Release 6++ Gameplay Overhaul - Skies Of Vengeance 4.1 hotfix

[raididiot]

@Rev_an : I could add a code section to apply the various changes to boss raidou and make blackout stance work differently so it wouldn't be annoying, etc...

Now, I'm not saying you should add blackout stance to the existing Raidou, but...

Would there even be a "good" way to balance that? It reminds me a lot of Hayabusa's teleport stance, now that I think about it (save for the fact that boss Raidou is intangible during the startup). The only thing I could think of would be to make him vulnerable during the laugh.

Are there existing commands to perform the moves as soon as the screen lights back up? Or would those need to be added manually? I can't think of all the options off the top of my head, but they're slightly higher damage (and higher risk) than Busa's.

I would absolutely love it, though. This dude is so slow, and giving him a way to get damage (or get in at all) without the enemy just block > throwing him would be nice.

Or, if that sounds terrible, adding that laugh animation as a taunt with the blackout removed would be awesome (does it even have an ending animation? It looks the same as his win pose).

EDIT: okay I just played that final mission legit like 15 times (god why do they make you play as hayate if you skip the cutscene), countering the blackout stance is easier than Hayabusa's teleports because you can just react to most of his options. He can:
- Fireball (he charges it while the screen is black, the sound he makes is the obvious giveaway)
- Drop attack (might be the exact same animation as hayabusa's ongyoin 8p)
- The K of his normal PPK chain
- Giant Swing combo throw
- Face grab offensive hold (for some reason he only performs it once the lights come back on unlike the fireball, making this the easiest counter ever, just duck and then throw)

Sometimes he appears behind you when he does any of these things but that rarely matters. Just block for the most part. If this were to somehow be implemented, I'd add his charge attack (the one rev added, 4p+k) to the list of things he can do, since it's like +24 on a full charge (guard break).

 

[Rev_an]

there's some footage of people using boss raidou around, between that and this hacked screenshot of blackout stance with a hurtbox https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/809548177707237406/1017201954797125713/unknown.png you can kinda tell what's up.

if we can turn off the screen darkening it probably looks real weird. adding some "teleport out" FX is potentially doable, but that still leaves the mechanical issues with it. i think the reasonable thing to do would be to hack up a bunch of stuff so it acted all the way like onyogoin but i don't remember how much startup is on the stance so there might not be a way to make that playable on both sides.

and that's all assuming anim swap technology that doesn't exist yet (regular raidou doesn't have the stance or the stance moves that I can tell, maybe we missed something but i doubt) that would probably require redelbe and complicate the installation process as previously mentioned

the other option is a separate playable boss raidou but i'd struggle to make a whole ass phase 4 to his kasumi, and the extra characters don't have command list entries so we'd have to add those by hand or else the game would crash a bunch in the menus if you tried to open the thing that doesn't exist or picked him in command training or combo challenge mode

 

[raididiot]

Okay, I have a question regarding animation swaps - they're not possible at the moment, right?

I'm mainly wondering because I assumed Honoka's dragon stance H+K (sweep) was an animation swap. In fact, a bunch of her dragon stance stuff looked kind of jittery and I assumed it was because you were manually swapping her anims/somehow applying Jann Lee's dragon stance to her. So I guess I'm just wrong on that?

Good info on that post though - so the answer seems basically like "complicate things on the dev side by having to hack the stance in/add another character" or "complicate things on the user side by needing more installation steps" or both. In either case, I'm fine with just not having blackout stance for now.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to one of the videos of someone using boss Raidou, would you?

 

[Rev_an]

Okay, I have a question regarding animation swaps - they're not possible at the moment, right?

I'm mainly wondering because I assumed Honoka's dragon stance H+K (sweep) was an animation swap. In fact, a bunch of her dragon stance stuff looked kind of jittery and I assumed it was because you were manually swapping her anims/somehow applying Jann Lee's dragon stance to her. So I guess I'm just wrong on that?

