The Art Style and Graphics Discussion

[Jadeinchains]

Yay! One thing I noticed about Meridian that I thought was a great inclusion is that at one point Aloy mentions that the city smells like spice when she's in the market. It's a small thing but I liked that they mentioned the sense of smell for the city. I feel like it added to it's atmosphere knowing that.

And lol when I first tried those elevators and they actually worked I was shocked! They take a while but that doesn't really matter since it's just so cool. Plus they're probably made for transporting goods and produce anyway rather than people.
It was actually Meridian and the Carja that got me to get Horizon in the first place. I'd only ever seen Aloy's tribe who are really stone age in my mind so I thought that was going to be how the entire game was and I wasn't that interested but when I saw that the world was more advanced it got me to buy it!

I loved the idea that in the middle of Colorado in the future a giant middle eastern type culture has sprouted up from the remains. Sadly It doesn't quite compete with the witchers cities since at least to me the witchers cities have more history behind them and are more open but Meridian is still amazing.

I really wish I could think of more Cities myself that I love from open world games. ( I can obviously think of cities I love from games in general but open world specifically not so much. )

dear god, right in the childhood.

Still one of the best video game opening movies of all time.

Lol it really is, That opening is perfect for getting super hyped up to play the game!

Speaking of which since I'd say it's on topic I'm trying to think of other game openings that are particularity on anyone's mind as one of the greatest? Or just great in general?

This always stuck out to me ( Yes it's MK again lol. I don't have an MK themed avatar and name for nothing. )

So hectic and crazy! This is I think every single MK character in history ( up till that point ) battling it out in one fight!

 

[Tyaren]

And lol when I first tried those elevators and they actually worked I was shocked! They take a while but that doesn't really matter since it's just so cool. Plus they're probably made for transporting goods and produce anyway rather than people.
It was actually Meridian and the Carja that got me to get Horizon in the first place. I'd only ever seen Aloy's tribe who are really stone age in my mind so I thought that was going to be how the entire game was and I wasn't that interested but when I saw that the world was more advanced it got me to buy it!

I love everything about the Carja in Horizon. They are such a beautifully designed people. Their lore (which is really elaborately explained in the game), their architecture, their costume designs...

And isn't the chanting of sun priests each morning from 6am -12pm hauntingly beautiful?

 

[Jadeinchains]

Yes! I love the priest/priestess clothes the Carja wear. It's so well detailed. It's kinda like the American people went back to Mayan days of worshiping the Sun in Horizon! And I love that top concept art you posted, I've never seen that before but it looks like some unseen giant robot camel or something? Lol I don't know but it looks amazing.

 

[Argentus]

okay so.

I've been on a huge Kinnikuman kick, so the Legends vs New Generation game on gamecube.

The actual GRAPHICS are nothing to write home about, but the music, video editing and presentation of the opening video still did a great job at hyping you up, imo.

Also, one of the greatest opening videos of ALL TIME, both visually, emotionally, and the music. Resident Evil: Outbreak

 

[Argentus]

Also sorry for the double post but we can only have 5 media in a single post so I have to do this as a continuation post.

Also in hindsight, the digimon games always have phenomenal opening vids. They graphics are always outstanding for their time, and the camera work, and stylized visuals, and music, and fighting scenes, get me every time.

Digimon World 1. painful to look at NOW, but remember this was basically a launch title for the ps1, so cut it some slack XD. Once it got to the fight it's still hype as fuck. and keep in mind this first game PREDATES the tv show, before things REALLY took off, so its based back when they were just a Tamagotchi style thing up until this game.

Digimon World 2. First off, i love the "Attack you through the tv" 4th wall breaking, but the combat in it is epic as hell too. Also, again, for ps1 graphics? Really damn good animation. Also, it turns out WereGarurumon would make a fucking terrifying bad guy, who knew?

Again, awesome camerawork to compensate for the simplistic CG.

