The age of the Easy

[MasterHavik]

To avoid using vulgar language in the title of this thread I will be calling it the The age of the Easy. I wanted it to call it the era of the pussies but I don't think that would fly with the mods on here. Anyway sometimes has been bugging me. Ever since I started to take fighters serious with DOA 4 and SC4.I have always been one to be learn for myself and figure things out by watching videos. For example, all of my knowledge and combos with Zack in 4 came from watching Highguy and Hatify along with just practicing. I did the same in SC4 with Talim, Yoshimitsu, and Algol. If i had question, I'll head on the threads for SC and DOA and ask.

Ever sicne Fighters have been on this desperate mission for the casuals, I am struck here wondering why are they doing it? Follow with me for a second here guys. Why have fighters decided to dumb themselves down? Why add in comeback factors? Why reward poor play with a powerful technique? This is why I like the NRS games so much as while they are easy to get into there is no get out of jail free cards. Xrays suddenly don't turn the match around for you in MK9 or 10.Inactables in Injustice just don't gift you free damage. This isn't to put NRS over games as Tekken is another to reward you for being good at the game and not poor play. Yes, I know they had rage in 6 and TTT 2 but it has been lessen and nearly omitted in 7.

Anyway, I am rambling my point is why are games beign dumb down so much? Why are people crying for in depth tutorial modes? Hell, when Skullgirls tried to do one people complain it was too hard. I know people praise the GG Rev2nd one a lot, and we had a pretty decent one in ultimate. But you know what I think? I

I think it's fucking useless. Why? Because only the hardcore will actually value you adding that and the casual will just do it to earn the few in-game reward/achievement.They won't actually think, "So how can I get to the my CB faster with Hitomi?" It will be, "Glad that was over. Man, that was long." The information will go out of their head. I remember teaching this one girl some Krillin's combos and tech on her stream as she was trying out DBZF. She instantly forgot all the basic bnbs I showed her and went to play someone else. See what I mean? these people just want to have fun and trying to force them to become better is a waste of time. Hell, even when you make it easy said player will still struggle because tutorial or not you can't teach mixup and footises to someone. Why can't you show them the basic controls and that's it? (Along with some advance moves.). The reason the level of play of DBZF has grown isn't because of an in depth tutorial but because people had the want and drive to get better at the game and explore. The developer shouldn't be task with having to hold your hand and spoonfed you information. People need to stop asking for hand outs and learn how to get good. It has gotten so bad to a point we have games like BBTAG, which is so shallow you can learn half the roster within an hour. I hope DOA 6 doesn't become that but it has it own issues. They are adding auto combos to a game where people literally mash. Why? Why give them a hold, while low damaging, can hold anything? Who is TN listening to you? Who is any of these developers listening to? It's getting out of hand. Hell, the Arc system team made the changes to their game because they were tired of seeing all Japanese top 8s at EVO for their game. So, yes, they called their whole NA playerbase bad and dumb the game down so we'll have a chance. I wonder what they'll say with the recent development of DBZF's competitive scence?

 

[deathofaninja]

If I'm having a fun time with the game I don't give a fuck how casual it is... not to mention we don't know all of the rules to this game so in my opinion you are spending too much time thinking about how it could go wrong and that's unhealthy.

Why I'm not worried - I've seen casuals play DOA6 already and they are horrible; horrible enough to say that break gauge definitely wont be used every second, so I'm not sure I agree that it's a casual element either.

For instance, if you were to fight XcaliburBladeZ in DOA5 at your best right now, you would more than likely lose. IS that going to change in DOA6? Probably not... why? Because he's going to master the mechanics given to him. So at the end of the day what's going to change? More people will win? Because to me that sounds like a great thing. I've done write-ups for almost every single offline tournament DOA5 had! Kwiggle dominated one year, Bladez another and Sweet another. I would love to see the mechanics go into a direction where we can see all types of different players winning tournaments.

I am more worried about the character that will be in the game... not to mention I heard the game was only 10% complete. I'm just failing to understand what some of you are not liking and I've watched every gameplay breakdown possible. When I received Goldeneye 007 as a present I didn't think months prior about how I might hate it... so I guess... I like what I like and I'm not going to let anything get in the way of that.

THOUGH I'm also not saying don't voice your opinion. Go ahead and voice it. But I'm going to hold off from mine until I've played the game with friends in an offline environment even if some elements do sound sketchy. I'm going to love it regardless.

 

[MasterHavik]

If I'm having a fun time with the game I don't give a fuck how casual it is... not to mention we don't know all of the rules to this game so in my opinion you are spending too much time thinking about how it could go wrong and that's unhealthy.

Why I'm not worried - I've seen casuals play DOA6 already and they are horrible; horrible enough to say that break gauge definitely wont be used every second, so I'm not sure I agree that it's a casual element either.

For instance, if you were to fight XcaliburBladeZ in DOA5 at your best right now, you would more than likely lose. IS that going to change in DOA6? Probably not... why? Because he's going to master the mechanics given to him. So at the end of the day what's going to change? More people will win? Because to me that sounds like a great thing. I've done write-ups for almost every single offline tournament DOA5 had! Kwiggle dominated one year, Bladez another and Sweet another. I would love to see the mechanics go into a direction where we can see all types of different players winning tournaments.

