to help promote the game in a positive manner. These are by no means perfect and all-encompassing, so I'm open to community input and suggestions. I would like to invite you guys to join me in taking this activist attitude about the game.

Never let the topic of breasts, pervertedness, or "slutty" costumes dominate any public conversation about DOA.

Be ruthless about this. Breasts bounce in other games. Cammy's been wearing a thong for years. Ivy Valentine dressed like a dominatrix long before Rachel perfected it. This isn't worth wasting much time on - every minute spent dealing with crap arguments people give to dismiss our game gives those very arguments more power. Don't spend a bunch of time fighting against it. Acknowledge it, then move on immediately. This game has a ton to offer. The triangle system is amazing. The meta-game is far more compelling than Marvel - touch of death combos don't really exist in DOA. The characters are relatively well balanced compared to other games. We have the most unique system with regards to taking active stages into account. Be like a politician, make it about your positive talking points.

• Do commentary as though Tom Lee and the game creators are sitting right next to you.

Let's remember to speak highly about the game. How we speak about the game to each other affects how outsiders and the game developers perceive the our community's support for the game. If we're trashing the game's mechanics or belittling it as though we don't respect it how can we possibly expect anyone else to respect us? How can we expect Team Ninja to get behind tournament tours with sponsorship and pot bonuses? The only way we will get to be taken as a professional caliber fighter is if we behave that way. If we need to critique, do it constructively, always with the tone of making an already great game better. Street Fighter fans aren't bashing their game nor letting others get away with it, neither should we.

• Always be inclusive.

Being part of a cult community is cool, but being part of a heavily supported and financed community is better. We're not hipsters - going mainstream is the goal. With more people playing and spending money on DOA we get more games, larger FGC representation, bigger tournament pots, and hopefully a larger voice to speak to the developers about our issues with the game. Being inclusive also means explaining the game mechanics and triangle system on streams to make sure new folks can get an idea if they happen to be casually watching between other games. At Cali Crush we're going to make it a point this year to explain the triangle system a few times during stream, including at the beginning of top eight and before winners finals.

This extends to online play as well stream chat room presence as well. Any one of us that has 1% of a tournament personality or offline presence has the opportunity to be an advocate of this game and the tournament scene when we're online as well. PS4's and XB1's can all stream now, so you never know who is watching. Raging about this game's netcode and being aggressive or belittling of online players for 'lag tactics' doesn't do anything to help out cause. There should be no division between the offline and online community. Everyone is welcome. This game isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn good and we want everyone to share in the fun with us.

• Bring the hype!

It's disappointing to go to tournaments around the country and see people screaming and cheering for Smash Bros, KOF, Killer Instinct, even Tekken Tag, but hear the DOA section quiet. If someone lands an ultra in SF, people go hype. If someone gets a happy birthday in Marvel, people lose their sh*t. We have all these opportunities with power blows, danger zone/stage combos, match altering holds, etc. to bring the energy. We have people that lose their match and storm off from the tournament instead of staying and supporting their peers. We need to be like the Tea Party when we're at tournaments - we may be a tiny minority of total people there, but we'll be disproportionately loud. Be cheerleaders for our peers and for our game.

*****​
In closing I'll say this: I'm very grateful for the people I've met in the community and I've been blessed to have experienced a mostly positive experience from the folks that welcomed me into the competitive realm. I love DOA, and that's speaking as a person that campaigns for feminist causes (BTW mods, can you change my name to b-bombs?), has too many bills & work, and nowhere near enough time to actually get good at a competitive level.

I wish everyone, experienced and new, to share a similarly positive experience. We're generally a good group of people, we play an outstanding game, and we deserve to be treated as such. But we're going to have to fight for it - which works out because WE ARE FIGHTERS. Let's be activists, too. Let's control the DOA narrative and keep it positive and encouraging. And let's take our game to the next level.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I agree with you completely, @boobiebombs

Aside from a few other reasons (for me), and a few different people encouraging me, that's why I've started streaming my game sessions within' recent weeks. So that I can get more comfortable with commentary for the stream and improve at it. It's the same reason why I decided to stream my recent Honoka and Momiji tutorials, rather than just doing video tutorials.

