What would you like to see in DOA6?

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
...
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...Is "go indian" another way of saying "going commando"?
Also this has totally gone off topic so maybe It's best to just bring it back around now? :p
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
That would be cool to see, besides just loving rain and thunderstorms and especially during this Summer wanting it to be colder it would also be cool in terms of affects since the characters would be soaked and everything.
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
That would be cool to see, besides just loving rain and thunderstorms and especially during this Summer wanting it to be colder it would also be cool in terms of affects since the characters would be soaked and everything.

Yeah, and the ground would be wet too with cool reflections. They need to bring all those back, seriously.

A stage where the characters get completely drenched by rain was such an oversight in DOA5, lol. Imagine the girls in bikinis and completely wet. Or let's better not. We don't want to give Twitter any more ideas.
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
Lol I actually thought that would have been a great thing for doa5 because of the wetness affects, It could have either started at 100% or gradually went up as it went on. Wetness affects are back in doa6 right? I don't know If they've been shown off much yet? Obviously sweat has been shown so I guess it must be back but I mean like clothes changing etc after getting soaked like Hitomis tank top going see through? I think with that we'll need to see more outfits to see more affects of that.
 

Tyaren

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Standard Donor
Lol I actually thought that would have been a great thing for doa5 because of the wetness affects, It could have either started at 100% or gradually went up as it went on. Wetness affects are back in doa6 right? I don't know If they've been shown off much yet? Obviously sweat has been shown so I guess it must be back but I mean like clothes changing etc after getting soaked like Hitomis tank top going see through? I think with that we'll need to see more outfits to see more affects of that.

I assume the wetness effects will be back. I by the way think the sweat effects in DOA6 are inferior to the sweat effects the characters had in their DOA5 vanilla costumes (later in Ultimate and Last Round the effects got much less detailed), they had these really realistic looking small droplets all over the skin. In DOA6 it's just thick, undetailed, wet streaks:
(zoom in on Diego's chest or arm))
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That all reminds me that we also need a new aquarium stage. I also loved these in DOA5 and 2Ultimate! So pretty. This time they could start cracking during the fight, then leaking with puddles forming on the floor.
 

Ninoasker

Well-Known Member
I assume the wetness effects will be back. I by the way think the sweat effects in DOA6 are inferior to the sweat effects the characters had in their DOA5 vanilla costumes (later in Ultimate and Last Round the effects got much less detailed), they had these really realistic looking small droplets all over the skin. In DOA6 it's just thick, undetailed, wet streaks:
(zoom in on Diego's chest or arm))
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That all reminds me that we also need a new aquarium stage. I also loved these in DOA5 and 2Ultimate! So pretty. This time they could start cracking during the fight, then leaking with puddles forming on the floor.
YIKES. I love my wetness & dirt effects, but damn, that looks so weird and overdone ugh...
 

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
For the sweat affects I like them but It is still early days so I guess we'll have to see how they change up till launch If they'll make changes to them.

and yeah I've seen aquarium like stages in the past games, So that could be nice especially with the idea of it leaking if they chose that as a stage to bring back. I'll always really like that doa4 stage with the cars driving past.
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
YIKES. I love my wetness & dirt effects, but damn, that looks so weird and overdone ugh...

It also looks weird that it is not covering the entire body but just applied to certain spots. There's nothing on the neck, there's nothing on the skin under the arms. :/

Well, they will probably/hopefully be tweaking that, because, as Jade said, the wetness effect is still missing. Sweating like this Diego's shirt should be looking drenched like this:

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and yeah I've seen aquarium like stages in the past games, So that could be nice especially with the idea of it leaking if they chose that as a stage to bring back. I'll always really like that doa4 stage with the cars driving past.

The Las Vegas stage? Yeah that one was cool. All older stages were cool. XD I hope it is true that Aerial Gardens is back. That stage was the best stage ever.
 

werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
If one is unsure if a male character is meant to be a male power fantasy or sexualized, simply ask yourself: Is the character attractive enough to work as a male model, could he be on the cover of a male swimwear catalogue? Then you got your answer.

