SilverForte
Well-Known Member
1p changes his game dramatically, and neutral 3p truly, his close range game is a lot better now.
Community The Evolution of The Karate Master
- Thread starter Zeo
- Start date
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
All in All, Ein will be fairly solid in Last Round.
Mind you, he's STILL not up to scratch compared to the rest of the roster but he stands more of a chance now compared to 5U. I wouldn't say he's boosted too far in the tiers but the 1P, 6P and 3P changes have let him climb to a high C at the very least.
Thus, he'll be far more manageable in 5LR.
Mind you, he's STILL not up to scratch compared to the rest of the roster but he stands more of a chance now compared to 5U. I wouldn't say he's boosted too far in the tiers but the 1P, 6P and 3P changes have let him climb to a high C at the very least.
Thus, he'll be far more manageable in 5LR.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
I would put Ein at mid tier with these changes. If you guys still think he is low tier you have to take another look at his Oki and Wall game. His wall game and wall oki shit on alot of characters in the cast.
Our 1K and 7P are really strong tools that seem to get underrated.
Our 1K and 7P are really strong tools that seem to get underrated.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
I actually wanted to say low B, but I wan't too sure on everything else so I just said high C as a safety option.
I'd be happy to say he's low mid though he's pretty solid now, where as in 5U you had to put in so much work for little gain, in 5LR there's some more leniency now thanks to 1P, neutral 3P and now the 6P refloat.
On the 17th, like everyone else in this thread I'm gonna have to download LR Core Fighters and play around with all the new possibilities.
Number 13
Well-Known Member
Overall this was better then I thought. Probably because I was pessimistic as hell and kept expectations low. Not all of these changes are just minor damage buffs.
TN is not insane enough to nerf Ein so this is good to see. They could have done more assuming this is final, but I can work with this now since it wouldn't feel like I'm playing with one hand tied behind my back as much now.
Did Ein worst matchups get any noticable nerfs?
TN is not insane enough to nerf Ein so this is good to see. They could have done more assuming this is final, but I can work with this now since it wouldn't feel like I'm playing with one hand tied behind my back as much now.
Did Ein worst matchups get any noticable nerfs?
The list in general had more buffs than nerfs. If anything his worst matchups got slightly harder to deal with (everybody has an issue with Christie not made any better. No knockback on anything of hers, stupid decisions. Seriously.) but I think right now it depends on what exactly 6P is capable of doing. If it acts like the refloat we think it will be then it is one as big as 3P on NH.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
Let's not get ahead of ourselves.... Ein still has a good bit of issues here like the lack of consistent (before it was any) guaranteed damage but 1P helps completely upgrade his CQC game. His damage output is untouched (Seriously 9KK and 3KKK? lol) but if 6P causes a refloat in any sort of relevant situation we could be looking at a damage buff to some BnBs with PPP's damage buff on top of it.
I think these changes carry him out of the dumpster but to say he's mid tier is a bit of a stretch imo. Other characters were nerfed a tad but until further notice I'd say this puts Ein in the high points of low tier. tail end of mid tier at best. If we're going from S to E tier (with Ein/P4/Eliot in E) I'd put Ein somewhere in C tier.
I think these changes carry him out of the dumpster but to say he's mid tier is a bit of a stretch imo. Other characters were nerfed a tad but until further notice I'd say this puts Ein in the high points of low tier. tail end of mid tier at best. If we're going from S to E tier (with Ein/P4/Eliot in E) I'd put Ein somewhere in C tier.
JAG THE GEMINI
Active Member
I´m with Zeo on this. Ein has still problems to overcome other chars don´t have. He is still VERY predictible, has mediocre speed and damage at best and should just be OK now in QCQ but that´s not good either. It will take some time to see how the changes REALLY affect him.
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UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Either way, fact is Last Round Ein won't be AS much work and we'll likely have slightly less one sided MUs now.
Except Christie.. she will forever dominate me ;~;
Except Christie.. she will forever dominate me ;~;
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TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Honestly the only way I'd truly accept those damage increases to 9kk and 3kkk as something viable is if the hitbox on the strikes were fixed to make it a usable ender in combos. That being the case, I'd be somewhat satisfied because no one else has enders like that Except JL and often you're better off with 6pk to get back at mid range...
As for the changes. I mean most everything is solid.
1P needs no introduction or explanation.
6P seems to have gained some float properties which is nice. I would rather seen a new move, like him stepping forward with a Palm to the face instead of the backhand since it seems that 9pp for Hayate is staying. Just my opinion. Cool change overall.
It make have been said already but 3p becoming 0 on NH is revolutionary. This means something new for his offense especially against people who love to throw out holds/offensive holds then mash on a failed attempt. I love this.