The thing about commentators in different games is that not only are they very good at commentary, they are also good and/or very knowledgeable about their game(s). So their commentary is always very solid and engaging because they have good traits. So I figure it is a good idea for me to contribute in a different way that's also very beneficial for both me and the community that likes to learn.
 
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Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
[At this point I'd like to make a small note. I'm not taking shots at anyone in particular. This is about the community as a whole, not any specific person, event, or region. So if you're reading this and getting personally offended you're already missing the point and taking yourself out of the context of the conversation.]
Good call on that small note, 'cause I would've been personally offended by some of the following things you said.

Make no bones about it - DOA still faces a huge uphill battle toward being taken seriously as a competitive fighter. We've made some progress with the Road to TFC last year and Battle Royal this year. But look at the tourney lineup. We're still side tournaments at a lot of stops on that list. The narrative about DOA remains that it's a ecchi game, with basic-ass simple mechanics that you can simply mash out of, that fighting game amateurs and perverts play.
To be fair, we all start off as amateurs... yes, even top players and seasoned tournament veterans. DOA is all the better for being the barrier of entry for 3D fighters without insulting the player's intelligence, much like Final Fantasy X has done for RPGs with its unique CTB system. It was Itagaki's intention when creating the game, after all... the new Team Ninja simply built upon that and evolved for the competitive scene.

There's no shame in attracting amateur/novice players, 'cause it can be telling of what a potential player pool that can bring if marketed right. It's just a shame Koei pushed TN to a corner and did the opposite on terms of marketing. But at least Road to TFC and Battle Royal were the redeeming factors of those efforts.

Never let the topic of breasts, pervertedness, or "slutty" costumes dominate any public conversation about DOA.

Be ruthless about this. Breasts bounce in other games. Cammy's been wearing a thong for years. Ivy Valentine dressed like a dominatrix long before Rachel perfected it. This isn't worth wasting much time on - every minute spent dealing with crap arguments people give to dismiss our game gives those very arguments more power. Don't spend a bunch of time fighting against it. Acknowledge it, then move on immediately. This game has a ton to offer. The triangle system is amazing. The meta-game is far more compelling than Marvel - touch of death combos don't really exist in DOA. The characters are relatively well balanced compared to other games. We have the most unique system with regards to taking active stages into account. Be like a politician, make it about your positive talking points.
You have no idea how often I've tried to talk positively and as logically as I can about tag (which isn't even a topic about boobs and slutty costumes), when others become so quickly dismissive of it because of its intimidating juggle potential that is often exaggerated by some that they work on all weight classes. But instead, I get dismissed for it anyway despite my efforts.

It's funny how people ignore when you do try to speak positive about certain things that aren't about the casual aspects of a game, but they're all ears and bring traffic the minute you say something negative.

• Always be inclusive.

Being part of a cult community is cool, but being part of a heavily supported and financed community is better. We're not hipsters - going mainstream is the goal. With more people playing and spending money on DOA we get more games, larger FGC representation, bigger tournament pots, and hopefully a larger voice to speak to the developers about our issues with the game. Being inclusive also means explaining the game mechanics and triangle system on streams to make sure new folks can get an idea if they happen to be casually watching between other games. At Cali Crush we're going to make it a point this year to explain the triangle system a few times during stream, including at the beginning of top eight and before winners finals.

This extends to online play as well stream chat room presence as well. Any one of us that has 1% of a tournament personality or offline presence has the opportunity to be an advocate of this game and the tournament scene when we're online as well. PS4's and XB1's can all stream now, so you never know who is watching. Raging about this game's netcode and being aggressive or belittling of online players for 'lag tactics' doesn't do anything to help out cause. There should be no division between the offline and online community. Everyone is welcome. This game isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn good and we want everyone to share in the fun with us.
This is perfect. But I should also add that if you receive hatemail on stream, don't give it any feedback. Just throw it away, block the player, and never speak of it again.