Good info on that post though - so the answer seems basically like "complicate things on the dev side by having to hack the stance in/add another character" or "complicate things on the user side by needing more installation steps" or both. In either case, I'm fine with just not having blackout stance for now.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to one of the videos of someone using boss Raidou, would you?

yeah anim swapping isn't really a thing. any wholly new moves I created inputs for in 6++ you could also access with cheat engine and an unmodified game if you knew what to control+F for in memory and what to change it to like this doa 4 tina bt 8k i temporarily enabled in doa 5.

i'm not sure what you mean about the jitter, maybe there isn't in-engine animation blending commands on it, or maybe TN left it unfinished and there's some skeletal mismatching I didn't notice.

redelbe can swap animation files same way as models and UI elements, but we don't know anything about the file format or how to edit or convert them so the thing honoka does on 1kkpp where she's floating off the ground a little because lisa is taller than her and TN didn't finish their port would be way worse and unfixable for anything I could do with that... assuming it would even work online and people could handle a more convoluted installation process, and we could get away with distributing animation files like that, and all the face expression and sound effect calls are named alike for when i rewrite the part of the character data that controls what the game does with the animation files, and on and on.

maybe i can make some super fucked up offline only thing with animation stuff but i wouldn't even start on that for over a year.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

I was about to suggest adding overkill back, the ryona gang got us covered already, but unfortunately Leifang exists Lmao https://files.catbox.moe/4admay.mp4

 

[Rev_an]

I was about to suggest adding overkill back, the ryona gang got us covered already, but unfortunately Leifang exists Lmao https://files.catbox.moe/4admay.mp4

isn't that just cheatengine shit? we can't really use "make the round not actually end". Maybe i could distribute something that removes some slowmo finish flag and that would synchronize correctly across clients but I'm not aware of that being possible or part of the character data that we're currently altering.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

isn't that just cheatengine shit? we can't really use "make the round not actually end". Maybe i could distribute something that removes some slowmo finish flag and that would synchronize correctly across clients but I'm not aware of that being possible or part of the character data that we're currently altering.

ye that would require different modding than moveset editing, but besides CE shit, it can be hex edited into the main executable

DOA6 overkill inputs enabled (slowmo & camera unchanged)
(first, unpack DOA6.exe with Steamless https://github.com/atom0s/Steamless)

C6 80 3F 01 00 00 01 4C 8B 05 7C 1B CD 00
->
C6 80 3F 01 00 00 00 4C 8B 05 7C 1B CD 00

38 48 32 0F 94 C0 48 83 C4 48 C3 48 8D 0D D5 4D 5D 00
->
38 48 32 30 C0 90 48 83 C4 48 C3 48 8D 0D D5 4D 5D 00

btw the old DOA5LR round end behavior still exists in Survival Mode, but the CT didn't have it

 

[Rev_an]

ye that would require different modding than moveset editing, but besides CE shit, it can be hex edited into the main executable

DOA6 overkill inputs enabled (slowmo & camera unchanged)
(first, unpack DOA6.exe with Steamless https://github.com/atom0s/Steamless)

C6 80 3F 01 00 00 01 4C 8B 05 7C 1B CD 00
->
C6 80 3F 01 00 00 00 4C 8B 05 7C 1B CD 00

38 48 32 0F 94 C0 48 83 C4 48 C3 48 8D 0D D5 4D 5D 00
->
38 48 32 30 C0 90 48 83 C4 48 C3 48 8D 0D D5 4D 5D 00

btw the old DOA5LR round end behavior still exists in Survival Mode, but the CT didn't have it

yeah i knew about survival mode.

seems like there's some camera shit on normal round ends we'd also need to disable.

 

[Rikuto]

Now, I'm not saying you should add blackout stance to the existing Raidou, but...

Would there even be a "good" way to balance that? It reminds me a lot of Hayabusa's teleport stance, now that I think about it (save for the fact that boss Raidou is intangible during the startup). The only thing I could think of would be to make him vulnerable during the laugh.

Are there existing commands to perform the moves as soon as the screen lights back up? Or would those need to be added manually? I can't think of all the options off the top of my head, but they're slightly higher damage (and higher risk) than Busa's.

I would absolutely love it, though. This dude is so slow, and giving him a way to get damage (or get in at all) without the enemy just block > throwing him would be nice.

Or, if that sounds terrible, adding that laugh animation as a taunt with the blackout removed would be awesome (does it even have an ending animation? It looks the same as his win pose).