I already spoke on 9kk and 3kkk but the reality is that the real change this move needed was to be semi safe on block. Since it jails on the hop kicks. There's no reason to just throw it out. By giving it the safety it made it reasonable. You'll never see a 9kk or 3kkk see the light of day So buffing the damage without adding to prior mentioned changes makes the damage increase useless.
Upgrading ppp helps out with heavy weight juggles and especially the launch off of 214k (which only really gives ppp).
The 236p change seems to refer to the animation or the input itself. Regardless it's fine either way. Most likely it's for the better.
Eins looking better but while I did want him to become solid like Tenryuga wanted, I personally wanted more so to see an advancement of his character and moveset.
But that's ok. I'll probably just be playing other characters and if any of the things happened to 9kk or 3kkk Like I stated, I'll still use Ein but the change log doesn't seem to offer anything interesting for me... Nor does the game... Except costumes.
We'll see.
#LongLiveEin
As for the changes. I mean most everything is solid.
1P needs no introduction or explanation.
6P seems to have gained some float properties which is nice. I would rather seen a new move, like him stepping forward with a Palm to the face instead of the backhand since it seems that 9pp for Hayate is staying. Just my opinion. Cool change overall.
It make have been said already but 3p becoming 0 on NH is revolutionary. This means something new for his offense especially against people who love to throw out holds/offensive holds then mash on a failed attempt. I love this.
I already spoke on 9kk and 3kkk but the reality is that the real change this move needed was to be semi safe on block. Since it jails on the hop kicks. There's no reason to just throw it out. By giving it the safety it made it reasonable. You'll never see a 9kk or 3kkk see the light of day So buffing the damage without adding to prior mentioned changes makes the damage increase useless.
Upgrading ppp helps out with heavy weight juggles and especially the launch off of 214k (which only really gives ppp).
The 236p change seems to refer to the animation or the input itself. Regardless it's fine either way. Most likely it's for the better.
Eins looking better but while I did want him to become solid like Tenryuga wanted, I personally wanted more so to see an advancement of his character and moveset.
But that's ok. I'll probably just be playing other characters and if any of the things happened to 9kk or 3kkk Like I stated, I'll still use Ein but the change log doesn't seem to offer anything interesting for me... Nor does the game... Except costumes.
We'll see.
#LongLiveEin
Launch times are always the best to play cause of instant queues and a lot of returning people. ;-)
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
I hear helena got hit by the nerf bat hard. No word on christie but 1P is a tool that will greatly aid us in that MU since before all we had were hard reads with H+K / 2H+K, low OH or low throw to stop JAK. The two strikes are way too slow to be using in CQC. 1P gives us a fast reliable crush attack to get her off our nuts.
3P being neutral on hit means that we no longer have to go on the defense despite hitting someone....depending on the MU. Still neutral is WAY better than -2.
3P being neutral on hit means that we no longer have to go on the defense despite hitting someone....depending on the MU. Still neutral is WAY better than -2.
So how do we even know that the new 1P will be a great move? Is it like Tina and Hitomi's 1P? I haven't seen the move in action, but it sounds like Team NINJA is taking him into a better direction. I've always enjoyed Ein depending on my mood. If I feel like spacing he is always a great choice.
How does Team NINJA prepare to make him better for competitive play? @JayceeChris killed it with Ein at Winter Session, but smart players like Gehaktbal knew to keep his guard with Ein and knew to play as patient as he could. Of course an experienced DOA5 Ein will confuse a novice. I think that Ein is very hard to use competitively and that is demonstrated from the few times I've seen him used at offline tournaments.
How does Team NINJA prepare to make him better for competitive play? @JayceeChris killed it with Ein at Winter Session, but smart players like Gehaktbal knew to keep his guard with Ein and knew to play as patient as he could. Of course an experienced DOA5 Ein will confuse a novice. I think that Ein is very hard to use competitively and that is demonstrated from the few times I've seen him used at offline tournaments.
Shinko Li
Member
Ouh (: thanksm
Zeo
Well-Known Member
I agree completely, JC is an extremely competent player but against players of equal or greater skill Ein will always be a struggle in his current state. Although with the changes coming in LR I think it will be just a bit easier for Ein to hang at higher levels. But only if players commit to him the way they commit to their mains. JayCee is probably the most formidable Ein player out there right now, It will be interesting to see what he does with the new changes and if they're enough to motivate anyone else to train hard with him.
1P will be a Godsend, DOAN. We got the stats on it through a stream. It is i16 a high crushing low that tracks. It's -4 on NH (One of the safest 1Ps around.) and +16 on CH with a standing stun that allows him to follow up with jab or i13 mid. Additionally Hayate's 1P allows for a guaranteed 33K launch after CH in water so Ein will be able to do the same as his 33K is the same i15 frames. This gives Ein his first dose of guaranteed damage through CH 1P > 33K > 3P > PP6PK in water which is huge. Not to mention opening up opportunities after a blocked 3P, NH 2P as well as matchup shifts.