Hatemail is a fool's bragging rights. Unless it's a personal threat, showing it off makes you look no better than the person who sent it.

• Bring the hype!

It's disappointing to go to tournaments around the country and see people screaming and cheering for Smash Bros, KOF, Killer Instinct, even Tekken Tag, but hear the DOA section quiet. If someone lands an ultra in SF, people go hype. If someone gets a happy birthday in Marvel, people lose their sh*t. We have all these opportunities with power blows, danger zone/stage combos, match altering holds, etc. to bring the energy. We have people that lose their match and storm off from the tournament instead of staying and supporting their peers. We need to be like the Tea Party when we're at tournaments - we may be a tiny minority of total people there, but we'll be disproportionately loud. Be cheerleaders for our peers and for our game.
On this subject, I believe some people "storm off" from the tournament when they're given the impression that they're just another number for tourney attendance that nobody really wants there, so to speak. Or they might be afraid of enduring any potential post-match backlash for doing poorly on stream. Other than that, the only reason I could see this happening is if the player talked a lot of shit.

There's also that possibility that some of us ain't the cheering type... that we're just quiet and reserved. And even though it's not really as bad as it looks, some have been exposed to the negativity about the FGC for so long that they believe doing the opposite would at least make them look chill and civilized enough to attract newcomers.
 
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b-bombs

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
There's no shame in attracting amateur/novice players, 'cause it can be telling of what a potential player pool that can bring if marketed right. It's just a shame Koei pushed TN to a corner and did the opposite on terms of marketing. But at least Road to TFC and Battle Royal were the redeeming factors of those efforts.

@Awesmic bringing the heat as always. I couldn't agree more about no shame in attracting or being a novice/amateur. I still consider myself amateur, and I had a VERY positive experience being welcomed into the community a couple years ago. I want to attract more casual and novice players - they can become the pillars of the community in the near future.

On this subject, I believe some people "storm off" from the tournament when they're given the impression that they're just another number for tourney attendance that nobody really wants there, so to speak. Or they might be afraid of enduring any potential post-match backlash for doing poorly on stream. Other than that, the only reason I could see this happening is if the player talked a lot of shit.

There's also that possibility that some of us ain't the cheering type... that we're just quiet and reserved. And even though it's not really as bad as it looks, some have been exposed to the negativity about the FGC for so long that they believe doing the opposite would at least make them look chill and civilized enough to attract newcomers.

Great points about people enduring post-match backlash and being reserved. This topic along with your note I quoted above are exactly why it's so important to be inclusive and support each other. It's so much more comforting a feeling to know you have people in your corner, even if you just met them that day, that are going to cheer for you and congratulate you for your accomplishments. Then it becomes contagious. As more people feel the warmth and support of those around them, the easier it is for them to actively support other as well. It doesn't have to mean forcing uncomfortable or reserved people to be loud when they don't want to be, they can find their own ways to express support.

Anyone that's ever tried CrossFit (ugh, I know people brag about it all the time) has probably had the shock moment on their first day when a bunch of total strangers is cheering and encouraging them on. It's part of the culture. Everyone supports everyone else, from Day 1 forward. They all push each other to get better, congratulate each other on the smallest of achievements, and constantly share any tips and give advice at every opportunity. That's the culture I'd like to see in DOA. Let's introduce ourselves at the beginning of tournaments. Let's give newbies constructive criticism and helpful tips to watch them improve. We don't have 300 person events. No one should feel like a number. Everyone gets supported, everyone gets acknowledged as a human that has something positive to add to the community.
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
There are 2 phrases that I've heard countless times. That are the (go to) phrases. These phrases are the introductory words when one wants to talk about the community or tech. The starting phrase for tech talk is "rock, paper, scissors". For when people are talking about the community. The phrase is "The DoA community is the worst". The 2 phrases have been drilled so far into the ground. They made it all the way to China by now.

