2PP Force-tech/Option select wall Oki

Trickster

New Member
Heyy, so I don't post much at all. I mostly just lurk, but I came across a little gem while in the lab today and felt like I had to share it. Especially since I was having a little trouble myself finding solid ground-game strats for Tengu.

Anyway, I found a way where if you end a wall combo with 6PPP, you can generally remain on the offense whether or not your opponent decides to tech roll.

As soon as you finish a wall combo with :6::P::P::P:, quickly do a neutral throw. This is so you don't have to worry about the timing of the next part.

As soon as the neutral throw's recovery ends, go for :2::P::P:. Make sure you delay the second :P: ever so slightly by at least 5 frames. Anything less than 5 frames will cause, the second :P: will miss in every scenario.

Scenario 1
: If your opponent decides to tech roll after hitting the wall, the first :P: won't hit. However, they must then deal with the second :P:. If it catches them by surprise, they'll get hit into a 16 frame stun, setting up more offense, like :P::K: into another wall hit for example.
Scenario 2: If your opponent tech rolls after being hit by the first :P:, this causes the second :P: to whiff. However, that doesn't really too much matter because you will be about +10, or less, depending on how you delayed it. +10 with wall advantage is pretty good.
Scenario 3: If your opponent decides not to get up at all, they'll eat both :P:s, which will force them up, leaving you at +21 with their back against the wall. They're at your mercy, lol.

Remember, for this setup to work, you have to delay the second :P: ever so slightly.

Finally, I do believe this set-up also works with :2::K::K:. If done this way, it eliminates the need to delay anything. I've not really done any extensive testing with this yet tho. Maybe tomorrow, I cuz I'm feeling kinda burned out right now, lol.
 
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Camel with 2 thumbs

Well-Known Member
what a timely post, i've been looking for wall shenanigans with nyo and this post pops up. I actually tried it out in training mode and in actual matches, and while it works great for people who tech roll or just like to lie on the ground to see what you do, it loses to wake up kick and other wake up reversals (ryu's spinny head thing, jann lee's handspring kick, etc)

After some experimentation, I'm pretty sure you can't truly force tech after a wall splat, so while you can force people up who don't tech roll or put them in a shitty situation after they tech roll, there is still the threat of the wake up reversal. I think the only way to remedy this is that if you've launched an opponent and their is a wall right behind them, use a move that ground bounces airborne opponents and then follow up with a move that force techs. The only characters i know off the top of my head who can do this are Nyo with 1pp, Marie rose with 64p, and lei fang with 2p+k. the opponent wont actually hit the wall so you lose out on damage; but you get to take away their opportunity for a reversal, which sometimes is more important than damage.
 

Trickster

New Member
Eh...
Not to sound arrogant, but I'm pretty convinced it shouldn't lose to wake-up kicks, as long as you do everything correctly...
I looked at the frames did the maths myself, and I'm pretty sure that if the opponent tries to WU-Kick the first 2P will always connect.
I even tested it against myself in training mode and was unable to WU-Kick...

Are you remembering to do the neutral throw after you connect with 6PPP to help with the timing of 2PP?

Are you sure you're getting the correct wall-hit? The kind of wall hit I'm referring to is the one where you've been hit into a wall a second time which makes you slump to the side. I think I should've made this clearer in the OP.
 

Camel with 2 thumbs

Well-Known Member
Eh...
Not to sound arrogant, but I'm pretty convinced it shouldn't lose to wake-up kicks, as long as you do everything correctly...
I looked at the frames did the maths myself, and I'm pretty sure that if the opponent tries to WU-Kick the first 2P will always connect.
I even tested it against myself in training mode and was unable to WU-Kick...

Are you remembering to do the neutral throw after you connect with 6PPP to help with the timing of 2PP?

Are you sure you're getting the correct wall-hit? The kind of wall hit I'm referring to is the one where you've been hit into a wall a second time which makes you slump to the side. I think I should've made this clearer in the OP.

so it's wallsplat, 6ppp, 5p+g for timing, then 2pp, got it, i'll try it out when i get home

just out of curiosity, what characters and stages are you testing this on? I ask because they are certain wall combos/post wall splat pseudo techs that only work on certain weight categories and certain walls. For example, there's a nyo wall combo that as far as i know only works on light weights and on the walls in the Depth stage, helena has a post wall splat force tech that only works on all the walls except for the DOA (daylight) stage and Sakura stage(some of the outside walls), etc.
 

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
This is definitely useful, so don't get my comment I'm about to type wrong, but what is usually her best option is to use 1PPP > P+K > 2T to either get additional damage or +frames on WU. There are definitely times where you have to use a 6PPP splat, though, or a 7KP since 1P comes out so slowly, but in general, having access to a ground throw leads to most of her best options utilizing the throws.
 

Trickster

New Member
This is definitely useful, so don't get my comment I'm about to type wrong, but what is usually her best option is to use 1PPP > P+K > 2T to either get additional damage or +frames on WU. There are definitely times where you have to use a 6PPP splat, though, or a 7KP since 1P comes out so slowly, but in general, having access to a ground throw leads to most of her best options utilizing the throws.

Ah yeah, I know about the groundthrow setup. It's great, but my one peeve about it is that if you land the ground throw, you then have to respect your opponent's wake-up options, meaning the tables could turn with them becoming the attacker.

The idea 6PPP setup was to negate your opponent's WU options entirely, kinda forcing then to stay on the defensive.

But yeab, I get what you're saying and generally speaking, 1PPP P+K 2T is prolly her best option.
 
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