Something Unique never said Ayane was bad, lol. You just misinterpreted what he was saying.
Which offline competitors?
The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
Which offline competitors?
Don't worry about it.
I have heard a lot of people saying Rig isn't good, though, which led me to form an opinion before going in the lab with him. An opinion that I changed as soon as I spent any time with him.
Honestly, I bet most opinions on most characters are given by people who don't play those characters.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
The only person I have ever heard say Rig was trash was Rabies. I don't think anyone has actually ever said Rig was trash just undiscovered.
Really though people do seem to jump to conclusions in this game. In vanilla everyone said Alpha was trash because she had no wake up kick. Alpha has always been silly in this game. Once I saw that I decided I would take everything I hear with a grain of salt until I see it confirmed and form my own opinions.
On topic though what is everybody's top 5 looking like? Mine is Gen Fu, Ayane, Christie, Helena and Alpha.
Really though people do seem to jump to conclusions in this game. In vanilla everyone said Alpha was trash because she had no wake up kick. Alpha has always been silly in this game. Once I saw that I decided I would take everything I hear with a grain of salt until I see it confirmed and form my own opinions.
On topic though what is everybody's top 5 looking like? Mine is Gen Fu, Ayane, Christie, Helena and Alpha.
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Well, I'm not saying this is final or anything becuase I'd still have LOTS of studying to do (as most everyone does), but from what I know and have observed, I'd wager: Gen Fu, Sarah, Pai, Helena and Alpha.
AkaShocka
Well-Known Member
My top 5 would be; Christie, Helena, Sarah, Gen Fu, and Ayane.
Christie: I put her in my top 5 because she can evade many things with her jakheiho. Kokoro and Eliot end any strings with low, mid, high strikes. The high kicks for both of these characters track. So a normal sidestep will get hit by these kicks. But Christie can jak and evade all of these combo enders. Also, (I don't know the inputs) Genfu's string that starts with the mid kick to the mid punch and high punch GB. The high GB tracks so sidestepping is risky. Yet again, since the jak puts her in crouching status she can evade it.
Also, the jak evades all of:
Kasumi's hoshninpo stance (even the throw)
Kokoro's Heichu stance (even the throw)
Lisa's carpoeria stance (even the throw)
Helena: I think Helena is very good just due the fact the bokuho and the bokuho duck can literally evade entire strings. Aside from that, she is very mix up heavy.
Ayane: Well I honestly think Ayane is in the top 3 or 5 characters in the game. She has many moves that can high crush and she is fantastic at spacing. She has good holds and throws also. Ayane has pretty much everything. She has great throws, holds, spacing, mind games, and mix ups. She is very unsafe but when used correctly she seems safe. Ayane is a very solid character.
Gen fu and Sarah: I am still figuring things out with these two. I'll try to explain this when I have everything down.
Christie: I put her in my top 5 because she can evade many things with her jakheiho. Kokoro and Eliot end any strings with low, mid, high strikes. The high kicks for both of these characters track. So a normal sidestep will get hit by these kicks. But Christie can jak and evade all of these combo enders. Also, (I don't know the inputs) Genfu's string that starts with the mid kick to the mid punch and high punch GB. The high GB tracks so sidestepping is risky. Yet again, since the jak puts her in crouching status she can evade it.
Also, the jak evades all of:
Kasumi's hoshninpo stance (even the throw)
Kokoro's Heichu stance (even the throw)
Lisa's carpoeria stance (even the throw)
Helena: I think Helena is very good just due the fact the bokuho and the bokuho duck can literally evade entire strings. Aside from that, she is very mix up heavy.
Ayane: Well I honestly think Ayane is in the top 3 or 5 characters in the game. She has many moves that can high crush and she is fantastic at spacing. She has good holds and throws also. Ayane has pretty much everything. She has great throws, holds, spacing, mind games, and mix ups. She is very unsafe but when used correctly she seems safe. Ayane is a very solid character.
Gen fu and Sarah: I am still figuring things out with these two. I'll try to explain this when I have everything down.
