DOA5LR Tips and strategies against all characters

[UncleKitchener]

For Leon:

If it doesn't guard break it is unsafe. He is also at huge disadvantages on all his Combo throw breaks. His Charge strikes all take over 40 frames to be advantage on Block and he can be thrown while charging.

Except for 6p+k, which is + frames by default.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Gen Fu has a fixed mid punch after his . Try to hold it on reaction before he gets access to his mix-ups.

Gen Fu's , and have to be punished with an i5 low throw on block.

Gen Fu's range isn't very good. He'll most likely approach with , so keep an eye on that.

Rachel has a fixed mid punch after her . Try to hold it on reaction before she gets access to her mix-ups.

Rachel's range isn't very good. Her best moves at range are and , so watch out for those.

Kasumi has a fixed high punch after her . Try to hold it on reaction.

Honoka has a fixed mid punch after her . Try to hold it on reaction.

Jacky has a fixed high punch after his . Try to hold it on reaction before he gets access to his mix-ups.

Momiji has a fixed mid punch after her . Try to hold it on reaction before she gets access to her mix-ups.

After blocking Hayabusa's WR , you can shut down both the punch follow-up and the kick follow-up by sidestepping.

Hitomi will often try to trip you up with her low sweeps. Predict those lows and either hold them or block and punish them.

 

[KasumiLover]

By fixed, do you mean that the follow up is their only option to finish the string?

 

[KING JAIMY]

By fixed, do you mean that the follow up is their only option to finish the string?

Yes, it implies that part of the string or the whole string has no mix-ups aside from free cancelling (i.e. a static string).

For example, Rachel's 3PPP is a fully static string since all of them are mid punches and she has no strike mix-ups. Rachel 4PP is static because the second one is always a mid punch, but after that the string becomes dynamic because she has two different mix-ups: 4PPP and 4PP2P. So Rachel's 4P string is partially static (and partially dynamic).

As another example, Kasumi's 1PP is fully static because she has fixed strikes and can't mix up with anything. It's always a low to high, no matter what. But Kasumi's 6P is very dynamic since she has many different follow-up on different hit levels: 6PP (mid punch - high punch), 6PK (mid punch - mid kick), 6P6K (mid punch - mid kick) and 6P2K (mid punch - low kick). Even 6PK is dynamic, because she has 6PKK (mid punch - mid kick - mid kick) and 6PK2K (mid punch - mid kick - low kick).

Momiji's 3K string is another example of a partially static string. After 3K, there is always a mid punch if the Momiji player decides to continue the string so the opponent can anticipate the mid punch and hold it. But if they don't hold that punch, she has access to different mixups from her Uzukaze stance and the string becomes dynamic. So 3KP is static, but after that the string becomes dynamic because then the mix-ups come into play.

We as players search for static strings so we can safely say what follow-up a certain strings leads to. The defending player only has to worry about a free cancel when it comes to a static string, which can be reacted to with a punish or counter hit, depending on the situation. If the offending player decides to continue the static string, the defending can be 100% sure of the hit level of the strike and hold it. It's a good way to exploit character weaknesses.

TL;DR
Fully static string = The whole string is composed of fixed strikes. There is no room for mix-ups except for free cancelling the string. (e.g. Rachel's 3PPP, Kasumi's 1PP)
Partially static string = A part of the string is static (i.e. no mix-up potential in terms of strikes) but another part - usually the later part of the string - is dynamic (i.e. there is room for mix-ups) (e.g. Rachel's 4P string, Momiji's 3K string)
Dynamic string = The whole string has mix-up potential (e.g. Kasumi's 6P string).

I hope this clears up what I said before.

 

[KasumiLover]

Yes, it implies that part of the string or the whole string has no mix-ups aside from free cancelling (i.e. a static string).

For example, Rachel's 3PPP is a fully static string since all of them are mid punches and she has no strike mix-ups. Rachel 4PP is static because the second one is always a mid punch, but after that the string becomes dynamic because she has two different mix-ups: 4PPP and 4PP2P. So Rachel's 4P string is partially static (and partially dynamic).

As another example, Kasumi's 1PP is fully static because she has fixed strikes and can't mix up with anything. It's always a low to high, no matter what. But Kasumi's 6P is very dynamic since she has many different follow-up on different hit levels: 6PP (mid punch - high punch), 6PK (mid punch - mid kick), 6P6K (mid punch - mid kick) and 6P2K (mid punch - low kick). Even 6PK is dynamic, because she has 6PKK (mid punch - mid kick - mid kick) and 6PK2K (mid punch - mid kick - low kick).