Character designers/artists deliberately created these models, there is no coincidence like in nature. If a character is sexually attractive, they were deliberately sexualized by the character designer/artist.
This is an untenable standard. From what you're saying, if Kratos had a prettier face or something then suddenly he would jump to being "sexualized", but he isn't currently. However, given that Joe Manganiello basically looks like Kratos with hair and normal skin tone, and has been all over the place with modeling (he actually played a male stripper in a movie), I'm sure Kratos could find his niche, too. lol
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Given that men are also largely found attractive in formal attire (and also not off the table for modeling), we'd be saying that a guy in a suit is more sexualized than someone like Zack in his Muay Thai shorts or Zangief in wrestling briefs. But, a suit isn't exactly sexual. Or that because some people have a thing for girls in glasses, the mere act of creating a not-ugly female character with glasses is sexualizing them by default. It's just glasses.

I mean, I'm pretty sure Jann Lee is at least pretty enough to model, but we just put him in the not-sexualized category before. I don't think the mere act of creating a character that many would find attractive counts as sexualizing them. It really can't. Because there's no accounting for taste. There has to be something else on top of it.

In addition to having an open vest, Z.W.E.I forgot to button his pants for some reason, drawing attention to his crotch. Most definitely sexualized elements going on there. That's something beyond just being attractive or sexy. But, are we really going to say look how sexualized Kilik or Siegfried are despite their conceivably being pretty and fit enough to have a modeling career?
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I don't think anyone revealed thus far in DOA6, man or woman, has all that sexualized of a design. Rig and Helena are probably the closest, but there's nothing so over the top that it bears having a discussion or finger-wagging about. Certainly not to the extent of comparing anyone to a stripper. Hell, it's often a trope for male strippers to dress as police officers. But, my creating a policeman design isn't suddenly sexual by default. It'd be people bringing their own preferences and fetishes to the table and imposing it on the design.

TL;DR: A character being attractive/sexy =/= having a sexualized design. You can have a not-attractive character in a sexualized design or an attractive character in a not-sexualized design. They're two different (though maybe related) things.
 
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Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
From what you're saying, if Kratos had a prettier face then suddenly he would jump to being "sexualized"

Lol, another face would certainly help with his model career. But it is not just about the face. Several details add up for a person or a character to be considered traditionally attractive. Look for example at the body (let's ignore the ghostly skin tone and fat scars). Muscular body doesn't necessarily equal hot body. There are regular muscular bodies...

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...and then there are muscular bodies of model quality. They are not as bulky, they have the right shape and the right proportions:

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I mean, I'm pretty sure Jann Lee is at least pretty enough to model, but we just put him in the not-sexualized category before.

We put him in the non-sexualized category before not because his face is unattractive, but because not much else shows signs of the designer's intent to sexualize him (similarly to Zack). As you mentioned yourself, and there I fully agree, not every shirtless and muscular guy is sexualized. There's nothing particularly sexy about his costume for example. The pulled up waist and the big, puffy legs give him weird proportions and look actually a bit funny.
Clothing that sexualizes a character has a shape or form that accentuates the typical characteristics of the respective sex or has something that evokes sexual associations.

Character design was actually part of my studies and meanwhile I professionally work as a character and costume designer for a game studio of online games. I might not be able to properly explain myself here in relatively short time and small space, but there are actually character design tutorial books in which I was published, so everyone genuinely interested in the matter can take a look in there:

 
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werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
Truly shameless. lol

But, to wrap this up, I think that this is the main point of contention:
Clothing that sexualizes a character has a shape or form that accentuates the typical characteristics of the respective sex or has something that evokes sexual associations.
The latter half is what I've always worked with, while the former half covers so many different common everyday outfits that it would run counter to the latter half. Anything that's not a square burlap sack would contour to the form of the person wearing it, giving attention to their "characteristics". But, there'd be little sexual about it. And because pretty much every outfit would get caught up in the crossfire, it's not worth trying to put them in the same basket when we have more clear and gratuitous sexualization occurring on a regular basis. It may be clinical to say "we can see muscle/boob outline through the shirt, ergo we can discern their sex, ergo sexualization", but for purposes of discussion (and also seeing that many find Kasumi's and Helena's outfits to be "inadequate" despite their form-fitting and characteristic accentuating nature), it's not super helpful. It's not what people by-and-large are referring to when it comes to being sexualized.