Digimon World 3

two things in particular i want to point out here. 1) When Beelzemon is riding through town, i love how the buildings are warped to give a better sense of motion. Very nice touch. 2) That final image of them looking up at the final boss? That's some poster material right there, like Garudamon being coiled up but still fending off MetalSeadramon in the DW2 intro.

Digimon World Data Squad.

Again. the camera angle, the perspective, the sense of motion in every shot, i love it. The actual HUMANS look janky, but the monsters, i mean lol.

Digimon Story - Cyber Sleuth.

While it never had an actual intro, it did have promotional trailers

recent games mostly just use in game cutscenes for the intro so i'll skip those.

 

[Jadeinchains]

Okay I played a good amount of The Last Guardian today! I'm loving it so far and the story. I really like the two characters as well the boy and Trico, Trico is adorable too lol. Some times he doesn't listen but whatever. I took a lot of pictures too so here's some of them.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Argentus]

Okay I played a good amount of The Last Guardian today! I'm loving it so far and the story. I really like the two characters as well the boy and Trico, Trico is adorable too lol. Some times he doesn't listen but whatever. I took a lot of pictures too so here's some of them.

Spoiler

Spoiler

while trico and the environments are GORGEOUS, especially the outside segments, one thing i actually DIDNT like, is that the kid's cel shaded cartoony design looks incredibly out of place against everything else.

the other thing, is more gameplay in that i didnt even finish the game because every area is exactly the same so there's no sense of progression or anything.

 

[Tyaren]

the other thing, is more gameplay in that i didnt even finish the game because every area is exactly the same so there's no sense of progression or anything.

That is so not true, lol. If Jade is already a good way in (maybe even finished, considering how fast he usually is ) he can agree, that the game environments actually have a great and clearly visible sense of progression the higher and higher you get, leaving the deeper and darker areas slowly behind you, while you spiral upwards towards the "Nest". The architecture around you gets airier and more delicate.
There are a couple of setbacks, where you literally fall back, but overall that progression is defintely there and it feels very rewarding and exhilarating, to balance over the narrowest bridges and gliding from tower to tower towards the end.
In a documentation the developers pointed out, that everything you see, you will visit. Meaning, each time you step outside, you have these huge, imposing structures towering over you.

You will actually get to each one of these structures, even though it might take you a couple of hours, they are not just a fancy backdrop. Conversely, when you fought your way up to the top, you look down and you will, if you paid a little attention, point out all the locations that you came from. You literally see your progression.

To clarify, you don't climb all this up in one go. You will at one point get inside again and maybe one or two hours later emerge and find yourself a couple storeys higher.

Last but not least, the later environments switch completely in tone and style, which is story related though and I don't want say too much about that here yet.

 

[Jadeinchains]

Okay that's me completed it! It was actually pretty long. Thanks for recommending it Tyaren, I loved it. And after just playing I'd definitely agree there's a sense of accomplishment as you get outside and see the areas below you that uyou used to be at. So there really is a feeling of progress as you move up.

And yes for story reasons I won't say but it gets a very different feel as you go higher and higher.

And I won't say much about the ending but I did get emotional lol. This game was amazing!

 

[Tyaren]

Okay that's me completed it! It was actually pretty long. Thanks for recommending it Tyaren, I loved it. And after just playing I'd definitely agree there's a sense of accomplishment as you get outside and see the areas below you that uyou used to be at. So there really is a feeling of progress as you move up.

And yes for story reasons I won't say but it gets a very different feel as you go higher and higher.

And I won't say much about the ending but I did get emotional lol. This game was amazing!

I'm so glad you liked it...though you did totally rush it again. You basically played a 15 hours game in 24h. XD

Now that you are finished I think we could actually talk about the latter part of the game, as no one else here seems to be interested in playing the game...and it's by now many months old anyway. Though we could also just leave it be and talk in private about it.

Argentus, you seem to do that often, forming an opinion (often overcritical) about a game that you did either not play (Horizon) or that you played barely (The Witcher 3) or that you didn't even finish (The Last Guardian). I can vaguely remember more games that we discussed. As Someone who actually played these games, I often think your opinions are based on presumption and misinformation. Maybe be a bit more open and you'll see there are so many great games out there?

