The DOA Festival Experience

[Mr.Kwiggle]

Now that I finally can make this post, I have to say the DOA festival was easily one of the best experiences I've ever had. Aside from the fact that I'm was in Tokyo, the players over there also showed me something-how far a majority of the players here in the usa are behind.

Aside from the top players over there, even the average players that I watched throughout the day displayed better mastery over the game than a lot of players here in terms of fundamentals. From fuzzy guarding, to slow escaping the fastest I've ever seen-even slow escaping setups I thought were guaranteed, to downright utilizing the triangle system and sidestepping. Everything was fascinating to see how differently they played.

Now this isn't meant to insult anyone but since I have played and seen both sides now I honestly believe the average players over there would give players here a beating. The characters that we don't see often over here I saw being played at high level over in Tokyo. Not just mashing buttons or spamming but calculated, showing they studied their character in depth and have broken them down, knowing the ins and outs. That's something that I don't see much back here. I love seeing people that specialize in characters and show off their true potential and numerous players used several of the same characters at high level, where as back here it seems like there are only a handful of people that specialize in one or two characters while the rest don't show anything their characters can besides mash.

I really feel that the USA is behind besides the top players and a few above average players.

This is probably my favorite aspect of the trip. Something I noticed over in Tokyo is that players are not salty and simply enjoy the game. This means that they enjoy the matches no matter who's playing or what character is playing. They cheer and hype up the matches in between rounds whether a person is winning or losing. You'll never hear them say they hate xyz character or they don't want to watch a match because characters they don't like are fighting. They have a team spirit over there that players here lack. If players here lose, they get mad, stop playing, talk badly about the game, etc.. Where over in Japan if you beat someone, they are eager to keep playing and learning, figuring out ways to adapt. They provide a challenge. Now that's not to say players here don't do that but a majority do not and will not.

I would just have to say in closing the players here need to step it up because after what I saw over there, a lot of players here are in trouble. We can't say we're the best in the world and then not prove it so get out there and show em what it means to say I'm a fighter!!!!!!

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Yea that is true. PR Balrog mentioned this before when he played SF in Japan. The Japanese FGC is different compared to the US FGC.

 

[system11]

This is probably my favorite aspect of the trip. Something I noticed over in Tokyo is that players are not salty and simply enjoy the game. This means that they enjoy the matches no matter who's playing or what character is playing. They cheer and hype up the matches in between rounds whether a person is winning or losing. You'll never hear them say they hate xyz character or they don't want to watch a match because characters they don't like are fighting. They have a team spirit over there that players here lack. If players here lose, they get mad, stop playing, talk badly about the game, etc.. Where over in Japan if you beat someone, they are eager to keep playing and learning, figuring out ways to adapt. They provide a challenge. Now that's not to say players here don't do that but a majority do not and will not.

A lot of truth in this. I honestly think it's cultural.

While I've been a fan of DOA since the first game (I actually own a DOA++ arcade kit too), fighting games aren't my strong point so I'm a long term casual level player. Even with the limited amount of time I've spent playing online in public lobbies, I've seen (and been a victim of) people being booted for being too good or too bad. Nobody seems to care about anything other than whether they personally are winning or not, few people even bother to tap out 'GG' after a match or session. Instead, a friend of mine has multiple salty PSN messages in screenshots, at least one from someone on this site which is disappointing. As a side note I've also seen a lot of people booted for spectating even when the lobby isn't full. You should be happy people are enjoying watching you enjoy a game and booting people for bullshit reasons sends a really poor message about the community.

It's not just fighting games either - rewind several years to when Midnight Club 2 and 3 were popular games and in that game I was top tier, only a small handful of people on the servers could trade wins with me. The amount of abuse I'd regularly see was amazing, hardly anyone would stick with it or ask for advice which I was happy to give. Most would insult -> ragequit, or worse insult -> disrupt the game for everyone else. One threatened to fuck my dog. I don't even have a dog.

In competitive games I think the problem here is something to do with alpha male mentality - it's not about gaming, developing yourself or having fun, it's about having your existance validated through victory (especially over others). Then again this extends to even single player games too, difficult games frequently get negative comments from gamers and press alike.

This is interesting because if you really rewind to the days of classic arcades (before SF2 existed ), there was a spirit of competition and just playing games - I couldn't tell you how many times I ended up playing arcade games with or against total strangers at the arcade back then. The games were also harder yet nobody went home crying because they'd failed to beat Double Dragon again. I actually did beat that one in the end on a credit. Yay me.