EDIT: okay I just played that final mission legit like 15 times (god why do they make you play as hayate if you skip the cutscene), countering the blackout stance is easier than Hayabusa's teleports because you can just react to most of his options. He can:
- Fireball (he charges it while the screen is black, the sound he makes is the obvious giveaway)
- Drop attack (might be the exact same animation as hayabusa's ongyoin 8p)
- The K of his normal PPK chain
- Giant Swing combo throw
- Face grab offensive hold (for some reason he only performs it once the lights come back on unlike the fireball, making this the easiest counter ever, just duck and then throw)

Sometimes he appears behind you when he does any of these things but that rarely matters. Just block for the most part. If this were to somehow be implemented, I'd add his charge attack (the one rev added, 4p+k) to the list of things he can do, since it's like +24 on a full charge (guard break).

You tie it to meter and make Raidou the sole character in the game to use meter.

Because blackout isn't fair in the slightest, and if it was fair, it wouldn't even be close to fun.

 

[Rev_an]

You tie it to meter and make Raidou the sole character in the game to use meter.

Because blackout isn't fair in the slightest, and if it was fair, it wouldn't even be close to fun.

making meter display correctly for only one character might be a little tricky, but yeah, you can't let a player do that to the screen all the time and reworking it to be fair would defeat the purpose.

 

[Miss Trunchbull]

Hello, I recently came across this mod, and it inspired me to pick up and play DOA6 once more.

I love how you guys brought back some moves that are very important to each character, such as Christie's Dokuja-Fujin and Ayane's DOA4 launchers and moves.

Would it be possible to also bring back Helena's DOA4 moves/strings (PP2KP, PP2KK, PP2K2) as well?

 

[Rob]

Christie this, Helena that, Ayane whatever. Jesus Christ are these the only characters in DOA lmao

 

[Project Bokuho]

Christie this, Helena that, Ayane whatever. Jesus Christ are these the only characters in DOA lmao

You forgot Richard Miller, Keith Martin, Robert Baxter, Alan Dunaway, Wesley Lambert, Giorgio Bruno and Evan Bernard.

 

[Rob]

I'm more of a fan of HotD with the pump shotgun.

BTW wasn't targeted at the new guy who posted, just hilarious how as soon as this mod comes out and after most of the talk surrounds Christie/Helena.

 

[Rev_an]

Hello, I recently came across this mod, and it inspired me to pick up and play DOA6 once more.

I love how you guys brought back some moves that are very important to each character, such as Christie's Dokuja-Fujin and Ayane's DOA4 launchers and moves.

Would it be possible to also bring back Helena's DOA4 moves/strings (PP2KP, PP2KK, PP2K2) as well?

pp2k is -9 on block and adding a string mixup to respect there is probably a lot. i think those moves are used elsewhere but if not i can make it a hit confirm or something to reduce the impact on balance/sit on them if it turns out she needs the buff someday.

 

[raididiot]

This is what I meant by Honoka's transition into DS seeming "jittery" (++ on the left, look closely):

Snap GIF | Gfycat

Watch and share Snap GIFs on Gfycat

gfycat.com

It turns out that this only applies to ppp, but 6H+K is unaffected. But, uh - it's not exactly a big deal.

I've actually been thinking up some other Honoka stuff.

So, Dragon Stance is a funny thing. Doesn't quite work like the person she copied it from. Instead of picking whether to go into DS or not, you're just kind of forced to either go into it or not into it depending on if the hit connects. For Jann Lee, it doesn't matter at all if the hit lands, is blocked, or misses entirely - you can go into DS anyway by holding 4 at the end of the move (or not go into DS by not pressing 4).

For Honoka, hit lands > DS, or the hit does not land > get punished to high hell. Can this be overridden with Jann's behavior? Pick whether to go into DS or not? Admittedly she's only got two moves that lead into it as far as I know, 6H+K and PPP.

And one last thing related to it - can 6H+K get a stun that doesn't make the enemy immediately fall over? 90% of the time you won't land PPP, and if you land 6H+K, they usually fall over before you can DS P+K or DS 4PPP.

Also I just learned this yesterday and I thought it was a part of the mod, but it's not - if you're in Dokuritsu-ho (flamingo stance) K and press 4 as it ends, you go into Honoka's Raidou stance (works on block, too). Doesn't say anything about it in the command list as far as I can tell.

