Triangle System

Perfect Legend

Active Member
Understanding the Triangle system is a core aspect of any DOA players game.

Strikes > Throws
Throws > Holds
Holds > Strikes

Strikes are your basic High/Mid/Low attacks
Throws are either Standing or Crouching throws.
Holds are either High, Middle Punch, Middle Kick or Low. Punches and Kicks are divided into two different hit levels to provide more mind games when an opponent is in critical status to make it more difficult for the one on the defensive end of the critical state to escape.

When certain part of the triangle system beats their opposing part of the triangle the game rewards the character with a "Hi Counter" status which maximizes the damage and will amplify the properties of the Strike/Hold/Throw that was performed.

Then there are Throws with Hold properties which are called Offensive Holds or known by a lot as Catch Throws because they "catch" the attack.

Offense Holds act just like Throws as well as a hold, however you can beat a Offensive Hold with a Throw to get a Hi Counter Throw. And you can also hit someone out of a Offensive Hold if your strike is performed first.

Defensive Holds are the basic holds which are used to catch specific hit levels of attacks and the damage is amplified only when the hold is performed at the last possible frame of an attack.
 

Matt Ponton

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Nice stuff! I would like to comment on the following:

Then there are Throws with Hold properties which are called Offensive Holds or known by a lot as Catch Throws because they "catch" the attack.

An Offensive Hold is not a Catch Throw. The two are technically different where an OH leans towards the properties of a Hold, and a CT leans towards the properties of a Throw.

Offensive Hold vs:
Attack: +150% revision (Hi-counter Hold)
Throw: -150% revision (Hi-counter Throw)
Hold: +125% revision (Counter Hold)

Catch Throw vs:
Attack: +100% revision (Normal Throw)
Throw: -125% revision (Counter Throw)
Hold: +150% revision (Hi-Counter Throw)

As you can see, the OH follows the properties of the Hold (Losing to Hi-counter Throw and giving Hi-counter Hold on attack) and CT follows the properties of the Throw (Losing to Counter Throw and giving Hi-counter Throw on Hold).

In DOA1, if two Offensive Holds clashed, you would have a throw break animation (like VF5). I forget what happens in DOA4 if two offensive holds clashed.
 

Perfect Legend

Active Member
Nice stuff! I would like to comment on the following:



An Offensive Hold is not a Catch Throw. The two are technically different where an OH leans towards the properties of a Hold, and a CT leans towards the properties of a Throw.

Offensive Hold vs:
Attack: +150% revision (Hi-counter Hold)
Throw: -150% revision (Hi-counter Throw)
Hold: +125% revision (Counter Hold)

Catch Throw vs:
Attack: +100% revision (Normal Throw)
Throw: -125% revision (Counter Throw)
Hold: +150% revision (Hi-Counter Throw)

As you can see, the OH follows the properties of the Hold (Losing to Hi-counter Throw and giving Hi-counter Hold on attack) and CT follows the properties of the Throw (Losing to Counter Throw and giving Hi-counter Throw on Hold).

In DOA1, if two Offensive Holds clashed, you would have a throw break animation (like VF5). I forget what happens in DOA4 if two offensive holds clashed.

Catch Throw is the OH's street name in the community thats why I spoke on it. Also OH vs OH the one that came out first wins in DOA4.

Also the only way regular throws beat attacks in DOA is during the frames of the opponent when they are charging a charge attack and iirc that also gives Counter Throw status as well.
 

Matt Ponton

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Good to know. But to stop the confusion, in DOA3 and DOA2 the Catch Throws weren't called "Offensive Holds". That term was brought back in when DOA4 came out. It is for that reason that "Catch Throws" is the term I have been using when referencing the properties of DOA3 and DOA2, where "Offensive Hold" is reserved for the two games that used those: DOA4 and DOA1.

Since they perform different properties depending on which pair of games you are referring to, it's best to keep the confusion down to a minimum. After all, Offensive Holds have the property of a Hold, but Catch Throws have the property of a Throw. It's just a minor terminology difference that needs to be ironed out.
 

Perfect Legend

Active Member
Good to know. But to stop the confusion, in DOA3 and DOA2 the Catch Throws weren't called "Offensive Holds". That term was brought back in when DOA4 came out. It is for that reason that "Catch Throws" is the term I have been using when referencing the properties of DOA3 and DOA2, where "Offensive Hold" is reserved for the two games that used those: DOA4 and DOA1.

Since they perform different properties depending on which pair of games you are referring to, it's best to keep the confusion down to a minimum. After all, Offensive Holds have the property of a Hold, but Catch Throws have the property of a Throw. It's just a minor terminology difference that needs to be ironed out.