The easiest example I can think of would be Cody Travers in SFV. In his default, he's wearing dress clothes. But, he's a big enough guy that in dress clothes, you can still see his...maleness, I guess. He's not androgynous. The tight fit of the shirt/vest isn't that different from Hayate's top.
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But, the same would go for real life as anyone who's watched Terry Crews in Brooklyn Nine-Nine could attest. Once you get to be so muscular, only so much can be hidden.
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But, why even bother to call attention to Cody's primary when his "story" outfit is a thing?
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My man couldn't even be bothered to get a real belt to hold the pants up. Indeed, the pants are baggier than Jann Lee's. lol

One of these defies logic and norms (not keeping your pants up, not wearing pants that fit) to evoke a more sexual nature, while on the other hand, apparently anyone that goes to the gym too often and has to attend a business meeting later would be sexualizing themselves in their attire no matter what they put on. Cody is attractive either way, but one of these outfits was meant to really nail that fact home. If you put Kratos in this outfit, despite him not having "model" musculature or a pretty face, he would become a more sexualized design when he is not currently, because he couldn't be arsed to keep his cow underwear from showing.

There's a difference between designing something that fits the situation or the setting and have it being attractive (Kasumi, Hayate, Diego, etc.) and going out of your way to put sexuality into the design (having shirt or pants buttons undone, the shirt exploding or something, things ripping in convenient places, etc.).

The start of all this was that people were pointing to Zack or Jann and saying that the guys look like strippers and are sexualized when the women aren't, when what they really were saying was the some of the guys are bare-chested, so some of the women should be bare-chested, too. And we all can agree that that's not quite how it works. lol
 
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SaihateDYNAMO

Well-Known Member
...There's a difference between designing something that fits the situation or the setting and have it being attractive (Kasumi, Hayate, Diego, etc.) and going out of your way to put sexuality into the design (having shirt or pants buttons undone, the shirt exploding or something, things ripping in convenient places, etc.).

The start of all this was that people were pointing to Zack or Jann and saying that the guys look like strippers and are sexualized when the women aren't, when what they really were saying was the some of the guys are bare-chested, so some of the women should be bare-chested, too. And we all can agree that that's not quite how it works. lol
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This post is perfection; you couldn't have said any of that better. I'm dead tired of people online saying that the male characters in this game are dressed like "strippers" just because they're shirtless and the women aren't (yet). The sexualization of an outfit is mainly based on its context. For the most part, their outfits fit the role considering they're literally FIGHTERS. Is it really that uncommon seeing shirtless dudes in a fight? OR... is the problem that they can't get off to them like they can with Tina and the gang's cleavage and pantsu? You decide :honoka:
 

NewWestFan

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
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This post is perfection; you couldn't have said any of that better. I'm dead tired of people online saying that the male characters in this game are dressed like "strippers" just because they're shirtless and the women aren't (yet). The sexualization of an outfit is mainly based on its context. For the most part, their outfits fit the role considering they're literally FIGHTERS. Is it really that uncommon seeing shirtless dudes in a fight? OR... is the problem that they can't get off to them like they can with Tina and the gang's cleavage and pantsu? You decide :honoka:
To be honest they're lucky Jann and Zack aren't dressed in vale tudo shorts with their bulges on display and nothing else but some handwraps. In the real world you don't want to wear something like a shirt or jacket into a fight, especially not around fighters that are trained in take downs and grapples. You're just asking to have a bad time layering up like that (Bayman would definitely like it if you wore as many layers as possible while fighting him though). As Jann and Zack are legitimate competitors in martial arts tournaments (More Jann than Zack there) optimal MMA attire involves making these fanservice cultists uncomfortable.
 

Fightaro

New Member
The discussion should definitely be allowed, and to my knowledge it is. The problem is it usually quickly devolves in politicization and outright name-calling. Once someone cries out SWJs, feminists etc. or personally attacks other forumers the chances on a reasonable discussion are pretty much dead. The other side of the argument will bring out crowbar and sledgehammer as well and it's going to get ugly soon.
That homophobic remark by the most recent discussion starter was the coffin nail for this discussion.