Momiji's 3K string is another example of a partially static string. After 3K, there is always a mid punch if the Momiji player decides to continue the string so the opponent can anticipate the mid punch and hold it. But if they don't hold that punch, she has access to different mixups from her Uzukaze stance and the string becomes dynamic. So 3KP is static, but after that the string becomes dynamic because then the mix-ups come into play.

We as players search for static strings so we can safely say what follow-up a certain strings leads to. The defending player only has to worry about a free cancel when it comes to a static string, which can be reacted to with a punish or counter hit, depending on the situation. If the offending player decides to continue the static string, the defending can be 100% sure of the hit level of the strike and hold it. It's a good way to exploit character weaknesses.

TL;DR
Fully static string = The whole string is composed of fixed strikes. There is no room for mix-ups except for free cancelling the string. (e.g. Rachel's 3PPP, Kasumi's 1PP)
Partially static string = A part of the string is static (i.e. no mix-up potential in terms of strikes) but another part - usually the later part of the string - is dynamic (i.e. there is room for mix-ups) (e.g. Rachel's 4P string, Momiji's 3K string)
Dynamic string = The whole string has mix-up potential (e.g. Kasumi's 6P string).

I hope this clears up what I said before.

Thank you! I really appreciate the response.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Regarding the thread, we are still missing tips against the following characters:



Anybody got some ideas how to deal with one or more of these characters?

Thank you! I really appreciate the response.

You're welcome I'm glad it helped you out!

 

[KasumiLover]

and are all full mid hit strings, so these can be held on reaction if the opponent does not delay or stop mid-string. The same can be said about , which is a full low hit string.

Using what @KING JAIMY taught me, the strings above are partially static strings; after the fourth hit on the strings, the string is no longer static, and the mid hit strings can transition to , while the low hit string can transition to . Watch out and don't let these throw you off.(I had to learn this from my sister who uses Zack.)

 

[Deth Cody]

i think its hilarious that theres even an ein and nyotengu section, probably the 2 characters with the least amount of tools

but to contribute instead of just criticizing,
if you stagger escape, none of nyos sitdown stuns have guaranteed follow ups except her BT4K

 

[DontForkWitMe]

I guess i can add some Bayman tips

-unlike every other character with chain throws he is left at advantage(+3) whenever you break his so don't press buttons and stay on defense/space out when breaking out of any of his chain grabs.

-Utilize your mid/low tracking moves and low throws against him since most Bayman players love tank rolling while at disadvantage which avoids all highs,non tracking mid/low moves and standing grabs.

-Bayman's grabs mostly consist of OHs and his are slower and easier react to than most characters so be ready to punish those with a hi counter throw.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

i think its hilarious that theres even an ein and nyotengu section, probably the 2 characters with the least amount of tools

Ein is pretty straightforward, but NyoTengu can DEFINITELY fuck you up if you don't know how to combat her.



- KKK/KKKK & 6PPP are very seeable and holdable on reaction
- Lisa relies a lot on offensive holds (catch throws) to get additional damage, watch out for them with a crouch then throw. Jumping OH's require a low throw to punish
- Lisa struggles a lot in close range, especially if your character possesses an i11 mid
- Don't let her get too much space
- Lisa has an i4 neutral throw and an i6 punish throw, so be careful with strings between i5 - i7 on block since they become punishable in this MU
- If you block 1P (a good hi-crush Mid P) continuing blocking and punish 1PP, or try to hold 1PKK on reaction. 1PKK is Mid P-High K-Mid K.
- Lisa's lows are quite slow so feel free to shake her up with 2P's or other fast lows in close.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Thread updated. The only character that dodged the bullet so far is Pai.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Thread updated. The only character that dodged the bullet so far is Pai.

We'll see about that.



- Pai relies quite a bit on close range mix-ups, try to space her out as much as you can
- At range watch out for her Running K, which is an unblockable high kick
- Take heed of Pai's lows such as 66P+K with regards to starting her offense or during her stun mix-ups
- Pai's holds and throws deal subpar damage
- 3KPP is linear and fairly easy to hold
- 2KK is Low-High, with the second kick being holdable even if the first attack connects

 

[KING JAIMY]

Thread updated. There is now at least one counter-strategy against each character.

I’ve done a quick analysis of the size of this thread; it currently consists of 134 tips in total, which averages to roughly 4 tips for each character. That is awesome!