The rock paper scissors thing is just a personal gripe. But the whole oh "the doa community is the worst" is a (trendy) phrase that needs to stop. Really that's all it is at this point. It's a fad within the fgc to say that shit. The people within this community. Need to cut the shit out, so things change. Things need to be taken by a step by step process. I believe ending that shit is the first step. Keep your opinions to yourself. My personal opinion I feel there is a even worse community out there. But I ain't gonna say which one cause shitting on a community or something is not productive.

Once this community has grown and if it's gets to the point of having a lot of fans. Then we as a community can talk about other shit. Like a costume ban or other major issues. Attitudes need to change, so new players feel welcomed. When a community is huge. That community can do a lot with its huge backing.

Another gripe of mine when I hop online. I feel like I'm in a episode of intervention. Every episode the addicts talk about how much they hate themselves and drugs. But yet almost all of them keep going back to drugs. The shit hardly ends on a happy note. That's how I see online players (some) of them. They talk, so much shit about online, but yet go back to it. I should start a rehab center for online addiction. These players should be subjected to a shitty connection everyday. So they can appreciate a good connection and stop bitching about the bad ones and just play the fucking game.
 

DrDam

Member
There is work to be done by the commnunity but you can't deny that TN also needs to step it up in some aspects. They do support tournaments in their own way but they need to put a little more effort into their game.

Since launch, they have released 3-4 DLC packs and yet there is still a significant part of the players that just can't play online. At all. I know a lot of next-gen games encounter problems at launch but it's been almost 2 months, they should be focusing 100% on making their game playable before worrying about extras.
 

TheRealCoxinator

Well-Known Member
Another gripe of mine when I hop online. I feel like I'm in a episode of intervention. Every episode the addicts talk about how much they hate themselves and drugs. But yet almost all of them keep going back to drugs. The shit hardly ends on a happy note. That's how I see online players (some) of them. They talk, so much shit about online, but yet go back to it. I should start a rehab center for online addiction. These players should be subjected to a shitty connection everyday. So they can appreciate a good connection and stop bitching about the bad ones and just play the fucking game.
This is me right here lol, mainly it's because I have people to play with or just don't have anything else to play. The online definitely ruins the experience of the game, and just shows DOA's flaws even more. Lag and bullshit are part of every fighting game so that's not the problem online imo, the problem is the fact that someone with no knowledge of mechanics or other characters can easily get wins and other things just by either spamming hold while negative, or straight mashing because you can't stop it online until it inflicts too much damage. I can play for 8 years longer than the people who mash, I can know all the things I need to win and do them, but when it's online, for this game in particular, you can just mash to win even if the other person is infinitely better. In general it has a lot of bullshit for example how OH are balanced cuz you can throw them, like they aren't crazy fast and go through strings. lol. Or Marie Rose in general. Fuckin ridiculous she is. Either way this is from a salty scrub who wants to git gud but never can even tho this game is "balanced" MvC3 is shit balanced tho, and we're getting there.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
No because not only did he state the truth; He added on things he suggests other people try in order to improve the image of the game. He is basically trying to have a heart to heart with the community. No pressure or anything put on anyone.

I dunno, looking from the outside in this would look pretty negative. That's just me I guess though =/
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
This is me right here lol, mainly it's because I have people to play with or just don't have anything else to play. The online definitely ruins the experience of the game, and just shows DOA's flaws even more. Lag and bullshit are part of every fighting game so that's not the problem online imo, the problem is the fact that someone with no knowledge of mechanics or other characters can easily get wins and other things just by either spamming hold while negative, or straight mashing because you can't stop it online until it inflicts too much damage. I can play for 8 years longer than the people who mash, I can know all the things I need to win and do them, but when it's online, for this game in particular, you can just mash to win even if the other person is infinitely better. In general it has a lot of bullshit for example how OH are balanced cuz you can throw them, like they aren't crazy fast and go through strings. lol. Or Marie Rose in general. Fuckin ridiculous she is. Either way this is from a salty scrub who wants to git gud but never can even tho this game is "balanced" MvC3 is shit balanced tho, and we're getting there.