I am more worried about the character that will be in the game... not to mention I heard the game was only 10% complete. I'm just failing to understand what some of you are not liking and I've watched every gameplay breakdown possible. When I received Goldeneye 007 as a present I didn't think months prior about how I might hate it... so I guess... I like what I like and I'm not going to let anything get in the way of that.

THOUGH I'm also not saying don't voice your opinion. Go ahead and voice it. But I'm going to hold off from mine until I've played the game with friends in an offline environment even if some elements do sound sketchy. I'm going to love it regardless.

I mean I'm to play it with the boys here in Chicago and online. I'll give it a fair shake, but after BBTAG I am starting to become worry about the future of fighters. I'm very aware of what happened in 5 too. SR and others kicked my butt ad I think may do that in 6 but who knows?

 

[Lulu]

To be fair... is it really "Dumbing Down" to remove something that didn't contribute to the game's depth in the first place ?

Would it be dumbed down if you couldn't pick your characters outfit, or disable Jiggle physics ?

Obviously the answer is no... but those were easy, non of that stuff has anything to do with gameplay... or does it ?

.. its when we start we start looking into which of the gameplay mechanics actually provide depth and which of them are just there because " X Mechanic Has always been a part of the series." That things start go all Caddywampus.

Because Fighting Games are chockful of some really unnecessary crap... and cutting it out isn't dumbing dowd anything... its just Streamlining the Experience.

Now heres where it gets tricky because you'd think we could all just sit down and have a nice discussion about what is contributing to the experience and what isn't... but we can't.... because The Fighting Game Community has a cult like mentality with cult like logic...

I'm sorry but its true.... Yall (not you guys specifically) can be abit crazy sometimes. Some things will only make sense to other members in the FGC and no where else. And if you try to reason with them they'l just say "You don't understand... you have to master X Technique for 5 Years to 'Get It'."

This is why you can't have a proper discussion about dumbing stuff down in the Fighting Games. The DP is the Ark of The Covenant and to even consider changing it is blasphemy of the highest degree and shall not be tolerated. Thats us... that's what we do.

 

[MasterHavik]

On a positive note: DOA5LR will always be there. If anything it actually just became more competitively viable because of the last patch. No more patches means a concrete version of the game actually exists & people can work hard towards a game that will not change.

Not getting off topic, but what did the patch change? Can you link me?

 

[Awesmic]

*a lot of vulgar language despite wanting to avoid using it*

Tutorials and the drive to want to learn are a two-way street. Much like acting on faith without putting in work, tutorials won't be effective if you're not driven or motivated to learn it in the first place. A decent tutorial (and to a greater extent, in-game frame data) just makes the understanding of advanced information for the driven players much smoother and easier so that the overall player base can level up faster over time. Killer Instinct and the latest Under Night game are excellent examples of that.

That being said, if wanting more options to ease the player to a better understanding of the game well enough to apply it makes me a "pussy", then that's the name-caller's problem. I know what I am and what I'm not, and you're over-generalizing those who would prefer an in-game tutorial in a fighting game they're unfamiliar with.

 

[MasterHavik]

Tutorials and the drive to want to learn are a two-way street. Much like acting on faith without putting in work, tutorials won't be effective if you're not driven or motivated to learn it in the first place. A decent tutorial (and to a greater extent, in-game frame data) just makes the understanding of advanced information for the driven players much smoother and easier so that the overall player base can level up faster over time. Killer Instinct and the latest Under Night game are excellent examples of that.

That being said, if wanting more options to ease the player to a better understanding of the game well enough to apply it makes me a "pussy", then that's the name-caller's problem. I know what I am and what I'm not, and you're over-generalizing those who would prefer an in-game tutorial in a fighting game they're unfamiliar with.

But these same people cry Tekken is too hard and when games try to go in depth they ate reward with lackluster turnouts at trounaments. These cry for tutorials but then don't follow up. I wish games would just show the basics and let you figure out everything else. That is what shooters do. Splatoon and Overwatch, for example, just show you the basic controls and leave you to figure out the rest. There's no special tutorial on how to climb walls at Lucio or proper dive as Winston. You need to learn as you go.

 

[Lulu]

Tutorials and the drive to want to learn are a two-way street. Much like acting on faith without putting in work, tutorials won't be effective if you're not driven or motivated to learn it in the first place.

The only way to solve this problem... is to use alil Deception like they did with the metroid.

I don't really understand why but people take serious issue with learning how something works... or at the very least... learning how to accept help when its being offered.

"No" they say "I don't want my hand held"...

I propose fighting games need to do what Nintendo is good at... Making players believe they are the the best in the world while secretly undermining them and leading them by the nose without them realising it...

Simply put... we neen a tutorial thats as comprehensive as Skull Girls, as inventive as Guilty Gear's and as Hidden as Portal 2's...

Hopefully by the time those players realise whats going on they will be hooked on Mix Ups and Footsies.

 

[MasterHavik]

That is actually a good idea Lulu.