The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Matt Ponton]

It was bound to happen sooner or later, although I'd prefer later, but use this thread to view and discuss the most recent tier list.

As a reminder, a tier list does not dictate the winner of a match. It is only a guide used to compare one character's given options throughout a match with the options of another character in the same match. Picking a low tier character does not mean the player is guaranteed to lose against a player picking a high tier character. It simply means that the player playing a lower tier character will have less tools or less options at their disposal than their opponent.

We will be posting the future tier lists based off a character match-up table. You can locate the latest update here as a Google Spreadsheet.

A match up chart is a way to see how a specific character fares against another, presuming all other variables are equal between the players. In addition, it is also presuming that both players are playing the game at its highest level and are completely "on point" throughout the matches. The numbers range from one to nine, where the sum of the two will total ten. A 5-5 match up means the match is completely balanced and can go either way for either character, as every ten matches has one character win five and the other character win the other five. A 9-1 match up means the match is heavily favored towards one character where the opposing character has a very little chance of winning. There is no 10-0 match up.

When the community feels that the match-ups have been set and are generally well agreed upon, then the tier list will be posted based off of that match-up chart. My current aim is to have a new list - if applicable - every three to six months.

If applicable, I will post the Japanese tier lists... if I ever see them (I have never).

So please, begin the (civil) discussions!

Based on the current in progress match-up chart, here are the current tiers:
July 22, 2013 10:23 PM (GMT - 5)
S: Leifang, Christie, Ayane, Kasumi, Sarah
A: Jann Lee, Akira, Pai
B: ALPHA-152, Gen Fu, Mila, (Ryu) Hayabusa
C: Brad Wong, Helena, Hitomi, Hayate, Lisa, Bayman
D: Kokoro, Tina, Rig, Zack, Bass, Eliot

Currently, the following are marked Final Draft: Akira, Ayane, Bass, Bayman, Christie, Eliot, Hitomi, Kokoro, Leifang, Rig, Pai, Sarah, and Zack. All other characters are still in progress although practically close to final draft due to the other characters in a final draft state.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Ah, nice. Some breathing room.

Anyways, let's try this again, and try to keep it on topic.

For example:

Hayate vs Helena: I believe the advantage in this match goes towards Helena due to her amazing force tech game and options after force teching. Even if she doesn't force tech, the teching opponent is left at a disadvantage anyways. Most of Hayate's best tools are very slow in comoparison and are high/mid pokes which Helena can easily avoid once she's in bokuho. Additionally, after a force tech (or not) she can be starting in bokuho.

For another discussion, how about we talk about environmental advantages? What are the characters that take advantage of a ceiling? Their max damage output? Advantage on walls? Slippery Slopes? Knockbacks (to Danger Zones)? etc.

Right now there's 3 stages that have a ceiling, 2 that have cliff hangers, 1 that is entirely slippery surface, at least two stage transitions that have sloped terrain.

 

[Jefffcore]

I'll add some I'm sure of.

Mila vs. Helena: I'd say this goes to Mila easily. Obviously Helena without her pseudo doesn't have a lot, and Mila can back dash right out of it with no difficulty. Helena doesn't have any good tools for range either, Mila can keep her out with 3H+K and 4H+K, and 2H+K pretty easily. Up close Mila is faster with better options also.

Mila vs. Bass: Again, I think this goes to Mila. Like Helena's pseudo, Mila can backdash out of all Bass's pick ups, and she shuts him down upclose just because she's faster.

Mila vs. Hitomi: I think this is in Mila's favor, too. Mila is faster than 'Tomi, and can completely ignore any high/low mixups in her strings with 3H+K, (It crushes high and low when Mila is at disadvantage) or with her SS tackle. Hitomi has to stick to single pokes to open up Mila, and that's difficult when Mila is faster, safer, and has better crushes. Mila's throw options are also a whole lot better.

I think it goes without saying that Mila's damage is better than all of these.

 

[DR2K]

Which character in this game is really "low tier"? What is low tier in this game? Is guaranteed damage all that it's cracked up to be? If so then why can a guess based character like Helena do so well?

Mila vs. Helena: I'd say this goes to Mila easily. Obviously Helena without her pseudo doesn't have a lot, and Mila can back dash right out of it with no difficulty. Helena doesn't have any good tools for range either, Mila can keep her out with 3H+K and 4H+K, and 2H+K pretty easily. Up close Mila is faster with better options also.

Helena has some pretty solid crushes up close and her Bokuho shuts down Mila's tackle game. I doubt Mila can backdash out of disadvantage, which she'll constantly be put in. Helena does have tools to deal with spacing. Such as SS K and 66k.

 

[Jefffcore]

Mila can do the fuzzy backdash thing from her pseudo and get out. Mila's highs are slow, they aren't the most useful of her strikes, and Helena isn't doing anything against Mila's mids or lows. Mila's 2p also gives her +1 and fucks up Helena cause she's slow.