I have played online for a while and even when I first learned the differences. I didn't complain, there's no point in it. If you know the shit people are doing. Wouldn't actually work against you offline why are you playing that person? Play that person once and move on. I have a buddy who abuses online heavily it's really bad. It won't sink in that the stuff he is doing is online. Till someone spanks him offline. I can only remember a few legit wins where he outplayed me. The rest were because of online.

Even then I don't complain it's not that serious. I could yell at him for abusing online, but why am I gonna yell at someone for simply not understanding. I come online to practice and have fun. If I ever reach the point of being angry. I know to take a break. Me personally, getting mad over online is beyond me. I've only seriously rage quit once in DoA4.
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
People have lives..
I have a full time (40+ hours a week) job, take classes, make time to hang out with friends, spend time with my girlfriend who lives with me, write, have a ton of other hobbies that occupy my time, and get to spend an inordinate amount of time at hospitals and dealing with my lovely health in general. Despite all of that, I find time to help organize events and discussion, to assist in the more mundane bits of helping run a community, and to sometimes post things that don't make me look like a prepubescent drama-monger.

What you choose to do with your supposedly busy life is your choice, but posting glass-half-full bullshit like you did is generally proof positive of having far too much time on your hands. You know what would have taken a similar amount of time to type as what you just did? "I'll help out where I can." Believe it or not, a well-placed 'Like' or supportive post can make a huge difference. The only thing posts like the one I quoted from you do is encourage dissent and stymie progress. That and make you look like you're a fucking whiner.
 

The Enforcer

Well-Known Member
Fantastic write-up!! How do I give this extra likes.

Without rehashing much, I highly agree with most / if not everything in the post. The community needs to expel the vitriol and in-fighting.

If someone has to put others or other franchises down to prop themselves up, there's clearly an insecurity issue. I think the post documents some great ways to start moving past that.
 

Glitterati

Well-Known Member
I have a full time (40+ hours a week) job, take classes, make time to hang out with friends, spend time with my girlfriend who lives with me, write, have a ton of other hobbies that occupy my time, and get to spend an inordinate amount of time at hospitals and dealing with my lovely health in general. Despite all of that, I find time to help organize events and discussion, to assist in the more mundane bits of helping run a community, and to sometimes post things that don't make me look like a prepubescent drama-monger.

What you choose to do with your supposedly busy life is your choice, but posting glass-half-full bullshit like you did is generally proof positive of having far too much time on your hands. You know what would have taken a similar amount of time to type as what you just did? "I'll help out where I can." Believe it or not, a well-placed 'Like' or supportive post can make a huge difference. The only thing posts like the one I quoted from you do is encourage dissent and stymie progress. That and make you look like you're a fucking whiner.
People have lives other than playing video games. My life doesn't revolve around doa. Am from your response, I'm questioning if I still want to be a part this sensitive community.

And no one was whining.
 
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Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
People have lives other than playing video games. My life doesn't revolve around doa. Am from your response, I'm questioning if I still want to be a part this sensitive community.

Yes people do have lives other than playing video games. Though you'll have to explain how taking one day or two a month to play a game with a group of people in person means your life revolves around it; Considering there are people that play WAYYYY LONGER than that every day or night after work.
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
People have lives other than playing video games. My life doesn't revolve around doa. Am from your response, I'm questioning if I still want to be a part this sensitive community.

Judging from your first response you don't want to be a part of this community. The OP put a disclaimer saying "this targets no one." But yet felt the need to defend yourself. As if you personally got attacked. A community includes more than one person not just yourself. Get over yourself.
 
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