Well, some of you seem to be getting around an opinion on the matter regarding DoA5U.
Why not share some of that insight here: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-unofficial-tier-list-with-discussion-thread.3817/
alternatively here http://www.doaworld.com/forums/inde...tier-list-with-discussion-thread/#entry190949
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-unofficial-tier-list-with-discussion-thread.3817/
and maybe we'll be able to complete a full refreshed match-up table if everyone ships in.
(Most of it is outdated and old DoA5 data.)
Why not share some of that insight here: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-unofficial-tier-list-with-discussion-thread.3817/
alternatively here http://www.doaworld.com/forums/inde...tier-list-with-discussion-thread/#entry190949
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-unofficial-tier-list-with-discussion-thread.3817/
and maybe we'll be able to complete a full refreshed match-up table if everyone ships in.
(Most of it is outdated and old DoA5 data.)
Jaguar360
Well-Known Member
You're the first person I've seen say this. I was always shocked that everyone believed Alpha was crap in DOA5 1.00-1.02 and in DOAD when she had probably the best offensive tools in the game ever since she became playable (coming from someone who plays her and the other characters extensively in the DOAD). Ever since B.U.R.S.T. got buffed everyone started to realize every great thing about her that she had before patch 1.03 even when most of these other tools were nerfed in some way (and B.U.R.S.T. did more damage in Dimensions with the lower health bar anyway).
On topic, the Ryu matches that I had posted some months back probably didn't deserve to be in this thread since I probably have less experience than most of the people of this forum and definitely the least out of the Ryu players. I just wanted to start some discussion because no-one else was posting any Ryu matchups.
I still haven't gotten 5 Ultimate yet so I can't say anything regarding current matchups.
Ayane is great, Zack is great, Rig is ridiculous.
Rigdiculous
Black Dragon
Active Member
Well played, motherfucker. Well played.
I doubt most matchups will change that much.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
My Top 7 would be (in random order, I couldn't make it a top 5 lol):
Christie, Gen Fu, Alpha, Ayane, Helena, Pai and Sarah.
Christie's stance is very good, she has good lows that stun, stand-alone circular moves at all heights, speed...
Gen Fu, well, Parry + speed + major evasion + sitdown stuns + unholdable launcher = win
Alpha, fast long strings + godly grabs + OH + range + speed + parry = win
Ayane has the best spacing tools in the game, and she has the tools to deceive and frame trap better than a lot of other character. Is not easily sidestepped due to the huge list of circular moves.
Helena: bokuho + lots of mixups + pressure = win
Pai is really underestimated because almost no one uses her. But she has great sitdown stuns, lots of unholdable setups, godly grabs, good at all ranges, is super fast...
Sarah simply has so many options that she can overrun anyone. She's pretty much Helena on steroids, minus the bokuho.
Christie, Gen Fu, Alpha, Ayane, Helena, Pai and Sarah.
Christie's stance is very good, she has good lows that stun, stand-alone circular moves at all heights, speed...
Gen Fu, well, Parry + speed + major evasion + sitdown stuns + unholdable launcher = win
Alpha, fast long strings + godly grabs + OH + range + speed + parry = win
Ayane has the best spacing tools in the game, and she has the tools to deceive and frame trap better than a lot of other character. Is not easily sidestepped due to the huge list of circular moves.
Helena: bokuho + lots of mixups + pressure = win
Pai is really underestimated because almost no one uses her. But she has great sitdown stuns, lots of unholdable setups, godly grabs, good at all ranges, is super fast...
Sarah simply has so many options that she can overrun anyone. She's pretty much Helena on steroids, minus the bokuho.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
The problem is that this topic is bloated and no information is readily available. The list here is incomplete and in shambles. And even if new relevant info is added, what are we going to do, bullet point the pages with the useful info? "Ayane MU info on Page 96"
Yeah, no. Scrap the topic and make a new one. Everyone is starting fresh in LR, we should here too.
Ayane also has great unholdable set ups that go into frame traps or strong stun/oki set up on hit. I just haven't bothered listing them, lol.