The West/Japan skill level gap is also real - I actually run the 'shmups' forum, it's for fans of arcade shooting games, and while there's no way to directly compete in this type of game (mostly), people do compete through high scores and good Western scores are simply at a lower average than good Japanese ones, which make up the bulk of all world records.

Players can help to improve this. Don't ragequit. Don't sent abusive messages. Don't whine because someone spams a single move that you keep walking into. Don't kick someone because you think they're not good enough to hang with you. If you only want to play with some friends don't make it public and then kick people out while waiting. If someone is a problem (like a bad connection) ask them politely to leave. Do send nice messages. Do share tips with other players either in game or on forums. Don't play the game just to win, play because you enjoy it.

Finally and I just remembered to say this - congrats on the win at the festival and good job to all of the guys who went to Japan to represent the rest of the world. I actually watched it all live (and the 5v5 tournament next day) and it was really enjoyable. That Akira...

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I really feel that the USA is behind besides the top players and a few above average players.

Yes! I'm so happy someone else could see this and say this publicly, because it's the absolute truth. I have been telling a lot of players this for awhile now. Another thing I'll add to this, is that too many of our players like to say we (the U.S.) are the best because our top players are very good. That does not imply the U.S. as a whole or majority is strong, at all. All that implies is that some of us top players are strong (and are still getting better).

Last thing I would like to add to this is; Japan scene as a majority spend time helping each other level up. And that's mostly due to their easy access to offline play. Here in the U.S. however, our players are not the most helpful when it comes to leveling each other up. Yes, some of us help players out and try to help them improve, but there isn't enough of us doing this. Most of us (as in us top players) do not do anything to help our players either, only about 2-3 of us actually do.

Our players have shown that they do not care about each other, they do not care to help the player base understand the game better or learn actual fighting game fundamentals. Again, some of us do help our players but the amount of us that do, is simply not enough to change things for the better, at all.

And this is a big reason why the U.S. is, what I believe, far behind the above average and top players here in the states. And the average players in Japan. Its also due to the fact that, since our top players do not care, everyone else mainly wants to just play online. When instead we are supposed to do what we can to encourage our scene to play offline more (anywhere, locally, tournaments, etc) and show them why this game is a lot of fun to play offline with everyone else.

(Every time I watch some Smash/Melee documentaries, I just envy their community strength and passion so much)

 

[Alcyone]

Can someone elaborate on this "slow escape set-ups" stuff?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

He means that players are stagger escaping certain set ups that are seemingly guaranteed. But they really aren't. Some set ups that are usually strong and give a lot of options can be stagger escaped at fastest stagger to escape them.

An example would be when Helena does 214T to you and it angles you toward the wall with your back towards her. She does BKO 6P4P which will give her the full string, damage and wall slam for a juggle. You can escape this seemingly guaranteed set up by stagger escaping at fastest, then holding the 4P portion of BKO 6P4P.

 

[RenderingStar]

YES BITCH LET US KNOW!

 

[ModusPwnins]

This is making my heart jump through my chest. Visiting Japan in less than 24 hours and I'm both nervous and excited. Awesome post and I agree, they really just have fun with the game instead of turning it into some kind of alpha male pissing contest. And that's always cool.

 

[Mr.Kwiggle]

Another example would be gen fus sit down stuns. Evey player over there was escaping is 33p sit down stuns free, and I even watched someone escape a launch set up from bass. I don't know the Input but he does a kick that puts you in a sit down followed by 33p as the launch. Players were slow escaping and blocking stuff like that which you just don't see here. And their fuzzy guarding was ridiculous. Only way you could throw them is if they countered.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

First I'd like to say congratulations for winning the DOA Festival Exhibition tournament Kwiggle. Very impressive play was on display.

Secondly, I am happy to hear that you experienced firsthand the differences between the Japanese DOA scene and the Western DOA scene. I'm envious of that actually lol, but am planning a trip to Japan in the future so I can too experience some of the awesomeness that I've heard of the Japanese FGC (and to indulge my inner weeaboo).

I have nothing but unadulterated respect for the way how the Japanese play DOA and other fighting games. They just go into everything with the right attitude and enjoy the games for what they are, while levelling themselves up to be the best that they can at it. I pretty much know why they don't whine about characters like GenFu or Christie. Because they learn their weaknesses instead.