I should've posted in the DOA4 section because I wasn't referring to DOA1, 2 or 3.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
I must stress that this is part of the fundamentals of doa4, and is very important. Like Perfect legend has stated, the Game rewards you more for following the triangle system than anything else. Do not be mistaken, the sub systems of doa4 is very important as well, and you are rewarded well for doing so. However, the game favors the triangle system.
 

sick45hitcombo

New Member
I’m playing DoA4 on Series S now and while I appreciate the explanation of “Hi Counter”, it seems inconsistent? I’ll do attacks or wake up kicks and when they get Held, it only says “Counter Hold”. Shouldn’t it be “Hi Counter Hold” since it’s following the Triangle System?

Also is there a list with explanations for all the sidebar terms that’ll pop up in a game?
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
I’m playing DoA4 on Series S now and while I appreciate the explanation of “Hi Counter”, it seems inconsistent? I’ll do attacks or wake up kicks and when they get Held, it only says “Counter Hold”. Shouldn’t it be “Hi Counter Hold” since it’s following the Triangle System?

Also is there a list with explanations for all the sidebar terms that’ll pop up in a game?
Holds are different since in order for holds to get counter hold, they have to be timed better.

If you do a hold with normal timing, it'll be a normal one, while if you time an attack somewhat more carefully, it'll be a counter hold. If you do a hold JUST before the attack hits you, like just as the attack connects, it'll cause a hi counter hold.

The sidebar terms themselves are self explanatory, like if you see critical stun it means that the attack caused a stun although whether it can be used for a combo stun set up depends on the stun advantage length. And if you see Combo throw, that's the prompt that'll let you know to do the next input for the combo throw to continue
 

sick45hitcombo

New Member
Holds are different since in order for holds to get counter hold, they have to be timed better.

If you do a hold with normal timing, it'll be a normal one, while if you time an attack somewhat more carefully, it'll be a counter hold. If you do a hold JUST before the attack hits you, like just as the attack connects, it'll cause a hi counter hold.

The sidebar terms themselves are self explanatory, like if you see critical stun it means that the attack caused a stun although whether it can be used for a combo stun set up depends on the stun advantage length. And if you see Combo throw, that's the prompt that'll let you know to do the next input for the combo throw to continue

Thank you for explaining this! I think I got the rest down now, Holds are just different in this regard.
 

sick45hitcombo

New Member
Also is there a list with explanations for all the sidebar terms that’ll pop up in a game?
Holds are different since in order for holds to get counter hold, they have to be timed better.

If you do a hold with normal timing, it'll be a normal one, while if you time an attack somewhat more carefully, it'll be a counter hold. If you do a hold JUST before the attack hits you, like just as the attack connects, it'll cause a hi counter hold.

The sidebar terms themselves are self explanatory, like if you see critical stun it means that the attack caused a stun although whether it can be used for a combo stun set up depends on the stun advantage length. And if you see Combo throw, that's the prompt that'll let you know to do the next input for the combo throw to continue

I think I have a full list for all the terms and their conditions:


Critical Hit = Strike putting opponent into Stun

Counter Blow = Strike beating another Strike/Offensive Hold first

Hi Counter Blow = Strike beating Throw

Counter Throw = Throw beating another Throw first

Hi Counter Throw = Throw beating Defensive Hold/Offensive Hold

Counter Hold = Defensive Hold beating Strike with close timing OR Offensive Hold beating Defensive Hold

Hi Counter Hold = Defensive Hold beating Strike with near frame-perfect timing OR Offensive Hold beating Strike

Combo Hold & Combo Throw let you know that you can keep going with your Hold/Throw with another input

I have asterisks next to Counter Hold because I want to make sure you didn’t mean Defensive Hold when you said attack (Strike):

while if you time an attack somewhat more carefully, it'll be a counter hold

If you did mean Strike beating a whiffed Hold then I’ll change it.
 
Last edited:

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I think I have close to a full list for all the terms and their conditions:


Critical Stun = Strike putting opponent into Stun

Counter Blow = Strike beating another Strike/Offensive Hold first

Hi Counter Blow = Strike beating Throw

Hi Counter Throw = Throw beating Defensive Hold/Offensive Hold

***Counter Hold = Defensive Hold beating Strike with close timing OR Offensive Hold beating Defensive Hold

Hi Counter Hold = Defensive Hold with near frame-perfect timing beating Strike OR Offensive Hold beating Strike


I have asterisks next to Counter Hold because I want to make sure you didn’t mean Defensive Hold when you said attack (Strike):



If you did mean Strike beating a whiffed Hold then I’ll change it.
You pretty nailed it! But that last part I didn't mean, a strike beating doesn't really cause a counter or anything since in stun if you whiff a hold or guess wrong and the foe hits you it'll continue and if you whiff a hold you're vulnerable due to the recovery like if you whiff an attack or have an unsafe attack guarded against
 

sick45hitcombo

New Member
You pretty nailed it! But that last part I didn't mean, a strike beating doesn't really cause a counter or anything since in stun if you whiff a hold or guess wrong and the foe hits you it'll continue and if you whiff a hold you're vulnerable due to the recovery like if you whiff an attack or have an unsafe attack guarded against

Awesome, edited the list then!
 
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