ways to improve Honoka and stay in flavor of the character

I wanted to be more involved in the FSD community, so I wanted to talk about something I have familiarity with Honoka. Overall her character is average, with strong tools that are limited to her physical stature causing to be weaker in range and or damage. On top that if you pay attention to her moves especially her throws and counter they are also limited to this fact. They are limited due to the fact they most involve using her weight against her opponent. Her mid kick, both highs and her low kick counter involved her using her weight against the opposition. Which makes since for the character because she in not highly trained and she is short, but due to this her counter are weaker in damage and or advantage which does not help her out. So why not give her unique counters or take other moves or counters to replace the more lack luster ones. Like for her high kick counter why not give her Jan Lee's dragon gunner. She copies a lot of his moves and the moves it self does not seem out her capability to do so. They could lower the advantage frames, the damage, or both, but having that tool would increase her game quite a bit in my opinion. You could give her a lot of better options just by giving her better base counters and still keep to her actual capabilities. This has gone on for quite some time so I would to like focus for now on just on her counters then move to other parts of her kit. I hope this will be a fruitful discussion.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
I doubt TN will ever change her holds, and she will most likely not receive Jann Lee's Trace Gunner from a high kick hold. Her holds are fine, in my opinion and seem pretty fair considering she is not as geared towards defense compared to, let's say, Marie Rose, Bayman or Leifang. Also, one question, what do you mean by:

Her mid kick, both highs and her low kick counter involved her using her weight against the opposition.
 
In those animations she pretty much falls on her opponent. I can agree that yes she is not a defensive character so having strong counters should not be her forte, but there are examples Jan Lee again who is not defensive, but has strong counters. I've been comparing her counters the their owner's and they main flaw i see the fact they do considerably less damage in comparison. So to make her stand out why not give average overall effective instead of pale comparisons.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I don't know what you mean by ''overall effective instead of pale comparisons''. Do you have any other suggestions for her holds, besides Jann Lee's Trace Gunner?
 
To add clarity for my statement, I just compared Honoka's low kick counter to Tina's low kick since they are the same. The difference was the damage. On raw standard counter Tina's does 60 while Honoka's does 52. Besides changing your position on the field it has no other benefits. So why not switch out this counter for something comparable like Zack's low counter kick. Its advantages are similar that it does damage and changes your position on the field, but unlike Tina's it can cause reaction with floor based danger zone. It also allows Honoka to use her weight and show off her feats of strength at the same time. Also referring to the weight statement she pretty much falls on her opponent to bring them down.
 
I think she would benefit a lot from better range on her 3k into stance for the stun game. It really opens a lot of possibilities but it whiffs a lot due to short range, making you completely open for big punish.

Also 1p or 6p2k should be able to stun non counter, and she needs a gtfo move since she can be pressured so easily due to her short limbs.
 
That would be nice but they couldn't increase it too far due to her size. I would like that they gave more options in the drunken crane stance. Like a low or a grab.
 
Going over some other moves with Honoka. She could use better high to low chains. Like they could have gave the option to do Rachel's 2H+K at pp2k or 5ppp.
 
Going over her move list again, why does she has Bass's buffalo train stance? Not even Bass players use that move and the option they gave her two of them are technically taunt. Why not give a straight command to go into her unique then give it more options?
 

Nikotsumi

Well-Known Member
I think her move list doesn't need changes at all. The only thing i would like Honoka to have is a mid kick or a low during Bokuho stance, since she has only 2 options from it (mid punches and an high). Oh and more/better lows, i really hate how useless is her current 2H+K, i would like it to be replaced with... i don't know... maybe Helena's.
 
Though I do agree she needs more options from bokuho. Why do you think her move list is ok? I feel she has not lack luster but some outright useless moves in her kit.
 
You know what is weird for being such a fan of bass why does she have some of his better moves or at least throws? Like his ground grab or his 4ppp chain? There is also his P+K and the give her the option to do his 3K into k and into P. They could still have brad command just like normal then if want to the bass punch just press 6P, then obviously for the kick variant you just press kick again.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Honoka's Bass moves are fine, in my opinion. PK is a really good tool for keepout and is a quick wall splat. Her Bass throws and holds are okay too with 6T being exceptionally good. I admit that her 63214P+K moves are pretty useless though. Perhaps they can replace them with something else.
 
Here is a question have to ask since you kingjaimy and nikotsumi both stated that overall her kit is already fine, why so? To me her kit has obvious lacks and repetitive moves that hold back the character. Not only she has no real strong identity in playstyle in comparison to the rest of the cast. Christie is fast and evasive. Ryu has versatility and strength. Tina has powerful grabs and speed. What does Honoka have? I know she copies the cast but they could have done more to maker her stand out besides the only really thing in my eyes is her height and body type compared to the rest of females in the cast.
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Tina has speed.
This is not true if you're talking about strike speed.
What does Honoka have?
Very fast neutral strike speed.
Tons of mixups in stun.
Powerful Hissatsu stance. All options are very dangerous.
Frame traps.
Pretty decent back-turned game.
Excellent wall pressure and very good wall game in general.
6T reset throw and threatening wall version of 6T.
A few safe spacing options (4K, H+K, 3H+K, 46P).
Many different launchers on different hit levels.
Crushes (3PPP, 214P+K, 1P, 2P, 1K, DHO K, 46P and probably a few more).
Both CB's are (semi-)safe.
Lots of knockback on some juggle enders (P+KPP, 2P+K46P, BT P+K, 66P+K Heichu P+K).
 
I cant really agree with the hissatsu stance due to the fact until the patch she had only one real option of the opponent is stand blocker her which was throw. Her other options were unsafe till now and I still think they could do better. Like a low from the stance. With the stun from mix up to me from only certain options is it that strong. Like we talked about earlier the drunken crane stance is missing a few things if you stun in that. I do agree her wall game and 6T can be absolutely deadly. Though in comparison to others with similar abilities let us say Hitomi, who would you be more afraid of Honoka or Hitomi.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
All she really needs is a better neutral game. Her stun game is pretty terrifying and her damage is good but she lacks any threat in neutral. I also don't like that she cant transition her stances on block.
 
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