 

[DR2K]

Mila can do the fuzzy backdash thing from her pseudo and get out. Mila's highs are slow, they aren't them most useful of her strikes, and Helena isn't doing anything against Mila's mids or lows. Mila's 2p also gives her +1 and fucks up Helena cause she's slow.

So can she backdash fast enough from tech and avoid the BKO sweep? Seems good in an open space, does jack shit against a wall.

P+K and BKO duck deal with mids, especially ones without low extensions. Which Mila lacks.

 

[Moritsuna]

Is brad wong low tier because he has so many moves and it's hard to utilize them all or is he just underplayed?

 

[Jefffcore]

6pk is a low mid, and 2p is a low that gives +1 and stands you back up.

 

[DR2K]

6pk is a low mid, and 2p is a low that gives +1 and stands you back up.

I didn't say she didn't have any I just meant that she doesn't have a lot of low extensions from her strings like Leifang/Hitomi for example. I think the match up is pretty even, but this back dash tech may change that.

 

[Jefffcore]

Ok, assuming Helena stuns or launches, what's she doing? Her damage isn't anything compared to Mila's, and she can't use her pseudo.

Her P+K isn't going to crush any of Mila's mids, she has to go into BKO to duck them. That's one option.

 

[DR2K]

Ok, assuming Helena stuns or launches, what's she doing? Her damage isn't anything compared to Mila's, and she can't use her pseudo.

Her P+K isn't going to crush any of Mila's mids, she has to go into BKO to duck them. That's one option.

Her damage isn't much compared to almost every other character, but being able to initate the stun system seems to be more than enough to keep her competitive.

P+K will crush some high-mids.

 

[Master Ari]

Is brad wong low tier because he has so many moves and it's hard to utilize them all or is he just underplayed?

"If" people say he's low tier then definitely not because he has to many moves.
Maybe because he's too slow or because some people just don't know how to make a good use of his trantitions and evades.
Eather way... he is not a low tier anymore imo; so far I would say he's a solid mid character

 

[Jefffcore]

Her damage isn't much compared to almost every other character, but being able to initate the stun system seems to be more than enough to keep her competitive.

P+K will crush some high-mids.

Mila only has 2 high mids that I can think of, and I wouldn't use them outside critical

I can take 2/3rds of your health if i guess right from her psuedo

 

[Matt Ponton]

Mila vs. Bass: Again, I think this goes to Mila. Like Helena's pseudo, Mila can backdash out of all Bass's pick ups, and she shuts him down upclose just because she's faster.

I think it goes without saying that Mila's damage is better than all of these.

Thanks for properly participating.

I think that the Mila/Bass matchup is 5-5 at best, and 6-4 at worst (in Mila's favor). She obviously has the speed advantage, but like Bass she isn't really meant to play a string game. However, I think she has the advantage in string play over Bass, enough to where it's a viable play style which it isn't for Bass. I would say at best Mila matches Bass' damage, but doesn't come anywhere near beating him on damage at worst. So yeah, I can see this being close to a 5-5 match up but depending on how much emphasis or better her string and speed come into play is what determines if it makes it 6-4 in her favor, and I can only see that being done if she really outdoes Bass in terms of damage (which I don't see at this moment).

 

[Jefffcore]

The way I was looking at it, even if they did the same damage Mila can still keep Bass in a loop where Bass can't against Mila. Mila is also faster, and all her throws and holds put you in terrible situations, so I gave it to Mila.

I'd say her range and SS options are also better.

 

[DR2K]

Mila only has 2 high mids that I can think of, and I wouldn't use them outside critical

I can take 2/3rds of your health if i guess right from her psuedo

Helena can take 40% on a good guess and keep herself at advantage x forever.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Helena can take 40% on a good guess and keep herself at advantage x forever.

40% = 120 damage

"Good Guess" is on Counter Blow? Hi-counter Blow? Throw? Full stun extension and launch? Stun>Launch?

 

[Brute]

It's always about Helena these days...

As far as Mila v Bass goes, I'm not sure the speed advantage is even worth mentioning. Bass never has the speed advantage, so he operates on a game that assumes his jabs aren't going to beat out the opponents'. If anything, I'd argue slow characters benefit more from Bass' slowness than fast characters do. Since someone like Kasumi is used to having the frame advantage in most fights, there's not as much of a pull to change up your game against an opponent unless they can actually match your speed. In contrast, slower characters may feel a higher tendency to test out their slower/riskier options with the knowledge that Bass won't be as likely to beat them out, whereas normally they'd gravitate to faster techniques.

That's just my opinion, anyway.

 

[d3v]

Is brad wong low tier because he has so many moves and it's hard to utilize them all or is he just underplayed?

We won't know until we see how he does against the other characters.

 

[Jefffcore]

Helena can take 40% on a good guess and keep herself at advantage x forever.

Can't do much with that advantage against Mila though.

Mila gets from 130 up to like 170 or so after CB with guaranteed mounts at the end that leave her with advantage if you decide to break them. If she does her pseudo she can get even more damage with one more guess, though it comes easier on lights and Mids.

One tackle on CH does 70 damage with 2 hits and if you break the third I'm at advantage.

I don't see where Helena matches that.