 

[Jadeinchains]

I'm so glad you liked it...though you did totally rush it again. You basically played a 15 hours game in 24h. XD

*coughs* @Chapstick made note of this too lol. I can't help it lol.

Now that you are finished I think we could actually talk about the latter part of the game, as no one else here seems to be interested in playing the game...and it's by now many months old anyway. Though we could also just leave it be and talk in private about it.

Argentus, you seem to do that often, forming an opinion (often overcritical) about a game that you did either not play (Horizon) or that you played barely (The Witcher 3) or that you didn't even finish (The Last Guardian). I can vaguely remember more games that we discussed. As Someone who actually played these games, I often think your opinions are based on presumption and misinformation. Maybe be a bit more open and you'll see there are so many great games out there?

We can just talk about it on private since I can't have any pics to post about it right now so It would probably go off topic lol. And yeah you should have gave it a chance Argentus, I'm not sure where you played up too but It was really good.

 

[Tyaren]

Here's by the way a great graphical/technical analysis of The Last Guardian by Digital Foundry. The game does actually a lot of amazing stuff and there is an interesting history of nine years behind it:

 

[Jadeinchains]

Omg yeah that actually reminded me the first time Trico actually displaced the water by jumping into it I was amazed! It actually washed me away lol!

 

[Argentus]

I'm so glad you liked it...though you did totally rush it again. You basically played a 15 hours game in 24h. XD

Now that you are finished I think we could actually talk about the latter part of the game, as no one else here seems to be interested in playing the game...and it's by now many months old anyway. Though we could also just leave it be and talk in private about it.

Argentus, you seem to do that often, forming an opinion (often overcritical) about a game that you did either not play (Horizon) or that you played barely (The Witcher 3) or that you didn't even finish (The Last Guardian). I can vaguely remember more games that we discussed. As Someone who actually played these games, I often think your opinions are based on presumption and misinformation. Maybe be a bit more open and you'll see there are so many great games out there?

it's not a matter of "misinformation", it's just different taste in games.

To clarify
Didn't catch my interest (Horizon). I wouldn't mind trying it on sale or for free, but nothing about it appealed to me, so I can't justify paying a lot for it.
Got bored playing it (Witcher). Just couldn't get into it.
Didnt like how every area was the same (Last Guardian).

On the last one, yeah cool that you are steadily climbing, I did notice that, but that didn't change how every area was exactly the same. Go inside, its statue guys in the samey ruins. go outside, its tightropes and dropping glass eyes. I was all excited when

Spoiler

you get the shield that lets you shoot electricity, thinking that meant you'd get more abilities as you play, but then it was almost immediately taken away and from thereon out every area was exactly the same up to the point where i stopped playing (When the other evil trico things attacked me and separated us, i stopped shortly after reuniting.)

the game is beautiful, and fun, but repetitive as all hell with no variety. for comparison, it's like if back in Shadow of the Colossus, if all 16 colossi were the exact same. I still wanna finish it, but I HAD To take a break from it.




Side note, I went back to Digimon to finish that (I've been playing too many games at once lately, not actually finishing enough, so i'm trying to fix that, and I love the sheer variety of the environments. for being a remastered Vita game for ps4, it's downright GORGEOUS.

Omg yeah that actually reminded me the first time Trico actually displaced the water by jumping into it I was amazed! It actually washed me away lol!

that was cool. only ever seen a couple other games with water physics like that before.

 

[Tyaren]

it's not a matter of "misinformation", it's just different taste in games.

You claim bullshit about games that you have not or not properly played and that you do not properly know. You can't play the but everyone has a different taste or opinion -card here.

Lemme put the rest of this post in spoilers to not derail the thread again:

Spoiler

Let's look at the very post that I was calling out:

...the other thing, is more gameplay in that i didnt even finish the game because every area is exactly the same so there's no sense of progression or anything.

What you do here is making two BS claims and selling them as facts. At best it is misinformed, because you don't know any better, at worst its just simple lies, because you actually know it isn't true.