 

[Rev_an]

This is what I meant by Honoka's transition into DS seeming "jittery" (++ on the left, look closely):

Snap GIF | Gfycat

Watch and share Snap GIFs on Gfycat

gfycat.com

It turns out that this only applies to ppp, but 6H+K is unaffected. But, uh - it's not exactly a big deal.

I've actually been thinking up some other Honoka stuff.

So, Dragon Stance is a funny thing. Doesn't quite work like the person she copied it from. Instead of picking whether to go into DS or not, you're just kind of forced to either go into it or not into it depending on if the hit connects. For Jann Lee, it doesn't matter at all if the hit lands, is blocked, or misses entirely - you can go into DS anyway by holding 4 at the end of the move (or not go into DS by not pressing 4).

For Honoka, hit lands > DS, or the hit does not land > get punished to high hell. Can this be overridden with Jann's behavior? Pick whether to go into DS or not? Admittedly she's only got two moves that lead into it as far as I know, 6H+K and PPP.

And one last thing related to it - can 6H+K get a stun that doesn't make the enemy immediately fall over? 90% of the time you won't land PPP, and if you land 6H+K, they usually fall over before you can DS P+K or DS 4PPP.

Also I just learned this yesterday and I thought it was a part of the mod, but it's not - if you're in Dokuritsu-ho (flamingo stance) K and press 4 as it ends, you go into Honoka's Raidou stance (works on block, too). Doesn't say anything about it in the command list as far as I can tell.

from my patchnotes:

honoka
removed knockback from 214p+k
air grab from crane stance
dragon stance h+k low sweep, one-hit forceup
8P H to dragon stance
1kkpp - lisa moves, knockdown bound
6pk followup 4[6p] just-frame only
ds k4 to crane
adjusted followup interval. transition now -1 on block instead of +a billion
bokuho p+k
~12i launcher, gives 2p+k 46p and 6kk/6k2k, weight allowing
throw speed buff removed (why the hell did they make her a grappler)
hurtbox adjusment means DS 4ppp might work more often

this is missing 66p+k h -> DS and bkh 214p that christie FS move

6h+k DS p+k, DS 4ppp and DS h+k should be working on counter-hit or if they're already in stun, that's the hurtbox adjustment at the bottom there, if you punish with 6h+k for some reason then waiting slightly will let you try to forceup with the sweep, idk if that's fight worthy but it's slick design and it's why i made the sweep be a true forcetech.

the hitch on ppp -> DS might be related to the thing making heichu canceling into DS work, i'll look into it... someday maybe. One of the speculative projects might make the method i used obsolete so it could get fixed for "free" if that other stuff comes together and passes function test and so on.

DS only working on-hit seems like an intentional choice to me which is why i put the new DS cancel onto heichu which is also only on-hit, and my game design instincts are saying not to fuck with that.

honoka has enough for now, if i was adding stuff with he current technology i'd be looking into adding things like crane roll cancelling into bokuho if it looks right (i tried and abandoned crane roll into handstand because her handstand stance is too glitchy and useless) and maybe some extra things to do with ducking or bokuho in some order. maybe the move ID associated with bt 8 or bt 9 would make her stand from bokuho into bt, the way it does when you L3 in command training.

 

[raididiot]

She has an unused handstand stance?! You wouldn't happen to have a picture of it, would you? Preferably in the default outfit

 

[Rev_an]

She has an unused handstand stance?! You wouldn't happen to have a picture of it, would you? Preferably in the default outfit

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/488735665065033728/1018692830409007174/honoka.mp4

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/488735665065033728/1018710222220578917/honoka_HS_PP.mp4

she has that lisa 1kkpp thing with just the pp part out of handstand (like you can use an unmodified game and use cheat engine to get into the stance and PP will do that and) kkkk and a throw which doesn't have animation data or files unfortunately.

the y-axis of her in the handstand is wrong so it's probably unusable, people mostly don't notice on 1kkpp that she floats a little and also that string is real bad so there's no reason to do it.

 

[Sotherius]

I decided to keep my doa 6 in its vanilla version.

I normally don't get attached to mods, and this is no different, It feels wrong to play a modded version.

I support what revan is doing for the community and if it is revitalizing doa 6 in some form, great, is just a me problem