As somone who has family members working in a women's clinic I can reassure you that the vast majority of breast reductions happen because of serious health issues. Women suffer from severe back pain, due to the in some cases immense weight that they have to carry, or they partially lose or completely lose their breast tissue due to cancer.
Breast reductions due to Hollywood, if that is even a thing, are frankly a joke in comparison.

Oh yes, I know that people get them for medical reasons etc.
And most of them are due to medical reasons.
But they do happen in Hollywood, because once you're over a certain size you're basically regarded as being someone who '' can't be taken seriously '' ( and it's not even a very large size that we're talking about ).
Hollywood is like this with facial surgery and such too, but if you're well-endowed it's usually a complete death sentence for your acting career unless you don't want to only play '' big breasted bimbos '' for comedic effect.
Hence why I said that women are being dehumanized and demonized for how they were born.

People do judge you quite severely for being well-endowed in a VERY negative fashion, and a lot of the negative attitudes and dismissing of it on the internet is just another form of expression of that.
It's a quite common thing to hear amongst well-endowed women that they've had people suggest it in a not so very good way.
And I have personal friends who have experienced it and that I've talked to a lot about this and how it makes them feel to constantly read article after article and forum post after forum post about how '' horrible '' that the way that they were born apparently is and needs to be changed for them to be '' less ridicilous, more human, respectable, presentable etc etc ''. To the extent that they feel as if they're not even being regarded as people.
My friend literally had the doctor tell her that she should get one so that people would '' not think that she's a bimbo ''.

And the assumption that some people make that the sole reason why a well-endowed woman exists in a game for example is for sexual titilation is just yet another case of this. I am not saying that it isn't often the case that well-endowed women are used specifically for sex appeal, but I also think that people are very '' jumpy '' when it comes to it and make that assumption per default.
It's possible to even like a character such as Ivy or Rachel without it being a sexual thing, and it's possible to like a well-endowed female character for relatability or aesthetical reasons rather than sexual etc. But people jump to the assumption that it's purely for sexual reasons because it's both easier to dismiss people who like them as '' perverts '' and quite frankly because most of it I think is projection.
Because that's how they see it.

I just wish that people would perhaps stop and think about these things for a moment before being so dismissive and simplistic about it.
Because it does perpetuate a lot of shitty attitudes and hurtful notions.
I just wish that people overall were less shitty towards each other and more considerate of others.
Whether it be towards someone who is well-endowed, small-chested, large or skinny etc ( regardless of whether it's something that you're genetically born with or not ). Just be decent and respectful towards each other.
And so, perhaps people shouldn't insinuate that someone is a '' monster / monsterous '' for being well-endowed.

Long post, sorry xD. I feel strongly about this...
 
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Fightaro

New Member
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This post is perfection; you couldn't have said any of that better. I'm dead tired of people online saying that the male characters in this game are dressed like "strippers" just because they're shirtless and the women aren't (yet). The sexualization of an outfit is mainly based on its context. For the most part, their outfits fit the role considering they're literally FIGHTERS. Is it really that uncommon seeing shirtless dudes in a fight? OR... is the problem that they can't get off to them like they can with Tina and the gang's cleavage and pantsu? You decide :honoka:

I both agree and disagree with you.
The context of the costume is what makes me consider it '' fanservice '' and not consider it as such.
But '' realism '' in regards to an actual fight doesn't enter into the equation.
In the end of the day most of the male characters don't really wear realistic clothes for the situation either.
What they wear would be laughed out of an MMA ring or be taken advantage off of by an experienced fighter like crazy, and in the end the game isn't realistic in the slightest. It's not a simulator.
People should pretty much be as naked as possible xD ( or wear actual full armor, which no one does ).

What I think is '' fanservice '' and out of context is things like Halloween costumes or bikinis for example.
But I wouldn't say that Helena's dress is out of context, or Kasumis original costume.
Especially not when people run around wearing loads of loose fabrics all over the place and wearing glasses or face masks etc.
Nor does it really matter if a Ninja bodysuit is skimpy for that matter either, it's still an in context costume.
A maid or a nurse costume really isn't tho.
 
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