I will concede that developing offline communities can be incredibly exasperating and frustrating, but if everyone tries to do their part in some way to further the average play level of the DOA community in general, it would be a much more productive place.

It's mostly a mentality issue more than anything. A lot of Western players need to get their heads out of their asses and step things up.

 

[Doa_Eater]

I think you went overboard with modesty but ggs, you're the best.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Another example would be gen fus sit down stuns. Evey player over there was escaping is 33p sit down stuns free, and I even watched someone escape a launch set up from bass. I don't know the Input but he does a kick that puts you in a sit down followed by 33p as the launch. Players were slow escaping and blocking stuff like that which you just don't see here. And their fuzzy guarding was ridiculous. Only way you could throw them is if they countered.

BT 4K 33P is -16 at fastest. most just dont realize it's his only sds not guaranteeing 33P, or are too in shock on being hit to SE in time.

 

[CatzDaLegit]

In Japan, arcades, fighting games, paper rock scissors, tournaments are ubiquitous. They want to beat you, but they're happy to praise you if you win and even if you lose. More than half of them claim to not be good at the game even though a ton of them are monsters.

At the D-1 Ultimate Climax Blade tournament, during grand finals, Flack, a top player, when given the chance to speak on the mic (they let the top finishers of a tournament talk on the mic before grand finals starts), basically said "I'm not very good at speeches, I'll let my skill speak for itself." and quickly handed the mic off. Even though this was probably the shortest 'speech' I've ever seen from a Japanese player in grand finals, and I've seen a few, I think it was really telling.

They seem to play the game just because they like it, not for a weird sense of credibility or approval from everyone else. Bashing the game or hating on the community probably doesn't even register as an option to their way of thinking. It's just not an issue.

By the way, after the tournament, everyone got together and played even more DOA in arcades, we went out to eat, and come to find out, I saw people returning to the arcade AGAIN to get some last matches in before the trains/arcade closed.

You don't think about it, but imagine paying basically a dollar per match in DOA (unless you're winning you can stay on the machine of course) because that's how it is. And to think they all had probably already bought the game, probably bought some DLC here and there. Video games are definitely a hobby, but you see a lot of dedicated people in Japanese arcades. You see people putting money into super old 1 player games they could easily ROM/emulate at home.

 

[system11]

I'd still put money into arcade machines if any existed around here - it's 60 miles to the nearest city with what's left of an arcade in it! That's why my house is full of them - emulating just isn't the same.

Japanese players are lucky still having some places they can go to for games, although a lot of the smaller game centers have closed. A friend of mine living in Tokyo has seen discarded cabinets out the back of shops on numerous occasions.

 

[Sly Bass]

I'm awesome. K thxs.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I thought this was self evident that the average player level everywhere else is much higher than the US. For many obvious reasons. Much more compact areas with great communal areas and a culture of showing your lessers how to get better. US is spread out has a delusional mindset of American exceptionalism bullshit, and a bigger tendancy to get clicqush. That said DOA seems less prone to the cliques than sf and marvel(Was so happy when KBR beat America just to laugh) got.

 

[Omega Ayane]

I love that you pointed out the difference in the culture aspect in both areas at tourneys. All I saw was happiness and encouragement! They were so hype and it was amazing to watch. Even though I couldn't understand the commentators or anything, it was just nice to see all the players having fun together and hyping each other up.

 

[Hold_Junkie93]

2 words, Kwiggs... Virtua Fighter

 

[VirtuaKazama]

2 words, Kwiggs... Virtua Fighter

He knows what's up.

 

[Awesmic]

They seem to play the game just because they like it, not for a weird sense of credibility or approval from everyone else. Bashing the game or hating on the community probably doesn't even register as an option to their way of thinking. It's just not an issue.

The root of that "weird sense of credibility or approval" stems from favoritism and/or elitism here, which in turn gives newer or lesser-known players little to no chance at acceptance.

You can like a game all you want, but some people are so unreasonable and problematic with certain players that they won't even let you live down a loss (and sometimes not even a victory depending on what means you achieve it). After a while of hearing other people labeling you all sorts of things other than a good player simply because you lost, won a certain way, or simply weren't good enough in their eyes, it begins to take a toll on you mentally... even to a point where you feel that you need credibility or approval from the community to feel like you're a legit player, let alone someone supporting a community sufficiently enough.