Regarding the "exact same" areas:
The areas are not exactly the same. Even if there were just two different areas, the inside and the outside, which are very different from each other, alone that makes not every area exactly the same.
The areas you explore will change and transform into something very different over the course of the game and you will even explore a fucking alien structure.

Regarding "no sense of progression":
You stand on a 300 metre tall tower and beneath you every place you have been to in the last couple of hours is visible. You can trace where you exited the caves, where you went back in again, where you came out again, where you have been attacked by another Trico, where a bridge collapsed under your weight, where a dozen guards trapped you, where you took a leap of faith from a tower. You climb, fight and puzzle-solve your way from the deepest caves to the highest towers and from there to an alien structure. That is progression. Even Trico not just mentally but physically progresses. His horns grow, one breaks off in a furious battle, another time he's riddled with spears, then he seems to have lost one eye, then his tail gets ripped off, then he learns to fly. That all is a sense of progression that Fumito Ueda pointed out as something that was of utmost importance to him designing this game.

What you claimed is factually not true and different tastes or opinions don't cut it and I will keep calling you out on your BS.

To get back on track:
Something that I ask myself for a while now, is how the art style in the next Dead or Alive will progress. I still think Nioh is a pretty good example to look at in that regard. There they went for full realism and gave Asian characters Asian facial features:

Do you guys think Kasumi, Ayane, Momiji, Hayate, Ryu etc. might actually look properly Asian in the next DOA?
Might look a bit strange to see a redhead and pink haired Japanese girl with all kinds of strange eye colors on top of that.

 

[Tyaren]

Oh, there is definitely stuff to improve even if they stay with the visual stylistic that they use for DOA5. Obviously they can upgrade the stages and their textures and geometry, which look frankly terrible in DOA5:

The use of proper anisotropic filtering would have done a lot for DOA5 Last Round too and should totally be possible on PS4. It was actually possible on PS3 and Xbox360 versions of DOA5. Yep, the texture filtering actually got worse.

PS4:

Xbox360:

Notice how the floor is a lot less blurry in the distance here?

Then they could finally bring the male character models on par with the female ones what polygon geometry is concerned. No more PS2 Hayabusas:

And then there is the lighting model, which is still fake and doesn't use proper real time shadow maps.

 

[Jadeinchains]

I don't know her name since I haven't played Nioh but I absolutely love his they designed that female character, ( she reminds me of A chan from perfume actually... ) I like the ultra realistic style they went Edith for Nioh, it also shows that they can do that design wise.

I'd be fine if they continued the style they have now but I would love to see them update doa's visuals on a similar way to Nioh ( even better though obviously since it would be newer. I think it could work well. Give the Asian characters more distinctly Asian features while still staying true to their face shape in general. And give other characteristic face shapes that suit them as well that are more realistic.

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

To get back on track:
Something that I ask myself for a while now, is how the art style in the next Dead or Alive will progress. I still think Nioh is a pretty good example to look at in that regard. There they went for full realism and gave Asian characters Asian facial features:

Do you guys think Kasumi, Ayane, Momiji, Hayate, Ryu etc. might actually look properly Asian in the next DOA?
Might look a bit strange to see a redhead and pink haired Japanese girl with all kinds of strange eye colors on top of that.

I can totally see that happening and I imagine it would look great ^_^ but then I think about the feedback about Hitomi's appearance in DOA5 Alpha demo, but that could be different idk.

 

[Tyaren]

I can totally see that happening and I imagine it would look great ^_^ but then I think about the feedback about Hitomi's appearance in DOA5 Alpha demo, but that could be different idk.

Hitomi looked weird though. Long nose, derpy eyes and jug ears. As long as the characters stay attractive, I don't think fans would mind Asian features much. Aren't many of the DOA fans fetishizing cute Japanese girls anyway? >__>

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

That is very true. Most of the most popular DOA girls are Asian, too. Biggest proof is the DOAX3 poll, especially the Japanese one (no surprise lol) I was just getting a little all 'aaaaah what if this what if that' sorry lol