Tutorial: Exploring Frame Data

It's no secret that the Dead or Alive 5 frame data display is inaccurate to actually comprehending the disadvantage of an attack and what attacks exactly can punish an attack.

Forwardownforward has put up a video tutorial showing many of the inaccuracies with the frame counter. The tutorial says an easy way to calculate this is to add 2 frames to the start up counter in the Move Details window. For example, in order to punish a -11 attack, you would need to do an attack that is no slower than 9 frames according to the Move Details display. That means that only Kasumi, Christie, and Eliot can punish a -11 attack with a guaranteed attack.

The video does not go over throw punishment, which differs in that you have to add 1 frame to the throw startup: A 4 frame throw actually will punish anything -5 frames or more.

Forwardownforward does not go into why these two frames are necessary, and I can understand that but here's the reason: (1) The game delays any string starting attack by 1 frame after it registers your input to verify and calculate what string you want to perform, and (2) The frame counter on the Move Details window does not count the first hit frame in its count, only the last startup frame. Adding the +2 to every move's startup just makes it simpler to calculate if an attack is punishable.


He also goes into detail about crouch blocking, that in order to go from Standing to Guard Crouching after having an attack blocked, you need to add one additional frame to the disadvantage. This does not need to be added when going from Crouching to Guard Standing. Lastly, he goes over turning around forwards from back stance being 5 frames using Ayane's 6P as an example.
 
I dunno what all these numbers mean, but I do know I can get a guaranteed 6p from 214p on hit. Guess I'll work from there... if I can ever translate this frame data thingy as well as the video guy did.

Man, my head hurts just thinking about it. >.<
 
The same applies to throws as well, that is a 4 frame throw actually will punish anything -6 frames or more.

Not exactly. For throws 1 frame should be added, not 2. So a 4-frame throw is an i5 throw.

Some moves have variable frame data that depends on if hit is deep or not. On tip hit usually 1 additional frame should be added (maybe more).

That means that only Kasumi, Christie, and Eliot can punish a -11 attack with a guaranteed attack.

Sarah too has a 9-frame (i11) move.
 
+1 frame for throws, and +2 for strikes. That makes everything I found make sense. Ayane gets 6-frame thrown after a blocked :6::P::K: (-7 for Ayane), and Kokoro gets a free :7::K: or :214::P: (18 frames each) after her :1::F+P: low throw (+20 for Kokoro), but :2::P+K:, :4::P+K:, and :9::K: can all be blocked (those three are 19 frame moves, and all able to reach on the first active frame after the throw).
 
Not exactly. For throws 1 frame should be added, not 2. So a 4-frame throw is an i5 throw.
I wonder how this applies to Hitomi's 236K. It's -1, and if you try to crouch guard against Tina's Neutral throw, you will be caught. Is that correct, or is the frame data just completely incorrect? Like go try it and you'll see it's legit.
 
I wonder how this applies to Hitomi's 236K. It's -1, and if you try to crouch guard against Tina's Neutral throw, you will be caught. Is that correct, or is the frame data just completely incorrect? Like go try it and you'll see it's legit.

Try counter hitting her instead of crouching and you will see that throw attempt is not guaranteed. A character is in throwable state for some time during normal crouch animation (for about 3-5 frames). If you do crouch dash (33) or low hold Tina won't be able to throw you, since you transition to crouching almost immediately.

I.e. frame data is correct in that regard, I guess (haven't checked your 236K though).
 
Try counter hitting her instead of crouching and you will see that throw attempt is not guaranteed. A character is in throwable state for some time during normal crouch animation (for about 3-5 frames). If you do crouch dash (33) or low hold Tina won't be able to throw you, since you transition to crouching almost immediately.

I.e. frame data is correct in that regard, I guess (haven't checked your 236K though).
I know you can counter hit her out of the grab, That's strange though, 3-5 to not get thrown, but only 1 to block something... how misleading.
 
I've always figured the frame data was off considering Hitomi's sit down stun I can get a guaranteed 6p but 6k you can block even though it says they are both 13 frames.
 
We know everything needs a +1 frame for the first active frame. Now we know that attacks need another +1 to make it +2.
 
I know you can counter hit her out of the grab, That's strange though, 3-5 to not get thrown, but only 1 to block something... how misleading.

To make things even more confusing, while back-turned, you can crouch in 1 frame.

I've always figured the frame data was off considering Hitomi's sit down stun I can get a guaranteed 6p but 6k you can block even though it says they are both 13 frames.

The knee hits on the second active frame sadly.
 
I've always figured the frame data was off considering Hitomi's sit down stun I can get a guaranteed 6p but 6k you can block even though it says they are both 13 frames.
That is interesting to know, I'll remember that.

So I wonder what happens here, will the counter be reassessed to give the right numbers? Or will the start up frames be dumped... rhetorical questions that I can't wait to see answered.
 
Does the delay also include start up of throws? Example 6H+P is generally 7i, but with this theory it would be 9i.
 
I believe Dr. Dogg mentioned this in the strategy guide, but it's about time someone demonstrated it frame by frame.
 
I believe Dr. Dogg mentioned this in the strategy guide, but it's about time someone demonstrated it frame by frame.

Do you know the exact explanation? The most confusing part for me is the first additional frame for strikes, and why it is for strikes only. The second frame (which is the first active frame) is clear.
 
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
Top