Here is the count for each individual character:

Spoiler

13x Christie

12x Ayane

10x Momiji

9x Kasumi

8x Honoka

7x Lisa

6x Pai
6x Ryu Hayabusa

4x Phase 4
4x Kokoro
4x Jann Lee
4x Leon
4x Mila

3x Bayman
3x Alpha
3x Ein
3x Gen Fu
3x Helena
3x Marie Rose
3x Jacky
3x Rig

2x Hayate
2x Akira
2x Leifang
2x Raidou
2x Nyotengu
2x Rachel

1x Bass
1x Brad Wong
1x Eliot
1x Hitomi
1x Sarah
1x Tina
1x Zack

As we can see, there are a lot of strategies against Christie, Ayane and Momiji. However, Bass, Brad Wong, Eliot, Hitomi, Sarah, Tina, Zack, Hayate, Akira, Leifang, Raidou, Nyotengu and Rachel remain relatively unexplored. Perhaps we can make it a future goal to provide more anti-strategies against these characters.

Anyway, I’m pretty happy with what we have so far and I’m glad this thread proves useful.

EDIT: I edited the thread title from 'General tips against all characters' to 'Tips and strategies against all characters' to fit both general and specific weaknesses of characters as some tips listed are specific (e.g. only about one specific move(string)). Also, some things listed are strategies rather than tips, so that is part of the new thread title as well.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Zacks P+K is a very telegraphed move that can be held both mid punch and mid kick and is very safe on block for him (-1).


At neutral close range, all of Hayabusas options from his Ongyoin stance can be anticipated with a low attack faster than 15 frames (e.g. a 2P).
(I have to say I'm not 100% sure if I checked all options correctly, maybe someone can confirm this)


The majority of his strings switches between high and mid punches and none of his low enders will cause a stun on normal hit.
(Got that one from the TFC stream )


Is not even in the game so you don't have to be afraid of him.

 

[KasumiLover]

Zacks P+K is a very telegraphed move that can be held both mid punch and mid kick and is very safe on block for him (-1).


At neutral close range, all of Hayabusas options from his Ongyoin stance can be anticipated with a low attack faster than 15 frames (e.g. a 2P).
(I have to say I'm not 100% sure if I checked all options correctly, maybe someone can confirm this)


The majority of his strings switches between high and mid punches and none of his low enders will cause a stun on normal hit.
(Got that one from the TFC stream )


Is not even in the game so you don't have to be afraid of him.

Thank you! Genra's been giving me a hard time lately. XD

 

[JusTheBest29]

-Many of his strings are linear.
- Guaranteed strikes from his parries but the followups can be held.
-Each punch string ender followup(for example 6PPK) is unsafe except for 46P which is -3


-His teleport 8P and 8T and can be hit out of to get a free juggle if read and timed correctly.


-None of her feint/tackle cancels are plus on block, so each transition can either be 2Ted as already mentioned or can be hit out of with a mid.
-Best ranged pokes are mid kicks like 4K and 4H+K


- Every guardbreak she has is negative on block except 66K which is +1

 

[Argentus]

The loss of reach/range is why I didn't like the conversion of the move set from Nicole to Rachel. Nicole had insane range but they took away most of the "straight" attack string finishers so Rachel's attacks are all like

Compared to Nicole's

Even with the same string.

 

[BLKthunda1220]

Ein is pretty straightforward, but NyoTengu can DEFINITELY fuck you up if you don't know how to combat her.



- KKK/KKKK & 6PPP are very seeable and holdable on reaction
- Lisa relies a lot on offensive holds (catch throws) to get additional damage, watch out for them with a crouch then throw. Jumping OH's require a low throw to punish
- Lisa struggles a lot in close range, especially if your character possesses an i11 mid
- Don't let her get too much space
- Lisa has an i4 neutral throw and an i6 punish throw, so be careful with strings between i5 - i7 on block since they become punishable in this MU
- If you block 1P (a good hi-crush Mid P) continuing blocking and punish 1PP, or try to hold 1PKK on reaction. 1PKK is Mid P-High K-Mid K.
- Lisa's lows are quite slow so feel free to shake her up with 2P's or other fast lows in close.

this is so funny and true. when i fight a Kasumi Hitomi or Phase 4 and they're backing away after Deja Vu Or Monkey Flip Damage I'm just like "really? time for the mind games."

 

[Soaring Zero]

This thread is immensely useful especially for me since I feel that machup knowledge is one of my weaker points. I'll gladly contribute more as I learn more myself.

 

[jjinkou2]

Breaking Hayabusa's Ninpo Teleport options from his Ongyoin stance:

1) Just listen to Hayabusa. If he says "N'TUA" he's going to throw you, so just crouch and throw punish. Otherwise just block every other options.

2) You can sidestep all.

3) You can Free Step Dodge.

4) You can step backward just a little step. he's ready to eat a mid punch.

5) You can use a a special move that step backward (like 1P+K for leifang, kokoro, 1H+K for Mila ...)