More experience in the Nyotengu match up also told me the match up is pretty good for Ayane. Hardly anyone on the roster is able to take good advantage of Nyo's shorter hurtbox as she can. P > BT6K is an instant +1 on her, +2 more than often.
Regick
Member
One of Ayane's best moves you can use in unholdable setups is her 66KK4, but the second kick can still be holded. So, watch out.
I think I should share some unholdables I found with her sometimes. I found many, and I've seen most of them do work on LR too.
By the way that's true guys, Ayane is a solid character with very good tools, but there are many good characters is this game with good unholdables/setups/ground game/spacing tools too.
At close range: Ayane isn't the safest character and she is not the fastest too. Her pressure/mix-ups/throw game at close range isn't the best in the game too, even if it's still very solid (her oki game is damn good though). Now, considering that covering the distance in this game is not that hard (especially in some stages), you get that she is not uber tier like most of you maybe think.
I could have the best KBD in the world (I probably do, lol) and the best movement, but if you run at me you cover the distance. Now if your opponent has a very good movement/spacing and is good at reading and baiting, you will get that whiff punishing on reaction isn't always the easiest thing to do.
Here you get an idea of what I mean when I say "covering the distance":
Obviously Master knows how to "run at you" with gumption. But we are supposed to play good players, not bad players.
By reading all of these things though, you could assume that I have troubles whiff punishing and spacing out good players. Well... I don't, heh.
I think I should share some unholdables I found with her sometimes. I found many, and I've seen most of them do work on LR too.
By the way that's true guys, Ayane is a solid character with very good tools, but there are many good characters is this game with good unholdables/setups/ground game/spacing tools too.
At close range: Ayane isn't the safest character and she is not the fastest too. Her pressure/mix-ups/throw game at close range isn't the best in the game too, even if it's still very solid (her oki game is damn good though). Now, considering that covering the distance in this game is not that hard (especially in some stages), you get that she is not uber tier like most of you maybe think.
I could have the best KBD in the world (I probably do, lol) and the best movement, but if you run at me you cover the distance. Now if your opponent has a very good movement/spacing and is good at reading and baiting, you will get that whiff punishing on reaction isn't always the easiest thing to do.
Here you get an idea of what I mean when I say "covering the distance":
Obviously Master knows how to "run at you" with gumption. But we are supposed to play good players, not bad players.
By reading all of these things though, you could assume that I have troubles whiff punishing and spacing out good players. Well... I don't, heh.
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lol.
Running up to someone doesn't defeat the purpose of spacing, this is not what spacing and neutral control is about. Simply moving away isn't spacing. You just so happening to choose the worst tournament set of me does not prove a point, nor does it validate anything.
This is untrue, because you're not going to be finishing strings or even utilizing her strings so often during the neutral. You are playing her incorrectly if you do. Ayane's mix up influences stance transition, threshold frame trapping, 50/50 must-holds (and she has a lot of them) and utilizing 6K/6K2K (frustration tool), 66K string, 3H+K, PK/BT H+K, 6P3, P+KP/BTP+KP, BT3K, etc.
Her jab is -1 on block, and is an auto mix up by itself, on block. Jab is also +3 on a counter hit, and that immensely increases her options while in back turned stance.
Ayane's neutral strike speed is perfect "for her", considering her 6P alone is a high crush towards jabs. Jab and 2P cover the neutral against mid and low strike speed from the cast, as well as 5K doing the same thing against mid strike and differing tools from various characters (specific punch parries, sabakis, i12 mids). With so many high crushes she can utilize on read. Ayane also doesn't have any issues fighting faster strike speed, she does not have issues during the CQC (close quarters combat) neutral.
Every time I see someone trying to say this character is just average or whatever, it's the exact same thing. People basing things from their online play experience. And I end up having to repeat myself over and over again because no one really understands this character at all. There hasn't been a single Ayane player since Xdest and I that has any real understanding of this character's play design.
Kept in a quote;
My quote is barely scratching the surface of an introduction of what this character is.
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